The Ford Barn

vwfinatic273 · 11-02-2016, 09:33 AM

Hello all,

Would appreciate ideas here, I bought a 1926 Tudor that sat in a basement for 65 years. Brought it home cranked right up!!! So to start the project I wanted to start with good and safe electrical. I re-wired the entire car, new battery and power cables and a new Optima Red Top 6 Volt battery. Fresh coils that were tested by Don Ellis on a hand crank machine. I have voltage in all the right places at coil box and etc and engine cranks over but will not start but will occasionally hit. I am at a loss here. I have compression, fuel and spark. No start but it did start. No idea why. Any suggestions from any experience guys to the new young guy? I thank you all

hammerless-12 · 11-02-2016, 10:09 AM

If you indeed have fuel in each cylinder, good compression, and spark you need to double check your firing order. Double check your timer/distributor to make sure it is installed correctly. Take all four spark plugs out, leaving the plug wire attached to each plug while each plug lays on top the cylinder head. Slowly turn the engine over useing the hand crank with the ignition on, and listen for each buzz coil to buzz while watching/checking that each plug fires a good hot spark in the proper order. I've messed up the timing as well as the proper firing order on many motors. This is what I would check out first, easy to goof up, but easy to check and fix.

hammerless-12 · 11-02-2016, 10:15 AM

Oh gees, I forgot to give you the firing order. I believe it is 1 2 4 3. Number one cylinder is the one closest to the radiator.

CharlieB · 11-02-2016, 11:11 AM

'26. Do you have a vaporizer carb on it? They can be quite a chore at times. Without question go over the electrics as Hammer suggests. If all's well there it's got to be fuel.

vwfinatic273 · 11-02-2016, 11:16 AM

I did check the timing and it is good. I re-checked after I re-wired the car too and I did one wire at a time on the commutator. I know the coils are buzzing. I hear the corresponding one going when that cylinder is getting close.

I do not have a vaporizer, it had a Kingston and I am putting an NH on it but right now I took the carb completely off to try to get starter fluid up that 90 degree intake because that's a hard way to get fuel up there lol. But even then it is still hard to start. It did and now doesn't...scratching my head

hammerless-12 · 11-02-2016, 12:32 PM

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I'm not sure I'm understanding your problem. You initially stated you indeed have "compression, fuel and spark". Whats that mean exactly? Fuel in the tank? Fuel at the carburetor? What I'm kinda sensing here is that you have fuel to the carburetor, but the fuel is not getting to the engine cylinders.
Pull your plugs out after choking and cranking, are they wet with fuel? I don't like starting fluid in my gas engines, but that's just me. Another way to get fuel inside the cylinders is to pull each spark plug and physically put a small amount of fuel in each cylinder, then reinstall your plugs. Crank it now. If everything else is ok, you should hear your engine run for a short time. In this case you probably have a plugged carburetor and need to give her a good cleaning.
Hope this helps.

hammerless-12 · 11-02-2016, 12:57 PM

I have recently acquired a 1918 touring that had sat for only 13 years. First thing I did was pull the gas tank, sediment bowl, fuel line and carburetor off and cleaned the whole fuel system out. You wouldn't believe all the crap I got out of it. Probably be real good advice for you also. Might as well get it done, it's gonna cause you problems in the future if you dont.

vwfinatic273 · 11-02-2016, 12:58 PM

Sorry for the confusion and thank you for your time. So I'll try to give the explanation from the beginning. I brought the car home last week. Sprayed some starter fluid through the kingston carburetor and it fired right up and ran, I only let it run about 15 seconds due to it sitting. Since then I have put all new wiring through out the entire car, re-wired the engine, cleaned all terminals and contacts, put rebuilt coils in the car that have been hand crank tool tested, and installed all new battery cable as well as a New Optima 6V battery. I have changed the carb from a Kingston to a Holley NH carb and will be running it bun since I though perhaps the engine was having a hard time pulling fuel or spray up that steep of an angle on the intake I pulled the carb off to reduce the resistance to get fuel in the engine. Still no start like that. If I pull a couple plugs and put fuel in it will try to start but not much since by the time I get the plugs reinstalled it must be evaporating. I also didn't know if maybe it is just being sensitive since the maybe when I crank the starter with the 6Volt system if maybe it is drawing to hard to let the ignition work full force. I hope this makes more sense to you. Thanks for you help!!!

29spcoupe · 11-02-2016, 01:18 PM

If your timing is correct, all coils buzz, all spark plugs fire and you are getting fuel, the problem might be the outside temperature. If you are having cold nights, the oil in the tranny may be too thick. This would cause the clutch plates to spin together as if it were in gear. Try jacking up one of the rear wheels and let it spin while you start the car. Many times when it gets cold the oil will cause this to happen. Let the engine run until the wheel slows down or when the break pedal will stop the wheel without stalling the engine. If this is your problem, it is normal for a T. The Model T has a wet clutch which is bathed in oil.

vwfinatic273 · 11-02-2016, 03:36 PM

29spcoupe, that's a good point. When I pull the handle back it seems to pull out of gear however if I try to push the car it does seem that it may be in gear but also the one rear tire is flat so hard to say. I will jack up the rear and put it on stands. If the wheels spin this means that it is sticking right?

I did just change the oil in it however it may not be in the transmission enough yet since it hasn't ran. That 65 year old oil was THICK! I am working on cleaning and re-lubing everything I can!

stevests · 11-02-2016, 06:52 PM

You mentioned you rewired to whole car - did you make sure the "hot lead" (large yellow wire, usually) off the main loom went back onto the "battery" side of the starter switch and not on the "starter" side - if you did, it will try to fire ONLY when you're stepping on the switch !

redmodelt · 11-02-2016, 08:40 PM

Try opening the spray needle a couple of turns from closed. Don't force it closed, just turn down till it seats then open about 2 turns. Clockwise =closed, counter clockwise = open. Have you checked that #1 is firing just after TDC on the "compression" stroke? Do you have fuel coming out the drain valve on the carb? Not just open and fuel comes out, but leaving it open and let it run for a bit. Do you have an in line filter, take it off for now. Are you using the choke to prime the motor.

vwfinatic273 · 11-02-2016, 10:22 PM

Stevests. I did make sure the yellow wire was on correct that would be an easy mistake to make though lol. Update below.

Redmodelt is 2 turns out what it takes to typically run? I had it started at 1 1\4 turns out. I am priming with choke. Update below made some progress tonight.

vwfinatic273 · 11-02-2016, 10:29 PM

UPDATE:

I pulled all spark plugs and re-checked compression and #3 was at almost 0. I checked valves for sticking to make sure they weren't staying open. I sprayed some aerokroil in the cylinders and on the valves. Engine seemed tight because it had been sitting and hadn't had oil circulated in years. I immediately changed oil before running FYI. I rotated engine and checked spark and location of spark on each cylinder at the electrodes. All was good. I assembled carb and reinstalled and tried to start. engine cranked much better lubed with kroil. Engine started and struggled to stay running. It sees to be fuel issue through carburetor. Also after lubing engine and cranking my #3 compression was restored. Engine will start now and not stay running. At least I got it to crank. Moving forward

redmodelt · 11-03-2016, 01:12 AM

Sweet!
Two turns has been suggested by several people as a place to start. Your engine and carb can very as no two are alike.

vwfinatic273 · 11-03-2016, 09:55 AM

Good news, I am planning on playing with the carb much more to get it right. Lubing the insides of the motor and turning over by hand I could feel it "ease" up. Just dry from sitting. Now it cranks over a million times better. I want to get it running good so I can check the mag and driveability and etc. When it ran a bit last night I did put it in gear with the rear end lifted and hit the pedals and it started driving. I'm getting more and more excited!!!!

11-02-2016, 10:09 AM	#2
hammerless-12 Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 40	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor If you indeed have fuel in each cylinder, good compression, and spark you need to double check your firing order. Double check your timer/distributor to make sure it is installed correctly. Take all four spark plugs out, leaving the plug wire attached to each plug while each plug lays on top the cylinder head. Slowly turn the engine over useing the hand crank with the ignition on, and listen for each buzz coil to buzz while watching/checking that each plug fires a good hot spark in the proper order. I've messed up the timing as well as the proper firing order on many motors. This is what I would check out first, easy to goof up, but easy to check and fix.

11-02-2016, 11:11 AM	#4
CharlieB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Toms River N.J. Posts: 515	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor '26. Do you have a vaporizer carb on it? They can be quite a chore at times. Without question go over the electrics as Hammer suggests. If all's well there it's got to be fuel.

11-02-2016, 11:16 AM	#5
vwfinatic273 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Kernersville, NC Posts: 41	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor I did check the timing and it is good. I re-checked after I re-wired the car too and I did one wire at a time on the commutator. I know the coils are buzzing. I hear the corresponding one going when that cylinder is getting close. I do not have a vaporizer, it had a Kingston and I am putting an NH on it but right now I took the carb completely off to try to get starter fluid up that 90 degree intake because that's a hard way to get fuel up there lol. But even then it is still hard to start. It did and now doesn't...scratching my head

11-02-2016, 12:32 PM	#6
hammerless-12 Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 40	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I'm not sure I'm understanding your problem. You initially stated you indeed have "compression, fuel and spark". Whats that mean exactly? Fuel in the tank? Fuel at the carburetor? What I'm kinda sensing here is that you have fuel to the carburetor, but the fuel is not getting to the engine cylinders. Pull your plugs out after choking and cranking, are they wet with fuel? I don't like starting fluid in my gas engines, but that's just me. Another way to get fuel inside the cylinders is to pull each spark plug and physically put a small amount of fuel in each cylinder, then reinstall your plugs. Crank it now. If everything else is ok, you should hear your engine run for a short time. In this case you probably have a plugged carburetor and need to give her a good cleaning. Hope this helps.

11-02-2016, 12:57 PM	#7
hammerless-12 Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 40	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor I have recently acquired a 1918 touring that had sat for only 13 years. First thing I did was pull the gas tank, sediment bowl, fuel line and carburetor off and cleaned the whole fuel system out. You wouldn't believe all the crap I got out of it. Probably be real good advice for you also. Might as well get it done, it's gonna cause you problems in the future if you dont.

11-02-2016, 09:33 AM	#1
vwfinatic273 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Kernersville, NC Posts: 41	Hard to start 26 Tudor Hello all, Would appreciate ideas here, I bought a 1926 Tudor that sat in a basement for 65 years. Brought it home cranked right up!!! So to start the project I wanted to start with good and safe electrical. I re-wired the entire car, new battery and power cables and a new Optima Red Top 6 Volt battery. Fresh coils that were tested by Don Ellis on a hand crank machine. I have voltage in all the right places at coil box and etc and engine cranks over but will not start but will occasionally hit. I am at a loss here. I have compression, fuel and spark. No start but it did start. No idea why. Any suggestions from any experience guys to the new young guy? I thank you all

11-02-2016, 10:15 AM	#3
hammerless-12 Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 40	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor Oh gees, I forgot to give you the firing order. I believe it is 1 2 4 3. Number one cylinder is the one closest to the radiator.

11-02-2016, 12:58 PM	#8
vwfinatic273 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Kernersville, NC Posts: 41	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor Sorry for the confusion and thank you for your time. So I'll try to give the explanation from the beginning. I brought the car home last week. Sprayed some starter fluid through the kingston carburetor and it fired right up and ran, I only let it run about 15 seconds due to it sitting. Since then I have put all new wiring through out the entire car, re-wired the engine, cleaned all terminals and contacts, put rebuilt coils in the car that have been hand crank tool tested, and installed all new battery cable as well as a New Optima 6V battery. I have changed the carb from a Kingston to a Holley NH carb and will be running it bun since I though perhaps the engine was having a hard time pulling fuel or spray up that steep of an angle on the intake I pulled the carb off to reduce the resistance to get fuel in the engine. Still no start like that. If I pull a couple plugs and put fuel in it will try to start but not much since by the time I get the plugs reinstalled it must be evaporating. I also didn't know if maybe it is just being sensitive since the maybe when I crank the starter with the 6Volt system if maybe it is drawing to hard to let the ignition work full force. I hope this makes more sense to you. Thanks for you help!!!

11-02-2016, 01:18 PM	#9
29spcoupe Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Rhinebeck, NY Posts: 762	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor If your timing is correct, all coils buzz, all spark plugs fire and you are getting fuel, the problem might be the outside temperature. If you are having cold nights, the oil in the tranny may be too thick. This would cause the clutch plates to spin together as if it were in gear. Try jacking up one of the rear wheels and let it spin while you start the car. Many times when it gets cold the oil will cause this to happen. Let the engine run until the wheel slows down or when the break pedal will stop the wheel without stalling the engine. If this is your problem, it is normal for a T. The Model T has a wet clutch which is bathed in oil.

11-02-2016, 03:36 PM	#10
vwfinatic273 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Kernersville, NC Posts: 41	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor 29spcoupe, that's a good point. When I pull the handle back it seems to pull out of gear however if I try to push the car it does seem that it may be in gear but also the one rear tire is flat so hard to say. I will jack up the rear and put it on stands. If the wheels spin this means that it is sticking right? I did just change the oil in it however it may not be in the transmission enough yet since it hasn't ran. That 65 year old oil was THICK! I am working on cleaning and re-lubing everything I can!

11-02-2016, 06:52 PM	#11
stevests Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Longbranch, Washington Posts: 513	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor You mentioned you rewired to whole car - did you make sure the "hot lead" (large yellow wire, usually) off the main loom went back onto the "battery" side of the starter switch and not on the "starter" side - if you did, it will try to fire ONLY when you're stepping on the switch !

11-02-2016, 08:40 PM	#12
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,341	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor Try opening the spray needle a couple of turns from closed. Don't force it closed, just turn down till it seats then open about 2 turns. Clockwise =closed, counter clockwise = open. Have you checked that #1 is firing just after TDC on the "compression" stroke? Do you have fuel coming out the drain valve on the carb? Not just open and fuel comes out, but leaving it open and let it run for a bit. Do you have an in line filter, take it off for now. Are you using the choke to prime the motor.

11-02-2016, 10:22 PM	#13
vwfinatic273 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Kernersville, NC Posts: 41	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor Stevests. I did make sure the yellow wire was on correct that would be an easy mistake to make though lol. Update below. Redmodelt is 2 turns out what it takes to typically run? I had it started at 1 1\4 turns out. I am priming with choke. Update below made some progress tonight.

11-02-2016, 10:29 PM	#14
vwfinatic273 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Kernersville, NC Posts: 41	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor UPDATE: I pulled all spark plugs and re-checked compression and #3 was at almost 0. I checked valves for sticking to make sure they weren't staying open. I sprayed some aerokroil in the cylinders and on the valves. Engine seemed tight because it had been sitting and hadn't had oil circulated in years. I immediately changed oil before running FYI. I rotated engine and checked spark and location of spark on each cylinder at the electrodes. All was good. I assembled carb and reinstalled and tried to start. engine cranked much better lubed with kroil. Engine started and struggled to stay running. It sees to be fuel issue through carburetor. Also after lubing engine and cranking my #3 compression was restored. Engine will start now and not stay running. At least I got it to crank. Moving forward

11-03-2016, 01:12 AM	#15
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,341	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor Sweet! Two turns has been suggested by several people as a place to start. Your engine and carb can very as no two are alike.

11-03-2016, 09:55 AM	#16
vwfinatic273 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Kernersville, NC Posts: 41	Re: Hard to start 26 Tudor Good news, I am planning on playing with the carb much more to get it right. Lubing the insides of the motor and turning over by hand I could feel it "ease" up. Just dry from sitting. Now it cranks over a million times better. I want to get it running good so I can check the mag and driveability and etc. When it ran a bit last night I did put it in gear with the rear end lifted and hit the pedals and it started driving. I'm getting more and more excited!!!!