New member, 39 p/u needs brake drums

[KDub]

Hello all.
I just bought a 39 pickup. In general it looks to be in great shape, but the brakes are not. I'm taking the drums to the machinist, but they are so deeply grooved I'm sure they're history.
Searching here it looks like they show up occasionally. I thought I'd throw out a hail mary. It's my first old Ford, so I'm on a steep learning curve. Currently I have a 48 CJ2a and a 67 Datsun 1600 roadster. I'll add photos as soon as I am able.
Iola WI is this weekend, and I read a recommendation for J&G brake in IL. I'll be reaching out to them asap too. Any first hand experience with J&G?
Ken

[ActionYobbo]

39 sedan pickup is built on a sedan frame so all the sedan running gear will fit your pickip.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by ActionYobbo

39 sedan pickup is built on a sedan frame so all the sedan running gear will fit your pickip.

This is the second time you have mentioned a "sedan pickup". I've heard of "sedan deliveries", but never a sedan pickup. Or did Ford make a line of Fordor pickup trucks that I am unaware of?

[ActionYobbo]

Originally Posted by tubman

This is the second time you have mentioned a "sedan pickup". I've heard of "sedan deliveries", but never a sedan pickup. Or did Ford make a line of Fordor pickup trucks that I am unaware of?

Using ford terms for comercial cars as they did to differentiate the product lines.
The sedan pickup and sedan delivery were included in the comercial vehicle line but were never called trucks untll after ww2. Trucks have straight frame rails sedans do not. I point this out to be helpful as his pickup takes car parts not truck parts. I have a truck and there is hardly any parts that are interchangable between a truck and a car based pickup. So looking for sedan brake parts will get the op what he needs where looking for truck brake parts is a crap shoot. I have spent hours tracking down parts for my truck including calling the vendor to confirm they are truck parts only to have sedan parts arrive. Most pickup parts are 2/3 the size of truck parts. My tail gate is 54 inches wide where a pickup is 48 inches. They look similar but the only parts on the cab that are common between the pickup and the truck are the grill, hood and the windshield every other panel is different. Knowing what base its built on makes it easier to find parts. Gas tank in the rear is a sedan no matter what the outside apearance is. Gas tank under the seat is a truck no matter what the outside apearance is.

Ford used these names for a reason. Same as any pre 70 inline 6 mustang engine code says its a Falcon. Even the 1974 maverick inline 200 engine code is falcon

[tubman]

uhh... OK.

[KDub]

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I'll take all the knowledge you can shovel my way.

I hauled this truck to my cabin/shop last week. Came home, ordered wheel cylinders, shoes, etc and pulled it apart Saturday. The process is a bit disjointed since it's about 3 hours from home. Plus my phone/internet access is spotty at best up there.

The biggest problem is I'm a novice mechanic, so most of my projects take a lot of time as I sit and stare at the thing.
Ken

[KDub]

Looks like I better get busy posting.
I had a PM about some drums, but I can't respond. Yet.
If I'm lucky, my drums aren't as bad as I think. But even being an amateur, I'm pretty sure.
I'm in WI, and hoping I can find something close -ish.

I won't know how serious this is until the professionals get their eyes on them. May be a stupid question. Are there markings on these drums about minimum thickness?
Ken

[KDub]

The good news is that the truck has been well cared for. Very little to no rust. The brake lines had been replaced at some point, and everything came apart with relative ease.
The grease seals were bad, and all 4 drums were caked inside. I think the wheel cylinders may have been okay, but I replaced them and the rubber lines.

[corvette8n]

https://shop.efv8.org/collections/ford-books?page=1

Early Ford V8 club website has a couple of books you might be interested in.

[KDub]

Thanks!
My next post was to ask about service manuals or other books to consider. You read my mind.

[19Fordy]

Ken: Normally, .060 in. oversize is the max. amount drums should be turned. That drum ID measurement would then be 12.060.

[KDub]

The drums were obviously deeply grooved before the previous owner installed shoes. Matching grooves lead to a few choice words and phrases trying to remove them. (Sorry Mom!)
A buddy has offered to measure them, but the grooves are monumental. It'll at least be a start.
More info to come.
Ken

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by ActionYobbo

Using ford terms for comercial cars as they did to differentiate the product lines.
The sedan pickup and sedan delivery were included in the comercial vehicle line but were never called trucks untll after ww2. Trucks have straight frame rails sedans do not. I point this out to be helpful as his pickup takes car parts not truck parts. I have a truck and there is hardly any parts that are interchangable between a truck and a car based pickup. So looking for sedan brake parts will get the op what he needs where looking for truck brake parts is a crap shoot. I have spent hours tracking down parts for my truck including calling the vendor to confirm they are truck parts only to have sedan parts arrive. Most pickup parts are 2/3 the size of truck parts. My tail gate is 54 inches wide where a pickup is 48 inches. They look similar but the only parts on the cab that are common between the pickup and the truck are the grill, hood and the windshield every other panel is different. Knowing what base its built on makes it easier to find parts. Gas tank in the rear is a sedan no matter what the outside apearance is. Gas tank under the seat is a truck no matter what the outside apearance is.

Ford used these names for a reason. Same as any pre 70 inline 6 mustang engine code says its a Falcon. Even the 1974 maverick inline 200 engine code is falcon

I would be careful ordering parts for your truck using the term 'truck'. Unless I am mistaken, yours having a tailgate, and therefore a pickup box would indicate a 122" tonner express. These tonners are something of a hybrid ford. The steering, front suspension, king pins, brakes and most any mechanical parts up front are shared with the commercial vehicles and cars. A notable exception being the front drums having the larger 5 lugs on 6 7/8" pattern. The rear brakes are similar to the big trucks and of course share the 6 7/8 lug pattern. Rear axle is peculiar to the 122" tonners.Unlike the 1 1/2 ton big trucks the tonner's frame rails are not straight. The have a hump above the rear axle that rises 2 1/2". Napa and many other parts suppliers correctly list their parts as '122" truck'. Just a heads up as I daily drove a '38 tonner for many years and currently own two later 122" trucks.

[KDub]

Thanks for that information.
That's my concern. Just not knowing exactly what I have. The terminology is different. As already noted by ActionYobbo.
It has the wide bolt pattern hub/wheels.
Thankfully the brake parts I ordered from Midwest Early Ford worked. I searched, ordered quickly and hoped what I bought was correct.

I haven't found the serial # / "VIN" stamp on the frame yet. But I've spent about 10 hours total with the vehicle. Certainly need more research time. That's why I'm here.

[TJ]

There should also be a number on a flat surface of the transmission just above the inspection plate on the bellhousing. That number should match the number on the frame, The frame number should be on the top of the left frame rail somewhere between the steering box mount and the front crossmember.

[KDub]

Is there an online registry to decode the serial number?

I looked in that area and didn't see anything. My better half frequently accuses me of boy looking, so there may be some truth there.
I'll keep looking.
I may need to just climb into the engine bay. Short stature and old man eyes.

[KDub]

Now I'm just padding my post count. ��

I sent a message to the folks at J&G Brakes. He said they are 7 weeks out for refurbishment and relining drums.

[cas3]

you can find the serial numbers at Vanpelts Sales. Best source for parts and info on these old Fords. Happy motoring

[KDub]

Thanks for that info.
Ken

[tubman]

Don't expect the serial number to give you any more information than the model year the vehicle was produced, and by inference, when during that year. It is just a serial number, and has no additional information like later VIN numbers do.

[Brian]

37-39 pass car and pickup drums will fit your vehicle, just to 'simplify' your search for replacements

[KDub]

That's right. I forgot that nuance. Shoot.
I was looking at the Model info on VanPelt's site, but the drawings are too blurry to make out.
Any idea what publication those drawings are from.

[KDub]

Okay, first photo.

[Newc]

Modern drum turning is limited to 12.060. Only .030 per side. Hard standard to meet. There was a post about a relining of drums. Oversize friction material no longer available ? Do a topic search. Newc

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by KDub

Okay, first photo.

[ActionYobbo]

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Originally Posted by KDub

Okay, first photo.

That looks amazing.

[tubman]

I've said this before : The more I see of "Barrel-Nose" pickups, the better I like 'em.

[GB SISSON]

Beautiful Truck! Are the fenders a little darker tone than the cab and bed? With the green striping it is a very tasteful paint job in my opinion.

[KDub]

Thanks. I'm impressed with her so far. I just have no history. The guy I bought it from purchased it a year ago as a parts truck! Realized it was too nice to part out. Got it running but is working on hot rod early 40's truck.

Yes, a slightly darker green on the fenders. Here's a shot in her new living quarters.

I bought it for my better half who has dubbed her "Sally"

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by KDub

Thanks. I'm impressed with her so far. I just have no history. The guy I bought it from purchased it a year ago as a parts truck! Realized it was too nice to part out. Got it running but is working on hot rod early 40's truck.

Yes, a slightly darker green on the fenders. Here's a shot in her new living quarters.

I bought it for my better half who has dubbed her "Sally"

[cas3]

Gotta agree with tubman, In the past I did not get too excited about the barrel nose trucks, But that one is darn nice !

[GB SISSON]

Nice shop for a backdrop. And the somewhat larger than stock tires are a nice touch too.

[KDub]

No luck at the Iola swap meet. I have a couple possible leads, but still searching.

Probably going to take them for refurbish/ reline but they are 7-8 weeks out for drums. It would be nice to get her back on the road.

Ken

[19Fordy]

KDub: Here's a company that relines brake drums with cast iron liners.
https://www.jgrelining.com/

Here's more info about this company"
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ne+brake+drums

[KDub]

They are somewhat local to me, so probably a great option.
I'll let you know how it goes. I'd really love to keep the original wheels.
Ken

[51504bat]

Last I knew they were 7-8 weeks out.

[DavidG]

As it obvious in the sales brochure shown in #4 above, in the world of Ford nomenclature, there never was a sedan pickup, sedan delivery, yes, but not sedan pickup. You will save yourself time and frustration if you stick to Ford's own terminology.

[Bored&Stroked]

Your drums are not 'Wide 5' are they? The rims don't appear to be, but maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me? If they are 5 x 5.5 rims, then you can buy brand new drums from Bolling Brothers.

[KDub]

They are "wide 5" hubs/wheels.
The wheels are in such great shape, I'd really like to keep them.
Ya gotta pay to play, right?.?
Ken

[ActionYobbo]

Commercial car?

[KDub]

Photo proof. Pretty aren't they? They look so young because they were heavily covered in grease.

[blucar]

Good '38-39 wide 5 drums are scarce as hens teeth, I would suggest that you save yourself a lot of wasted time and money, by sending your drums to Jgrelining to have them restore the drums and properly reline the shoes. J&G Relining have an excellent reputation...$$$$$ but done right the first time.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by KDub

Photo proof. Pretty aren't they? They look so young because they were heavily covered in grease.

[Mart]

Ok, lets say you are stuck in the desert. In the condition they are in now, would they get you to safety? Would they work "ok"? Lets get real world here. Taking on the idea that they are not available new and are expensive and a long delay to have them refurbished, can they not be just be pressed back into use as they are? What is your intended driving usage going to be? Just tootling around town or long high speed heavy traffic duty? The car could remain is use with care while better replacements might be sought. The practise of skimming drums is predominantly an American thing. In my experience if parts are serviceable, then let them continue in service.

These cars came from an era of make do and mend. See if that can be applied in this case.

Having everything instantly available at the click of a mouse does not apply in some cases, sometimes you have to follow another path.

Mart.

[tubman]

I'm with "Mart". When we were kids, we'd tell each other that those grooves just increased the effective braking area of the drum.

[Bored&Stroked]

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Also, one doesn't have to stick with Wide 5 unless one is really attached to the wheels and associated hub-caps. If I was planning on driving the truck a lot, I'd probably switch over to the much more available 5 x 5.5 drums. But hey, that is just me and it is NOT my truck! LOL

[cas3]

have you measured them to know how much over 12.00 they are worn?

[Newc]

Yea! What do they measure now? any shop can do that. Newc

[KDub]

I'm taking the drums to J&G for refurbish. I contacted Don yesterday and just have to drive them down.

I bought the truck to drive. It had essentially no brakes. The pedal went to the floor and would barely stop the truck. Even around my cabin, on gravel roads with very little traffic I'm not taking that risk.

I'm not concerned about keeping it absolutely stock, but I'd rather keep it as close to stock as possible.

[Terry,OH]

Depending upon wheelbase

112" is a Pickup, 60HP is Model 922C-83, 85HP is Model 91C-83
122" is the Express, 60 HP is Model 92Y-83, 85HP is Model 91Y-83

[KDub]

Thanks for that info Terry.
Ken

[blucar]

Originally Posted by KDub

I'm taking the drums to J&G for refurbish. I contacted Don yesterday and just have to drive them down.

I bought the truck to drive. It had essentially no brakes. The pedal went to the floor and would barely stop the truck. Even around my cabin, on gravel roads with very little traffic I'm not taking that risk.

I'm not concerned about keeping it absolutely stock, but I'd rather keep it as close to stock as possible.

A wise move, unsafe mechanical components are an accident looking for a place to happen. I realize that in "the good Ole days" of our youth we did a lot of things that were down right stupid and unsafe, of course we thought we would live forever.

[KDub]

I got back to the cabin. Confirmed 112" wheelbase, 85 horsepower pickup.
Brake drums dropped off with JG Brake Relining yesterday. He's going to re-arc my new shoes to match the drums.
I bought a "trailer" made from an old Ford front suspension with wide 5 hubs/wheels. They are not the 2 piece 39 hub, and look different enough that I think they may be '36 hubs. I need to get it cleaned up a bit so I can see.
I suspect it may not be usable parts for my pickup.

He had an unusual old mechanical jack there too.

[KDub]

Here's the "trailer". It rolled right onto my trailer. I was in a rush, so I didn't take any more photos. I'll get more as I get it cleaned up. Most likely wind up as parts for sale in the swap meet. We'll see.

[Kurt in NJ]

so how much does this relining of the drum cost?
I managed to find NOS for the fronts on my 36, they are a 1 year drum,
would a NOS 37-39 drum be worth more than a relined one?

[KDub]

Around $300 per drum, but he can also do some refurbishing of fins etc that is more beauty vs function. I'm not sure how much re-arcing the shoes will be.

It's going to be several weeks, but I'll post photos asap.

For me, this was the "easy" answer to have brakes in a relatively short time frame. Versus what seems to be a fruitless hunt for rare parts. For my pickup with mostly hidden drums, NOS wouldn't be worth more unless they were local and immediately available.