Seat belts (AGAIN!)

[29er]

I'm shopping for seat belts for my 29 Special Coupe (49-A). Has anybody installed these (or similar) retractable belts? If so, how do they fit, and how do you like 'em? Thanks!

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo...h-hi-help.html

Mike

[SDJason]

ooh - retractable...in hindsight, I wish I had done that...

[SeaSlugs]

im just gonna throw my 2 cents out there: lap belts will keep you in the seat and prevent your knees from ramming into the firewall but your face and chest and hands are going into/thru the windshield and your chest getting harpooned on the solid steering shaft. Modern cars are foam steering wheels with a hollow tube inside that can bend and a collapsible steering shaft so if your chest hits it it collapses the shaft not your ribcage, modern also has foam dashboards, plastics throughout, windshields not 5" from your hands etc.

If you think you can "brace for impact" in a head on collision your going to need to be able to bench press 4800 (yes four thousand eight hundred) pounds to stop yourself from colliding with that steering shaft and windshield. Thats given the vehicle stops in 1 foot (head on collision it can easily) from only 30 MPH and the person only weights 160 lbs... it can triple or quad that 4800 lbs only going 45, if your heavier, taller, etc. So while the lap belt will keep your legs from hitting the gastank/steering column/floor i don't know too many people who can live without lungs or head...

side impacts and rear end collisions (more likely with these cars it seems) can still lurch you in all sorts of directions with similar forces. hence why most modern cars have like 6 airbags to keep you from hitting things inside

With an over the shoulder or a 4 point harness sure you would probably break a collar bone (happens often than you would think in modern cars) id rather have that than a permanent steering wheel imprint on my head....

I'm not trying to be preaching or telling what people should do but i thought i would throw that advice/tidbits/ forces involved out there and use it as you will. I personally plan to use at least a 3 point but thats just me. Id rather have it there for those longer trips but the putting around town i may not wear it at all but on longer trips or where im going to be on the highway i would like to have it.


But to the original question - check and see how far the seat is away from your planned mounting spot for the non retractable side of that belt. i guessed an 8" thick seat from where your butt will be compressed in the seat to the mounting hole, that puts the actual latch mechanism (the plack plastic button that says "press") about right where your front right pocket would be(or left). Any shorter seat and its going to be right where your pants belt buckle would be. Seems rather uncomfortable so you might want to sit in your car, find a mounting location for the non retractable side and stick a tape measure and see where the 20" measurement will end up. Ideal would be by your right hip (or left hip) so you don't have it digging into your side/"spare tire" like it would on me haha.

[50B]

Originally Posted by 29er

I'm shopping for seat belts for my 29 Special Coupe (49-A). Has anybody installed these (or similar) retractable belts? If so, how do they fit, and how do you like 'em? Thanks!

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo...h-hi-help.html

Mike

Yes I have. But I put the retractable on the door side.
That way the floppy end does not fall out & mark the paint up.
The retractable part will fit between the seat frame & the body with the mail end just past the door opening.

[Gary/IA]

29er,

Yes, I installed very similar lap belts in my 49A. I mounted the buckles in the center of the bench seat close to the crack between the seat and back rest. I mounted the retractable side so that when you open the door you just see the end of the belt latch protruding from behind the seat. I had to make a bracket to turn the retractable side 90*.

I realize there are limitations of a lap belt in a model A, but there is also the chance that it might help. I have seen Model A doors fly open going around a bumpy corner(I know, if done correctly like Henry did them, they won't or shouldn't do that).

[SeaSlugs]

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Originally Posted by Gary/IA

29er,

Yes, I installed very similar lap belts in my 49A. I mounted the buckles in the center of the bench seat close to the crack between the seat and back rest. I mounted the retractable side so that when you open the door you just see the end of the belt latch protruding from behind the seat. I had to make a bracket to turn the retractable side 90*.

I realize there are limitations of a lap belt in a model A, but there is also the chance that it might help. I have seen Model A doors fly open going around a bumpy corner(I know, if done correctly like Henry did them, they won't or shouldn't do that).

oh yea dont get me wrong, anything is better than nothing. Haha yea i remember people telling me stories of their door flying open. I plan to hide mine the best i can too and i think it can be done rather easily.

[29er]

Thanks guys. I searched the Forum and found LOTS 'o info about seat belts for our A's, but never came across any discussion of a 4-point belt. Most folks who have seat belts seem to have installed lap belts. SeaSlugs highlighted a potential problem with lap belts; the risk of head/face/chest injury. Previous threads engaged in some discussion of a 3-point belt (single shoulder harness), which would help mitigate the potential of such injuries, but attachment of the shoulder belt is problematic. The 4-point belts have two shoulder harnesses and only 3 attachment points, which are all on the floor:

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/am4point.html

Does anyone have any experience with these?

[Benson]

From a safety stand point it would be a good idea to check the windshield and side windows to be be sure that they are safety glass.

My 29 Coupe had some plate window glass installed in the windshield when I hit the rear of a car stopped in front of me at 45 MPH. (I had installed Seatbelts 2 years earlier)

I did not hit the windshield but Ten years later I found the plate glass installled in the windshield frame!

The side windows in the Coupe were also plate glass (factory installed as I understand it) but I had found this before the accident and made the mistake of assuming that the windshield had the safety glass that was installed at the factory.

Model A s came with safety glass in windshield but not in side windows.

[BobbyG]

This has been on my mind a lot lately too - I have some lap belts to fit but I would prefer a 3 point belt - But I can not see anyway to fit that over the shoulder top mount - I guess a solution would be double shoulder straps such as a 4 pint harness - but I am not sure that they are the 'best' solution.

Anyone fitted 3 points in a coupe ?

Bob

[Pat Martone]

29er,

Thanks for the link about the 4-point belts; I am going to give that some serious thought.

I have front seat lap belts in my Town Sedan now, but since I drive my "A" a lot, I am worried about the accident scenario outlined by SeaSlugs, and I therefore would be more comfortable with my wife riding in my car if she (and I) had the protection provided by the 4-point belts.

Has anyone installed these?

Thank you.

[QGolden]

I wonder if you can still find this old GM Dealer Accessory. There were a few other aftermarket seatbelt retractors as well. J C Whitney sold them back in the day as well. They just fit on the seatbelt and rolled up like a window shade.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by 29er

Thanks guys. I searched the Forum and found LOTS 'o info about seat belts for our A's, but never came across any discussion of a 4-point belt. Most folks who have seat belts seem to have installed lap belts. SeaSlugs highlighted a potential problem with lap belts; the risk of head/face/chest injury. Previous threads engaged in some discussion of a 3-point belt (single shoulder harness), which would help mitigate the potential of such injuries, but attachment of the shoulder belt is problematic. The 4-point belts have two shoulder harnesses and only 3 attachment points, which are all on the floor:

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/am4point.html

Does anyone have any experience with these?

Yes, I have 5 point racing harness's in my 2 door and no, I can't describe how it's done for liability reasons.
If you are going to anything more than stock belts, you need the crotch belt.

[Harley03joe]

Originally Posted by Gary/IA

29er,

Yes, I installed very similar lap belts in my 49A. I mounted the buckles in the center of the bench seat close to the crack between the seat and back rest. I mounted the retractable side so that when you open the door you just see the end of the belt latch protruding from behind the seat. I had to make a bracket to turn the retractable side 90*.

I realize there are limitations of a lap belt in a model A, but there is also the chance that it might help. I have seen Model A doors fly open going around a bumpy corner(I know, if done correctly like Henry did them, they won't or shouldn't do that).

LETS See Pictures

[Y-Blockhead]

What are you guys mounting the belts to? Not much unter the floor with enough strength to really matter IMO.

[insomniacshotrods]

Close I used these https://www.seatbeltplanet.com/seatb...cts/24/view/65 in the 29 and im mounting a set of these in the 30 , started on it tonight. I mount the retractable part about 3 inches past the door pillar so its not that noticeable when you open the door. I mount the 2 floppy ends together at the middle of the car center of the 2 seats down through the metal floor brace. Only use a single belt across the back seat. use these under the car. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seat-Belt-In...674456&vxp=mtr




This is how the passenger side would look if you could see it. Mocked it up on drivers side to show how the mounts look.


Needs turned around for this side but you can see where it will come up by the seat.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

What are you guys mounting the belts to? Not much unter the floor with enough strength to really matter IMO.

Hey Joe,
Well, you can use a variety of metal configurations. I found the best IMO and easiest is a quarter inch thick 2x2" angle iron ..length to fit across to suit you. I can take picture for you of underside, if that will help. Center two belts together and end belts bolted towards ends. I used the grade 8 seat belt type bolts with LARGER than fender type washers. Probably overkill , but surely will not pull out !

[mshmodela]

Thinking of these for a winter project:

http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/am4point.html


I like that they are all attacked to the floor only..

[AL in NY]

I'm going to try to put seat belts with shoulder harnesses in my 30 CCPU this winter. I'm going to remove the upper wood "rail" that runs above the back cushion and replace it with a machined piece of aircraft aluminum the same size, possibly larger. That piece will attach to a vertical piece of heavy steel angle iron that is mounted to the floor behind the seat in the corner of the cab. The vertical angle iron will be high enough to mount the shoulder belt to. I think the aluminum should provide enough strength for the shoulder belts because it is bolted to the cab in 5 places. I am not going to drill any holes in the back of the cab or do any welding to it either. I'll take photos when it is completed.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by QGolden

I wonder if you can still find this old GM Dealer Accessory. There were a few other aftermarket seatbelt retractors as well. J C Whitney sold them back in the day as well. They just fit on the seatbelt and rolled up like a window shade.

This retractor is readily available on ebay and they work great. Do NOT get the plastic ones. pay the money for the good one,..

[Lona]

I posted a thread last March on installing retractable shoulder belts in a '31 roadster and a subsequent post with photos of the installation. I think the same technique would also work with coupes.

A note of caution which is very important, especially to those thinking about installing shoulder belts over the seat and attached to the floor behind the seat. Don't do it! In an accident, the force of your body moving forward will make the belt over your shoulder move downward, crushing your shoulder and likely your spine. Shoulder belts must be attached behind the seat at or slightly below the shoulder and not to the floor. Floor mountings are ok if a belt pivot point is mounted at or a little below the shoulder but this would require a substantial mounting which model a's normally do not have.

On another point, check with your retractable belt supplier if you plan to install the retractor in any other position other than vertical as most retractors will not work if installed any other way. I had to search several suppliers before I found one that would work when installed in a horizontal position.

Glen