The Ford Barn

H. L. Chauvin · 05-25-2015, 03:50 PM

Hi Cape,

The fan belt non-alignment concern appears to be, "as you very well stated above", that the fan belt centerline is approximately a total of 3/8" out of alignment such that when considering all three(3) pulleys:

1. The water pump pulley is located approximately 3/16" too far forward; the generator pulley is located approximately 3/16" too far rearward; and the crankshaft pulley is approximately centered between these other (2) pulleys where these two other pulley centerlines are located 3/8" apart.

2. Hence, the fan belt is trying to pull the water pump pulley to the rear; the fan belt is trying to pull the generator pulley forward; and the fan belt is trying to pull the crankshaft pulley forward on the passenger side and trying to pull the crankshaft rearward on the driver's side.

3. I'm starting to think by now that per reply no. 19, paragraph L., your water pump was delivered with the 5 Bunnies and the water pumps stays.

4. Something to think about is:

A. Rather than move the generator forward 3/8", how about just 9/32" to be centered between the crankshaft pulley and the water pump pulley.

B. The center line of the generator pulley would be located equidistant between the crankshaft pulley and the water pump pulley; where,

C. The offset on both sides of the generator pulley would be a mere 3/32".

5. If belt hits bolt head, try grinding down head ......... or buy two (2) narrow belts ....... keeping one for a spare

Let us know..

Cape Codder · 05-25-2015, 10:12 PM

I thought that we would of heard from some of the engine rebuilders as far as the location of the crank shaft pulley (how far it should be out toward the front) and where measured from. Also I thought they would comment on how far the water pump should be out. I would really like to know about the crank pulley as this would give a basis for the other measurements.

ericr · 05-26-2015, 08:06 AM

I looked through the prior posts and I cannot find a comment which would address whether each and every Model "A" crank uniformly sticks out in front to a precise distance....is there anyway his crank can be slightly too far out?

Tom Wesenberg · 05-26-2015, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericr

I looked through the prior posts and I cannot find a comment which would address whether each and every Model "A" crank uniformly sticks out in front to a precise distance....is there anyway his crank can be slightly too far out?

Yes, if the key cocked during installation it might be holding the pulley forward. It would be worth it to remove the bolt and check to see if the end of the crank is just a hair lower than the pulley surface.

When I go out today I'll measure the distance from the pulley groove center to some other point on the block.

ericr · 05-26-2015, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Yes, if the key cocked during installation it might be holding the pulley forward. It would be worth it to remove the bolt and check to see if the end of the crank is just a hair lower than the pulley surface.

When I go out today I'll measure the distance from the pulley groove center to some other point on the block.

I hope someone can solve this conundrum. I would think the crank/pulley would be the starting point. He has tried several original generators with no improvement, apparently with different pulleys thereon.

I get the reading a water pump can be fiddled with to allow for pulley travel. The thing is, since there is the longest belt distance between the water pump and the crank, one would think the issue is the pump pulley sticks out too far, but he has addressed that.

H. L. Chauvin · 05-26-2015, 11:26 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

1. After posting my two (2) measured distances from my two (2) original water pump mounting flanges to the centerlines of the water pump pulleys, this very kind gentleman sent me a PM indicating that the centerline of "his" re-built water pump pulley is 3/16" too far forward from the flat surface of his water pump flange when compared to my measurements.

2. In one of his previous above replies he states that with a straight edge resting solidly on one of his pulleys, he confirmed that his water pump "pulley" is 3/16" too far forward of his crankshaft pulley; however, this appears to imply that if it were possible to move his water pump pulley "3/16" rearward, his water pump pulley would be perfectly aligned with his crankshaft pulley.

3. If the centerline of the water pump pulley were relocated 3/16" to the rear, (i.e., moved rearward to be aligned with his aligned crankshaft pulley), the centerline of his generator pulley would then be 3/16" too far to the rear.

4. When I rebuilt my (2) water pumps with SS shafts, the half-moon key had to be dressed and filed down on both sides to make it fit deeper into the SS keyway, thus the fan and pulley could move further rearward ........... way back on a previous reply someone already suggested same to him.

5. He left me his phone number and asked if I would call him ..... I'll call him this afternoon and keep in touch.

H. L. Chauvin · 05-26-2015, 02:58 PM

Just spoke to him ................ very nice and very intelligent gentleman.

He is going on a fairly long Model A trip and just wanted to correct his fan belt's 3/8" misalignment ......... cannot disagree with his concern.

He has reviewed another one of his water pumps with allows the center line of fan pulley to be positioned 3/16" further to the rear, which will line up with his crankshaft pulley.

He will soon try same ..... appears he can slightly adjust generator for almost perfect alignment.

Never giving up is always so very admirable.

redmodelt · 05-26-2015, 06:46 PM

Unless the impeller is staked to the shaft, why not just press it down 3/16 of an inch then grind the end of the shaft off as needed not to hit the stop in the head. This would move shaft and pulley back.
Unless he has the type with the cartridge for the front bearing mounted on the shaft, I then would look to see if it could be pressed in more for the amount needed the amount needed along with pressing the impeller down some.

05-25-2015, 03:50 PM	#21
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: STILL Looking For A Solution ! ! ! Hi Cape, The fan belt non-alignment concern appears to be, "as you very well stated above", that the fan belt centerline is approximately a total of 3/8" out of alignment such that when considering all three(3) pulleys: 1. The water pump pulley is located approximately 3/16" too far forward; the generator pulley is located approximately 3/16" too far rearward; and the crankshaft pulley is approximately centered between these other (2) pulleys where these two other pulley centerlines are located 3/8" apart. 2. Hence, the fan belt is trying to pull the water pump pulley to the rear; the fan belt is trying to pull the generator pulley forward; and the fan belt is trying to pull the crankshaft pulley forward on the passenger side and trying to pull the crankshaft rearward on the driver's side. 3. I'm starting to think by now that per reply no. 19, paragraph L., your water pump was delivered with the 5 Bunnies and the water pumps stays. 4. Something to think about is: A. Rather than move the generator forward 3/8", how about just 9/32" to be centered between the crankshaft pulley and the water pump pulley. B. The center line of the generator pulley would be located equidistant between the crankshaft pulley and the water pump pulley; where, C. The offset on both sides of the generator pulley would be a mere 3/32". 5. If belt hits bolt head, try grinding down head ......... or buy two (2) narrow belts ....... keeping one for a spare Let us know..

05-25-2015, 10:12 PM	#22
Cape Codder Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,262	Re: STILL Looking For A Solution ! ! ! I thought that we would of heard from some of the engine rebuilders as far as the location of the crank shaft pulley (how far it should be out toward the front) and where measured from. Also I thought they would comment on how far the water pump should be out. I would really like to know about the crank pulley as this would give a basis for the other measurements.

05-26-2015, 08:06 AM	#23
ericr Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,542	Re: STILL Looking For A Solution ! ! ! I looked through the prior posts and I cannot find a comment which would address whether each and every Model "A" crank uniformly sticks out in front to a precise distance....is there anyway his crank can be slightly too far out?

05-26-2015, 11:26 AM	#26
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: STILL Looking For A Solution ! ! ! Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) 1. After posting my two (2) measured distances from my two (2) original water pump mounting flanges to the centerlines of the water pump pulleys, this very kind gentleman sent me a PM indicating that the centerline of "his" re-built water pump pulley is 3/16" too far forward from the flat surface of his water pump flange when compared to my measurements. 2. In one of his previous above replies he states that with a straight edge resting solidly on one of his pulleys, he confirmed that his water pump "pulley" is 3/16" too far forward of his crankshaft pulley; however, this appears to imply that if it were possible to move his water pump pulley "3/16" rearward, his water pump pulley would be perfectly aligned with his crankshaft pulley. 3. If the centerline of the water pump pulley were relocated 3/16" to the rear, (i.e., moved rearward to be aligned with his aligned crankshaft pulley), the centerline of his generator pulley would then be 3/16" too far to the rear. 4. When I rebuilt my (2) water pumps with SS shafts, the half-moon key had to be dressed and filed down on both sides to make it fit deeper into the SS keyway, thus the fan and pulley could move further rearward ........... way back on a previous reply someone already suggested same to him. 5. He left me his phone number and asked if I would call him ..... I'll call him this afternoon and keep in touch.

05-26-2015, 02:58 PM	#27
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: STILL Looking For A Solution ! ! ! Just spoke to him ................ very nice and very intelligent gentleman. He is going on a fairly long Model A trip and just wanted to correct his fan belt's 3/8" misalignment ......... cannot disagree with his concern. He has reviewed another one of his water pumps with allows the center line of fan pulley to be positioned 3/16" further to the rear, which will line up with his crankshaft pulley. He will soon try same ..... appears he can slightly adjust generator for almost perfect alignment. Never giving up is always so very admirable.

05-26-2015, 06:46 PM	#28
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,341	Re: STILL Looking For A Solution ! ! ! Unless the impeller is staked to the shaft, why not just press it down 3/16 of an inch then grind the end of the shaft off as needed not to hit the stop in the head. This would move shaft and pulley back. Unless he has the type with the cartridge for the front bearing mounted on the shaft, I then would look to see if it could be pressed in more for the amount needed the amount needed along with pressing the impeller down some.