Flathead smoke

[guy1unico]

It is kind of a long story but I'll describe briefly what was and what is.
My engine is a 49 - 53 hipo with Merc crank and 3 3/8 bore. The motor has about 2000 miles on it since completely rebuilt. it ran great with no smoking until i put in synthetic oil. When it started smoking out of the passenger's side tail pipe my friend told me to go back to 30 weight non detergent oil, because synthetic is a horrible break in oil. He said to put on about 800 miles with the 30 weight and the smoke should go away. Well after 200 miles it only smokes when the engine is warm and when I rev up in place. As i drive on the highway the smoke goes away. The second spark plug in from the front on the passenger side is always wet and I think it is fouling out but dont know for sure. All the other plugs are clean and dry.

Do you think if I keep driving the situation will continue to get better or am I going to have to pull the motor and break it all down...damn I hate to think of this?

Thank you,
Guy

[Brendan]

would not run synthetic oil, get a good grade of multi viscosity oil.

[JWL]

Check the compression in the cylinders. If there is mechanical damage it won't improve with age.

[Mike51Merc]

Sounds like it's getting better, so why disrupt the healing process?
I bought a new Audi in 2003 and after the first 800 miles the low oil warning came on. I filled the oil and after 800 miles it came on again. I freaked out and complained about it but they said oil consumption on a new engine was normal. The periods between losses increased, but it took 10,000 miles for all oil loss to stop. Ran the car for 100,000 more miles with never any loss between oil changes.

[Charlie ny]

I like Shell Rotella from Walmart. You might try one heat range hotter plug in the
smoker cylinder. In my experience synth oil in a Flathead is a no no, clearances are
too great.
OMHO
Charlie ny

[flatheadmurre]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

If compression test doesnt show any big differences i would check the ignition for that cylinder.
Might be as simple as a bad plug/wire/connection.
Check cable switch plugs between cylinders.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Swap the plug with a clean one in the engine, see if that same cyl gets black. Walt

[Lawrie]

I had the oiling up two plugs on my 33,always the same two,only on deceleration,turned out to be loose valve guides.
Lawrie

[guy1unico]

Lawrie...that is interesting.
I may pull the head of that one side and have a look see.

[flatjack9]

I don't see a problem with using synthetic in a flathead. Probably not on an old well worn engine. But we build these engines today with pretty close tolerances, just like any modern engine. And I don't like using diesel oil in a flathead either. It is not formulated like a gas engine oil.

[moefuzz]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

I don't see a problem with using synthetic in a Flathead. Probably not on an old well worn engine. But we build these engines today with pretty close tolerances, just like any modern engine. And I don't like using diesel oil in a Flathead either. It is not formulated like a gas engine oil.

Don't be fooled,

Shell Rotella T, the original Rotella T is exactly the oil that everybody
bought and used (irregardless of name brand) up until about 1980
when the SAE/API specifications were updated due to catalytic converters

The original Rotella T may be popular in Diesel engines today yet it was
amongst the most popular SAE/API spec gasoline engine oils ever run
threw Detroit steel up until we were handed the new spec oils 35 years
ago.

Our Flatheads have not changed and neither has the original Shell Rotella T
oil.




Almost every oil/manufacturer on the market today has updated their
current engine oil offerings to newer SAE/API specs except for a few like
Shell, Which still offers us the original formula of Rotella T that would
have been/is equivalent in spec to/as pre 1979~ Chevron Delo, Royal
Purple, Mobil Delvac, Valvoline premium, Citgo Citgard, Connoco Phillips
76, Castrol Tech etc.



The newer Rotella T3 is the original blend somewhat updated but still
to pre 1980 API/SFI specs featuring the original high ZDDP and high
phosphorus contents that all oils held up until the advent of catalytic converters.



If you wish to run the closest thing to what every piece of American steel
was born and bread on for more than 75 years, then you will not get anything closer
than the original Single grade conventional oil—in SAE 20, 30, 40 and 50
Rotella T with it's pre 1979~ specifications that is still popular on the
gasoline/racing/turbocharging/diesel/farm/motorcycle market today..
(Or T3 in multi-grades)

Personally, I have been running Synthetic oils in almost every vehicle I
have owned since 1984 including and at times, Model A's, Flathead V8's
and always daily drivers.
I have owned about 65 classic cars and trucks in that time and generally
commute (up to) 60,000 miles a year with daily drivers.

I do oil changes on vehicles every September before the snow flies,
(Including the Flatheads and Bangers) and this is what I bought to get
me thru winter 2015.

My 28 Model A got the Rotella T3 and the Flathead V8's all got synthetic.
I have a 1979 LTD Special (Fire Chiefs Car with lights) that has a leaky
rear seal so it got regular non synthetic oil and will do so until I fix the
seal.










.




Don't be scared of Rotella T, Rotella T3 , Chevron Delo,
or the excellent money saving Synthetic oils that you can run for
10,000+ miles whether it's your daily driver or even in Flatheads.

Consider this; the new Synthetic oils are being used in Heavy Truck applications
today and the manufacturers recommended oil change interval on
most semi's is between 25,000 and 40,000 miles using one oil filter.

All Synthetic oils surpass Rotella T in engine protection while offering
superior adherence to on-spec weight/viscosity for many more thousands of miles/hours.
That is to say that they will remain to be an on spec W30 viscosity oil for 10 times longer than a similiar non synthetic 30 weight oil (which
tends to thin rapidly with age after roughly ~2000 miles).


http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...ange-intervals










Rotella T and Rotella T3 is a high ZDDP and High Phosphorus Content
oil compatible with older engines with or without flat tappet cams and/or
hardened valve seats just as it was prior to 1980.









======================================
Shell Rotella T

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Shell Rotella T is a line of heavy duty engine lubrication products

produced by Shell Oil Company. The line includes engine oils, gear oils

and coolants. The oil carries both the American Petroleum Institute (API)

diesel "C" rating as well as the API gasoline engine "S" rating. Ratings

differ based on the oil. Rotella oils like T3 15w-40 meets both the API

CJ-4 and SM specifications, and may be used in both gasoline and diesel

engines. However, it is formulated specifically for vehicles without

catalytic converters, containing phosphorus levels beyond the

600-800ppm range.[1] Therefore, Rotella is not recommended for gasoline

vehicles with catalytic converters due to the higher risk of damaging

these emission controls.[2] Newer formulations of Rotella T6 however are

API SM rated as safe for pre-2011 gasoline vehicles.


Product lineup


In the engine oil family, there are four basic oil sub-families:

• Multigrade conventional oil—in SAE 10W-30 and 15W-40 viscosity
• ranges
• Multigrade synthetic oil—in SAE 5W-40
• Single grade conventional oil—in SAE 20, 30, 40 and 50
• Synthetic blend oil

Both the multigrade conventional oil (10W-30 and 15W-40) and the

synthetic SAE 5W-40 meet the newest API certification of CJ-4/SM.
Shell is marketing their new CJ-4/SM oil as "Triple Protection," meaning it

provides enhanced qualities for engine wear, soot control and engine

cleanliness. Shell's Rotella website indicates that on-road testing

confirms the new Triple Protection technology produces better anti-wear

characteristics than their existing CI-4+ rated Rotella oil.

This is achieved despite a lower zinc and phosphorus additive level as

called for by the API CJ-4 specification. (The 15W-40 Rotella T with Triple

Protection oil has approximately
1200 ppm of zinc and 1100 ppm

phosphorus at the time of manufacture.)




Competitors

Rotella competes with similar lubrication products from other oil

manufacturers. Some notable competitive products are:

• ConocoPhillips 76 Lubricants Guardol ECT w/ Liquid Titanium
• Mobil Delvac
• Chevron Delo
• Petro-Canada Duron
• CITGO Citgard
• Royal Purple
• Valvoline Premimum Blue
• Castrol Tection

Motorcycle usage

Though marketed as an engine oil for diesel trucks, Rotella oil has found

popularity with motorcyclists as well. The lack of "friction modifiers" in

Rotella means they do not interfere with wet clutch operations.

This is called a "shared sump" design, which is unlike automobiles which

maintain separate oil reservoirs - one for the engine and one for the

transmission. Used oil analysis (UOA) reports on BobIsTheOilGuy.com

have shown wear metals levels comparable to oils marketed as

motorcycle-specific.

Use in turbocharged cars

Likewise with motorcycles, though marketed as an engine oil for diesel

trucks, Rotella T6 5w-40 synthetic oil has also found popularity with

drivers and tuners of gasoline powered vehicles that utilize turbocharging

or other forms of forced induction. Several owners of high performance

model cars have adopted its use due to its high heat tolerance and its

resistance to shearing. Rotella T6 is a Non Energy Conserving Oil, and

does not meet GF-5 Oil specifications. When Rotella T6 was revised for

the API specification(for use in spark ignition motors), its Zinc levels

were effectively reduced. Higher(content) Zinc Additives(ZDDP) are

required for flat tappet engines and cartridge bearings, which In previous

formulations Rotella T6 had desirable levels of Zinc(ZDDP).

[Lawrie]

Guy, It took me many miles to work out the problem,my 33 would run all day at any speed up hills or on the flat, no miss fire UNTIL i let of the gas to slow down for road works or an intersection, ,always after had this small misfire,.always the 5 +6 cyls plugs oiled,,finally looked out the back after coming down a big long hill and just as I got on the gas a pile of blue smoke out the back.
good compression and leak down on ALL cyls,
these two cylinders had really bad stuck guides when I put the engine together,and like a DUNCE i used old valves and guides, so have some other good ones to put in later.
Other than that I could not fault the engine.
Lawrie

[guy1unico]

Lawrie,
Yes that sounds just like my situation.
So you think I have to stuck guides?
Guides are just basically a tube that the valve slides back and forth in.
Guides stay put so how can they stick?

[Lawrie]

When I stripped the engine to rebuild it those two guides were really stuck in and I had to make a drift to bash them out,I think that either they had some rust in the block where they sit or the valves where loose in the guides that I used.
lawrie

[guy1unico]

Ok, thank you
I think i'll put about 450 total miles more on this engine. Right now I'm at 200. If nothing changes I'll bust her down.

[Mike51Merc]

If you're running cast iron rings on a new bore job, you should not run synthetic oil during the break-in because synthetic oil can actually prevent the break-in process.

[flatjack9]

I don't think synthetic oil will affect the break in. I would not use it simply because it is expensive and you shouldn't leave the break in oil in for a real long time.

[Bored&Stroked]

Me, I run straight break-in oil until I know the rings are seated . . . then I switch over to whatever oil I'll run for the long term. Back in the day, we ran non-detergent 30 weight for the first 500 miles or so, then switched over to a multi-viscosity oil with detergent. I wouldn't run a synthetic oil during break in - unless it was specifically formulated for the break-in period. With that said . . . I'm sure it has been done a thousand times . . .

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Me, I run straight break-in oil until I know the rings are seated . . . then I switch over to whatever oil I'll run for the long term. Back in the day, we ran non-detergent 30 weight for the first 500 miles or so, then switched over to a multi-viscosity oil . . .

AHA! Note that "back in the day" engines were broken in with non-detergent oil. Did you know that non-detergent oil didn't have any zinc in it? And the camshafts did not go flat? How can that be?? Nowadays the 'experts' say you must have high zinc oil or your flathead will die!

[moefuzz]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

AHA! Note that "back in the day" engines were broken in with non-detergent oil. Did you know that non-detergent oil didn't have any zinc in it? And the camshafts did not go flat?
How can that be?? Nowadays the 'experts' say you must have high zinc oil or your flathead will die!

Yes 40 Deluxe, you raise a very good point,
Many would wonder the same thing. This is a problem.


?
Hands up here anybody that has "lost" the lobes on their Flathead Cam?

Anybody??
How many of the hundreds of millions of camshaft failures have been on a Ford?
On A Flathead? A Banger? A 302? A 460?
On a Mopar?
On A Packard?
On a Tucker?

On Jack Benny's Maxwell?


How Many?


?





Not Many.



....How Many have been on a SBC?
100,000,000 ? since the introduction of the ohv six in 193X?
And then continued with the sbc especially hard since ~1975~?
And BBC was not immune?

Well,
If I were to do some math I would probably find
that Jack Benny, His Maxwell
and 100 Million Fords, Hudsons, Tuckers and Mopars generally

did not have any strange -non warranty- cam failures.

?


===============================



As you correctly pointed out,

-> The entire industry is painted with a broad brush and nobody,
No not even GM,
is going to tell you that of all the worlds car owners,
all ~1 Billion for 85+ years,
only GM owners have experienced continual and on going ?problematic?
cam failures.

And the cu$tomer ha$ alway$ paid




Well, That's if they didn't wish to walk.


but that's another story.

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

AHA!
the 'experts' say you must have high zinc oil or your flathead will die!

Good Observation Mr 40 Deluxe.





.