List of Reproduction "A" Parts That Don't Work

[nkaminar]

Gene, The 3D printers are handy for printing prototypes and small items for use in things like model airplanes. Depending on the printer the part may be pixelated, meaning that the surface can be rough. The parts can be sanded to improve the finish. The strength of the part depends on what material is used to do the printing. That is probably limited in a beginning printer.

You will need some kind of 3D program to draw out the parts. The program must be able to convert the 3D model to software that the printer can understand. Consult the instructions.

The beginning printer will be able to print small non-structural parts for your Model A. If you need metal cast, the part can be used to make a mold. The part will need to be sanded and have the right drafts for casting. The part will also have to be enlarged to take into account the shrinkage of the cast material.

[rackops]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

This thread is supposed to be about reproduction parts that don't work. To we in the RHD world, a bigger problem is reproduction parts that are not available. The list of those would astound you guys. Just off the top of my head, there would be ignition timing levers and rods the correct length, brake cross shafts, pedal shafts and bushings, recoed steering arms - the list is seemingly endless.

The great thing about RHD cars is that so many have been modified, leaving the original parts aside. I love searching out and finding the parts I need for my car, even though paying for shipping from Australia (and/or New Zealand) is sometimes quite painful.

[rackops]

This isn't a part that doesn't work...it's simply non-existent: the Phaeton rear seat mat. I have no idea why these aren't available. It seems there'd be a continued demand as there are plenty of Phaetons around.

I am working with a company to make front and rear Phaeton floormats in RHD and LHD. We are working off the Early 1928 Ford drawings, and thus far have created the 3D files needed for the work.

What I don't know is what the material will feel like when it's made. Using natural rubber is not possible, so getting something close to that feel is going to be key. It will be interesting to see how the first batch turns out. I have licensing from Ford to create the initial samples. Hopefully, it's something that comes to fruition (if not, at least I'll have some sort of floor mat in my car!)

[bobbader]

There has been wonderment, for years, as to why nobody makes a fully authentic radiator for a Model A. Probably 25-30 years ago somebody decided to take it upon himself to do so. He finally found a supply source for tubes that were as close to original as possible. He had to buy enough for several 30/31 radiators. He made special tooling to make the dimples in the fins, etc, etc. When all was said and done, he had made at least 2 radiators over a long struggle. He needed only one for himself and chose to put the other up for sale. Remember 25-30 years ago. The unit was displayed by a well known vendor at Hershey in a special clear Lucite enclosed case. Price, if memory serves me, was $2000. Needless to say, it did not sell, and the closest thing available is still a Brassworks radiator. Very good in both quality and price. Still not 100% authentic.

Good luck with your floormat adventure. Please keep us posted.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Gene F

I have a beginners level 3-D printer that I have never even tried out. Are these really useful for making small parts? I mean do I have to by CADD14 just to get a drawing I can make up and put on the thing?

Yes, a 3D printer can be useful for making tools and widgets that help make things. A couple of 'for examples'. We were working on a 1958 Buick that had been in an accident. Some of the rubber hood bumpers were missing, so we drew the size & shape on the computer, -then we drew a two-piece mold where we could cast rubber inside to replicate the hood bumpers. The same idea could be used on the Model-A where many of the rubber pieces are not shaped correctly. If I could ever get the drawings for headlight plugs or a Powerhouse generator brush holder, these are items that a 3D printer could really help with in a restoration.

Yes, you will need to own a CAD program to draw the part, and then you need a program that will write the code. We use SolidWorks as the CAD program and Fusion360 to write the code. Fusion360 can draw the part also however it is not our preferred modeling program.

[johnneilson]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

While I am a SolidWorks aficionado I have been watching the local robotics team use OnShape
This is a online type of program that allows you to use as a subscriber
It does take a good connection and some decent ram to run

John

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Yes, a 3D printer can be useful for making tools and widgets that help make things. A couple of 'for examples'. We were working on a 1958 Buick that had been in an accident. Some of the rubber hood bumpers were missing, so we drew the size & shape on the computer, -then we drew a two-piece mold where we could cast rubber inside to replicate the hood bumpers. The same idea could be used on the Model-A where many of the rubber pieces are not shaped correctly. If I could ever get the drawings for headlight plugs or a Powerhouse generator brush holder, these are items that a 3D printer could really help with in a restoration.

Yes, you will need to own a CAD program to draw the part, and then you need a program that will write the code. We use SolidWorks as the CAD program and Fusion360 to write the code. Fusion360 can draw the part also however it is not our preferred modeling program.

Thank you

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Gene, The 3D printers are handy for printing prototypes and small items for use in things like model airplanes. Depending on the printer the part may be pixelated, meaning that the surface can be rough. The parts can be sanded to improve the finish. The strength of the part depends on what material is used to do the printing. That is probably limited in a beginning printer.

You will need some kind of 3D program to draw out the parts. The program must be able to convert the 3D model to software that the printer can understand. Consult the instructions.

The beginning printer will be able to print small non-structural parts for your Model A. If you need metal cast, the part can be used to make a mold. The part will need to be sanded and have the right drafts for casting. The part will also have to be enlarged to take into account the shrinkage of the cast material.

Thank you.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Thank you

Here is another great example of how a 3D printer can help with restoration work. Below is the wood door mouldings on a 150B Station Wagon. After milling a piece of Maple in a Moulder, we spritz the moulding with water to raise the grain. After the wood has dried, we need to sand the surface smooth. The red plastic piece is a 3D printed tool we made that is oversized from the original drawing by the thickness of the sandpaper. This allows us to use sticky-back sandpaper and attach it to the underside of the tool to have the proper shape and contour so we do not get flat spots on the wood moulding, and to quickly sand the piece.

.
.

[Gene F]

It seems to the type of thing if ya have a person show you a few pieces (take through the process) ya got it. Guess I am a show me kinda guy.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Gene F

It seems to the type of thing if ya have a person show you a few pieces (take through the process) ya got it. Guess I am a show me kinda guy.

Well, the learning curve really is mastering the CAD part of making the drawing. At that time when the drawing is finished, it can go thru the CAM process to write the code for your printer. To put your printer into perspective, you own a Tudor Body but you don't have an Engine or the Running Gear. You need both of those to be able to go somewhere.

[Fullraceflathead]

A 3D scanner can be very useful on smaller parts too.

[Dino's A]

So getting back to what Bob asked for:

Cluster bearings-Has the problem of the quality been resolved?
Ammeters-Can we ever get a quality reproduction?

Note to all suppliers : I'm tired of hearing that we will not pay for quality parts. I would in a heartbeat. Many will. Tired of cheap, squeaky people, running this culture.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Well, the learning curve really is mastering the CAD part of making the drawing. At that time when the drawing is finished, it can go thru the CAM process to write the code for your printer. To put your printer into perspective, you own a Tudor Body but you don't have an Engine or the Running Gear. You need both of those to be able to go somewhere.

I took some very basic CADD training back in the early 1990s. So long ago...

[Karl Wescott]

Bottom line... poor quality = cheap hobbyist. (realistic... few have a NASA budget).
BillCNC... if you have the skills then make it, market it, and lose your a$$ trying to prove above wrong.


The gas tank question. Please, step up and make it yourself or step back. It would be EXPENSIVE to make right and then the product liability insurance would be greater than the cost of the tank. Then (per the 1937 chassis book) we have the 1928-29 "-AR", the 1930 "-BR" and a 1930-31 "-E". If someone was silly enough to do a 1930-31 they will be castigated as being wrong because of not having a true copy when the customer has a "-C", "-D" or some variation that did not get a Ford part number.



3D Printing... A great "tool to have in the toolbox". But not an end all golden bullet solution. Most "metal" 3D printing is suitable for jewelry only, and would be of questionable strength for even ornamental parts like a quail. There are some high end aluminum 3D printers that do make functional parts but $$$$$$$.
Flexible materials are becoming available to potentially direct print usable parts as a replacement for some rubber (The V8 side has a thread on new repro parts, a printed (on demand) fender rock guard is now being made for 1942-48 station wagons).
I am using 3D printers (quality consumer grade) to make molds for investment casting waxes. 180A top saddles, Station wagon dovetails, 1930-31 Roadster/180A top iron corner brackets, 1928-29 Coupe/Tudor door hinges, 1930-31 Coupe/Tudor/Pickup door hinges, 1930-31 Slant Windshield Door hinges. On a few parts (mostly very small internal parts for roadster door latches) I have been able to direct print a plastic "wax" without a mold).
As mentioned the challenge is the virtual modeling of the part in a 3D program. I use FREECAD. Powerful, hobbyist supported, and no charge and no limitations for commercial use.

[gdmn852]

Hello again, I ordered the original type 1931 running boards from Snyders, I see now they are discontinued item , luckily still had some in stock, so got a pair. When I was restoring Porsche one of the main suppliers would advise nos parts they had , with no prices, Restorers were so glad they found the part they were looking for, just bought it ,never mind the cost . Last I knew, a set of main bearings for 356 912 models was around $300.

[Model "A" Fords]

Back to inferior parts, here is a small list from over the years. (I won't get into where they came from). Some are not made anymore and some are still popping up from the past and some are currently still being produced.

Spring shackles some look close to original but break in a short time. Some were cast instead of forged. Some don't look like any originals.
Originals were made starting with straight blank with threads finished then forged in a few steps then heat treated.

Leaf springs the closest one has a larger eye hole and usually comes with a Bronze bushing installed instead of the smaller OD steel bushing

Inside Door handles they give the impression of original until the knobs rattle and you realize they have chrome plating.
Originals had a wave washer/spring installed between the head of the stud and the handle that took up the play so it wouldn't rattle. Most handles were Nickel plated, Bright or Butler, not chrome. There were a number of styles used on various models, not one style does all.

Outside Door handles cast similar looking with incorrect finish.
Some originals were cast but a lot were made using a steel stamped structure with a formed Brass, Steel or Stainless covering. The Brass and steel covers were plated and the Stainless polished and buffed.

Amp Meters with Ford script.
Originals didn't have the Ford script on them.

Water pump shafts with the wrong taper and length.

Radiator caps and Gas caps not made the correct looking shape.

Radiators with many choices, we would expect to find one that was accurate.

Rad shells seems there is no record to show stainless steel was used on the front hood mount as the repro now has.
originals are steel, chrome plated.

Tire valve hardware with wrong threads. 5/16" and 1/2" are both too big compared to the Tire valve specific threads.
For reference, Original Ford drawings also make that mistake; they show a 5/16" thread for the cap end of the stem which is wrong. Probably they made the drawings from their manufacturers parts and mistaking 0.301" to be close enough to be 0.3125". Ford didn't manufacture their own valve hardware so it was easy for the draftsman to draw in error. only to be caught 100 years later.

Door and ignition Keys Once again Ford made some drawings in error. One ignition key drawing has some details shown mirrored.
Some reproduction keys match the style used for early Ford tractor replacement keys, a very suttall difference.

Canadian radiator emblems these are sold as black vitreous enamel for all years.
Originals, early on were dark blue that looked black and on an emblem with a small lip around the outside. The next iteration was the same emblem without the enamel and dull Nickel finish. Next was the same emblem with dull Chrome finish. Last was a different style polished stainless steel one.

Like Brent mentions, it would require a lot of time and effort to list the many inferior parts.

[nkaminar]

Off the topic, but maybe not.

There has been a revolution in making wood model airplane kits. This is a laser cutter that burns through balsa and plywood to make precision parts like fuselage stringers, doublers, and wing ribs. You used to have to cut all these parts out with a #11 X-Acto blade. The drawings are redone in Autocad. That assures precision but also allows changes to the design such as tabs and slots that make assembly a lot easier, more accurate, and faster.

I recently visited a one-person facility that puts together kits. I watched him burn the parts needed for my new model airplane. It took about 2 hours to cut all the parts for this large (8 foot wing span) airplane.

I don't know if this is applicable to the parts for Model A's but when I worked in the automation industry the laser cutter there could cut though some pretty heavy metal. Wood parts for Model A's may be able to be made on a laser cutter. A 3D part might be able to be cut in two 2D passes. Or several plywood parts could be glued together to form the 3D part and then sanded to smooth out the parts. Tabs and slots can be easily added to assure the parts are put together correctly, maybe by the person who buys them.

The laser cutter has one big advantage over 3D printing, and that is that the drawings are all just 2D and easily made using Autocad or other 2D drawing program.

[Bill G]

If not already mentioned, the instrument panel for 28/29 oval speedo. Without wallowing out holes, I can only get three screws to fit. Besides that, they are not the original duller finish.. Then there is the fact that ammeters are too small and need to be essentially glued in with silicone or something to hold them from rotating.

[nkaminar]

Regarding laser cutting of wood parts.

The latest edition of the Model A News, page 19, shows some wooden parts laid out on a sheet of wood for cutting by Ford. It seem to me that this is an ideal laser cutting application. The parts would need to be re drawn in Autocad from the original drawings to assure accuracy and to program the laser cutter. I think the wood when cut should be at the moisture content that matches that of when installed in the car.

Wood parts that needed to be shaped could be done on a CNC controlled multi axis machine. But this would require 3D models to be built from the original drawings.

According to the article in the magazine, the wood parts need to be sealed after they are made if they are exposed to the weather.