Just bought a '51Merc

[WABOOM]

Hey guys I just bought a 51 Merc. I wanted to introduce myself and show you my first classic. My name is Casey. I'm in Minnesota.
Thanks for looking.

[rockfla]

What a beauty!!! Congrats!!

[tubman]

Great lookin' car. I always liked the '51 best of these Mercury's because of the taillights. Most like the '49-'50 style, but I like the way the trunk is kinda recessed on these. You say you're from Minnesota; it's best to add your location to your profile. It helps if you're looking for parts or other assistance. Welcome aboard.

[scicala]

Great looking Mercury, and welcome to the Ford Barn Casey !


Sal

[WABOOM]

.

[RalphM]

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What a great looking car! Welcome to the Ford Barn!

[flatford8]

If driving that don’t put a smile on a mans face..... he might be dead!... Congrats.... Mark

[Art Newland]

That's sharp!

[mfirth]

Awesome Merc! Like tubman 51 is my fave. Had a friend with a 51 4 door, hot flathead w/ overdrive. It would run & was rust free. I'm jealous !!!

[19Fordy]

You got yourself a beauty. Congrats. Great color. Is it stick or automatic? Please post more photos of interior, etc. Also, post where you live in MN. Lots of Merc owners on HAMB also.
Ford made 157,648 model 74 like yours.

[petehoovie]

Is it originally a Minnesota car? Too nice to be that....

[JSeery]

Nice!

[WABOOM]

The car was originally purchased at Sherman's in Asbury NJ by a lady. She owned it into the 1980's and then a gentleman from Ohio bought the car and owned it for many years and had the motor rebuilt, interior re-done and car re-painted same color in 1995. Then a guy in Iowa was it's proud owner for quite a while. And now it's here in Minnesota.
It does vapor lock btw. But I'm attacking that today.

[Clem Clement]

Sweet ride!

[rotorwrench]

Both of mine are early 1951 overdrive cars. The Merc-O-matic is the first generation for 1951. They are smooth, quiet, & comfortable. The Sport Sedans have plenty of room inside. I'm sure you'll like it. My Pop had two of them but I only inherited one from him. His first was about the same color as yours, a radiant green poly. I purchased the other out of New Mexico. Both were built in St Louis, Mo. Yours looks like Sheffield Green.

[WABOOM]

Yes, Sheffield Green. This one does have the Merc-O-Matic with O/D. Is the oververdrive the T handle under the dash?

[51 MERC-CT]

Never heard of a Merc-O-matic with overdive.
The only 'T' handle I can think of with overdrive is the hood release handle.

[WABOOM]

This is the T handle on the right.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by WABOOM

This is the T handle on the right

Woops, forgot about the 'E' brake handle.

[Talkwrench]

yup like it ! welcome..

[FrankWest]

WOW! That's a very Beautiful Car!

[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

Woops, forgot about the 'E' brake handle.

Ha! I honestly didn't know that.

[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

Is it originally a Minnesota car? Too nice to be that....

No it isn't. It was a "rust belt" car though.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by WABOOM

No it isn't. It was a "rust belt" car though.

Given the rock salt used in Minnesota to melt the ice and snow on the streets during winter months, I suggest that Minnesota is a "rust belt" state as well - one of the worst in fact....

[Capsacto]

Sweet car!!

[WABOOM]

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Originally Posted by petehoovie

Given the rock salt used in Minnesota to melt the ice and snow on the streets during winter months, I suggest that Minnesota is a "rust belt" state as well - one of the worst in fact....

Absolutely. I know all about it. If you live in the Twin cities Metro, rust starts happening on the undercarriage of every make of car almost immediately.

[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

You got yourself a beauty. Congrats. Great color. Is it stick or automatic? Please post more photos of interior, etc. Also, post where you live in MN. Lots of Merc owners on HAMB also.
Ford made 157,648 model 74 like yours.

Automatic transmission.
I live in city of Ramsey.
Here's a few more pics.

[51 MERC-CT]

First time I recall seeing rubber sill plates on a Mercury.
Suspect that this was late production as some '51 and earlier years were Aluminum.
This was probably due to Korean war restrictions that limited the use of Aluminum, Chromium as well as other materials.

[r_reed]

great looking merc. enjoy.

[corvette8n]

Wow Casey you did good, enjoy your ride.

[rotorwrench]

A lot of stuff can get changed over the years. The sill plates can get damaged easily so I can see why they might have been changed. I don't think those are OEM but I could be wrong. The 6 passenger coupe aluminum sill plates are available but not for the 4-door sport sedan. I've found some good ones out there though. The Brown & Tan trim is pretty much same as one of my cars.

No overdrive with the Merc-O-Matic. It didn't need it with the tall rear axle gears they had. RPM at 70 mph should not be all that bad for an automatic car. You can get copies of the Owner's Manual for the 1951 cars. The Lincoln Mercury overhaul manual is a very good reference for repairs but you have to make sure the copy you get has all the 1951 updates. There was also good manual available for the Merc-O-Matic transmission as well but it is a separate item. Accessory manuals for them list available accessories from Lincoln Mercury.

One of the Early Ford V8 Club members is in process of putting a book together for the 49 thru 51 Mercury cars.

[WABOOM]

Do you know what the rear gear ratio is?

[Admiral]

GORGEOUS! I love those early post-war Mercurys.

[flathead48]

One beautiful car, best of luck with it.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by WABOOM

Do you know what the rear gear ratio is?

Differential is 3:31 with automatic.

[WABOOM]

Ok thank you. I actually need to replace the rear end. It needs a rebuild. It has a loud clink. Sadly, I don't think I'm going to be able to find one in 8 days. I might not be able to bring the car to Back To The Fifties at the fairgrounds.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by WABOOM

Ok thank you. I actually need to replace the rear end. It needs a rebuild. It has a loud clink. Sadly, I don't think I'm going to be able to find one in 8 days. I might not be able to bring the car to Back To The Fifties at the fairgrounds.

The loud "clink" might be coming from the u-joint as opposed to the rear end - much easier to repair/replace the u-joint....

[itsa52]

Love the lucky strikes on the dash, and the hat on the seat.. You are rocking it.

[John Gibson]

What a great car for your first classic. I’m certain you’ll get a lot of pleasure driving and showing it

[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

The loud "clink" might be coming from the u-joint as opposed to the rear end - much easier to repair/replace the u-joint....

Doesn't appear to be the U joint. The pinion seal is casting off oil too. I think its the pinion bearing.

[rotorwrench]

If it's not the U-joints, the aft cover pan is relatively easy to remove to have a look in there. The Dana 44 has been one that has lasted for many years so stuff it available for repairs. There are at least two types of pinion seal in the early to mid 50s and I think they are interchangeable in sets but I still find the early type out there as well. The Mercury and F1/F100 pickups all used the Dana 44 in that time frame as well as Ford station wagons & Police cars. They are the 19-spline axle variety in those early years of the Dana 44 use. Hopefully your gears are still good. That set of gears is the most expensive part in there.

If it's a pinion bearing set that's bad, the pinion will move around and make all sorts of funky noises. Randy's Ring & Pinion should have a replacement set for the tall gears like yours. A lot of folks look for the gear sets taller than the 3.91:1 ratio that the overdrive cars used but the ratio has to match the carrier diameter. Yours should already be set up for tall gears.

[34PKUP]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

If it's not the U-joints, the aft cover pan is relatively easy to remove to have a look in there. The Dana 44 has been one that has lasted for many years so stuff it available for repairs. There are at least two types of pinion seal in the early to mid 50s and I think they are interchangeable in sets but I still find the early type out there as well. The Mercury and F1/F100 pickups all used the Dana 44 in that time frame as well as Ford station wagons & Police cars. They are the 19-spline axle variety in those early years of the Dana 44 use. Hopefully your gears are still good. That set of gears is the most expensive part in there.

If it's a pinion bearing set that's bad, the pinion will move around and make all sorts of funky noises. Randy's Ring & Pinion should have a replacement set for the tall gears like yours. A lot of folks look for the gear sets taller than the 3.91:1 ratio that the overdrive cars used but the ratio has to match the carrier diameter. Yours should already be set up for tall gears.

Thought that this is a automatic and has the 3.31:1, why would any change even be considered or contemplated?

[WABOOM]

There's a salvage yard here in Minnesota that specializes in classics and they 2 rear ends for a '51 Mercury and both are 1:4.27
Do you think I should buy one of those?

[JSeery]

What rotorwrench was stating is the lower ratio rear axles may not except the high ratio ring and pinion gears. At least without modifications.

[WABOOM]

Do you think 4.27 would be insane at 65 mph with the Merc-O-Matic? I'm guessing it's a huge difference from 3.31 .

[rotorwrench]

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"Taller gears" is a reference that a lot of folks use to describe higher road speed gears for less engine rpm.

There are four different differential carriers. The 3.31:1 and 3.54:1 Merc-O-Matic ratios used the 1M-4205-B carrier case. When the ring gear gets smaller for the low number "higher speed" ratios, the bolt circle gets smaller too. You can use those high speed ratios if your axle has that carrier case. The Merc-O-Matic was designed to start out in intermediate gear then shift to high gear unless you pull the shifter down into low gear. With the stall capability of that big torque converter and decent low end torque of the V8, it makes for a good city and highway combination. The higher speed axle gearing compensated for the inefficiency of that big old torque converter. If you go with anything slower than 3.54:1 your going to get out of the highway range pretty quick. It will be OK for city but the rpms will be too high to keep up with highway speeds.

Lets just hope that your gears are good. You won't want any 4.27:1 ratio. Keep what you have in case you just have a bad axle bearing or something of that nature. All it will cost you to check yours out is Dana 44 pan gasket and the work it takes to do a good shake down on everything to see what's loose in there. It likely could use some new gear oil in there anyway. Hell you might find something rattling around in a brake drum. It could be something simple. Always do the easiest thing first when troubleshooting.

[1931flathead]

You can try windyhill in new London min they have a few old cars they are open 7 days a week

[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by 1931flathead

You can try windyhill in new London min they have a few old cars they are open 7 days a week

Thank you.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by WABOOM

Doesn't appear to be the U joint. The pinion seal is casting off oil too. I think its the pinion bearing.

I agree with checking the drive shaft first though. Put it in neutral and try to move back / forth by hand. Or, hold the brake at idle and switch from drive to reverse at idle...cheap enough diagnostic. It problem still can't be found, put the rear axle up on jack stands. With foot on brake , engine idling, put in drive. Still at idle, foot on brake again, put in reverse. Rear clunk will show up pretty pronounced if problem there.


'Rust belt', hm. I'd suggest that you wouldn't want to be responsible for ruination of a beautiful classic merc , by subjecting It to harsh salty conditions !
Yeah, I can garage it for you in SoCal gratis ! When you vacation here, you can ride in style and not feel guilty about ruining a classic , eh !
On the 'left coast' they don't even allow salt to be sold, just because.

[WABOOM]

Ha!

[1931flathead]

320 354 2201 try to talk to Alan

[RalphG]

Beautiful Merc you have. My 52 has the original aluminum sill plates but they are well used and dented. Have you tried jacking up the rear end and turning a wheel by hand? My 53 parts Merc had some scary noises coming from the rear axle that turned out to be a piece of broken brake hardware grinding against the shoes.
My 52 also had a loud whine on deceleration that turned out to be a loose nut on the front of the diff. Tightened it up and no more noise.

[Habusailor]

Where are you in Minnesota? I just bought a 49 Ford and I live in Fargo. The car is at our lake home close to Pelican Rapids


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[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by Habusailor

Where are you in Minnesota? I just bought a 49 Ford and I live in Fargo. The car is at our lake home close to Pelican Rapids


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Anoka/ Ramsey

[wisbangman]

The first car I ever drove was my dad's 51 Merc 4 door. No , I didn't have a drivers license, I was only 15. I will turn 75 on my next birthday- you do the math !

[Penthode]

Gotta be careful you don't reach down and accidentally pull the wrong handle!

[WABOOM]

I opened up the rear end and there is a lot of play where the axles meet the differential. That's what is making so much noise.
Is that axel bearings?

[rotorwrench]

The axle shaft bearings allow for a little play due to the type of bearing but not much. If you put it up on jack stands, see if the axles will chuck in and out very much. They are allowed to float but the bearings will have more movement as they wear out. Replace bearings that have too much play or roughness in rotation. The gears look to have some wear but no corrosion pitting or spalling that I can see. The spider gears float a bit in there so there can be some movement on them but not a lot. Shake the pinion side to side and in and out. There should be no shake or chucking movement I with it. The Dana 44 is a reliable unit or it wouldn't have been in service as long as it has.


The rear axle ring & pinion set are set up with around .011" of gear backlash when new but it gets to be more clearance as the gears wear. The Timken bearings should all still have some preload and show no signs of shake or movement. Wear reduces the preload over time. Used bearings can never be set up with as much preload as new ones. I general replace all the Timken tapered rollers & cups when I do an overhaul but I don't do an overhaul unless something is too loose in there.

[WABOOM]

Thank you for your reply. The axles have very little play as I push/pull on the wheels. But they do have play when I rock the wheel at the 6 and 12 o'clock position.
So I guess the axel has "shake" and not "chuck"

[WABOOM]

I just took another really close look at it and the play is where the spider mate in the carrier housing.

[rotorwrench]

Axle bearings wear out faster than the others. It might be time for some new ones. They are ball bearings and shouldn't have any radial play at all.

[WABOOM]

Is the bearings for the spiders in the diff?

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by WABOOM

Is the bearings for the spiders in the diff?

No bearings for the side gears. They ride directly in the case because they rotate very little- only when going around a corner or when you're stuck and spinning just one wheel.
Sounds like your play could be in the axle splines where the axle shaft fits into the side gears. Watch the axle end as you rotate a side gear back and forth. Some play is normal. There also could be wear in the spider gears where they ride in the center pin Again, no bearings. There are thrust washers between the gears and case which could be worn.
The splines are the most likely wear point causing slack in the rear end.

[WABOOM]

Ok thank you

[rotorwrench]

The axles float inside the differential carrier case. The side gears ride on the axles and are held in place by the differential carrier case since they float in there too. The spider pinion gears ride on the little shaft that is held in place by the carrier case. the differential carrier case rides on it's own tapered roller bearings on each side. The axle bearings are the major support for the axles and they are bolted in place in the main case just inboard of the brake backing plates. The axle bearing is a sealed type and presses on the axle with a retainer pressed on there inboard of it to help hold it in place. A large outer bearing retainer bolts the axle assembly into the main housing and has a gasket. There is an axle seal inboard of the axle bearing that is pressed into the main housing. The gasket, seal, & retainer should all be replaced when the axle bearings are replaced. No telling how old the grease in the bearings is.

[1931flathead]

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Does the side gears move up and down in the carrier ???

[aussie merc]

one cool ride!!! enjoy

[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by 1931flathead

Does the side gears move up and down in the carrier ???

Yes the spiders do, but not the ring.

[1931flathead]

Then you need a carrier with the spiders gears probably some one got stuck and racked the carrier

[WABOOM]

Trying to find a compatible carrier and I'm having a trouble. All the Dana 44 carrier charts say it does not fit 51 Ford/ Mercury.

[1931flathead]

Did you try french lake auto

[WABOOM]

Yeah I did. They 2 that had that were the 4.27 rear gear.
I also called Windy Hill.

[1931flathead]

French lake might have on but not on their computers not all there parts are on it try to talk skip

[rotorwrench]

Randy's ring & pinion has the large & small carrier if that is what you need. It would be a good idea to confirm what you need one first. There are clearance specs for the parts that go in there. It would suck to pay a lot of money for something that isn't broke. Those parts don't fit real tight in there since they float a bit but they shouldn't wobble around either. If you do need parts, you are fortunate that these axles were also used in pickups so check with the folks at this link. https://www.randysworldwide.com/diff...RWD&diffid=126

Just don't buy anything till you know exactly what you need. If someone tells you you need something without them visually inspecting it first then that's like a doctor giving you advice over the phone without looking at you and I wouldn't advise that.

[1931flathead]

Can you do a video of the slop never seen the side gears wear out like that you are talking about I seen the pin get wore out the holes

Unless you set one up before they are a lot of work to get it right i have done some unless you have the tools to do it i would take it to some one

[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by 1931flathead

Can you do a video of the slop never seen the side gears wear out like that you are talking about I seen the pin get wore out the holes

Unless you set one up before they are a lot of work to get it right i have done some unless you have the tools to do it i would take it to some one

I do have a video of it but can't seem to upload the vid. I put 85w140 in it and it is quieter now. We took it out for a 20 mile trip. I mostly just wanted to drive it to Back to the FIFTIES.

[WABOOM]

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[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by WABOOM

I do have a video of it but can't seem to upload the vid. I put 85w140 in it and it is quieter now. We took it out for a 20 mile trip. I mostly just wanted to drive it to Back to the FIFTIES.

Sure wish I could really drive back to the "FIFTIES"

[51 MERC-CT]

Sure looks like the the inner axle/bearings are moving quite a bit in the vid.

[1931flathead]

I hope it last for you for the weekend I went to the back to the 50's for years I missed last year and no going this year have to get better to make the drive

This is on more junk yard rohners in Wilmar min but be the best to go there

[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

Sure looks like the the inner axle/bearings are moving quite a bit in the vid.

My understanding is that there is not an "inner" axle bearing. Only an axle bearing at the backing plate, and then Carrier bearing at the differential. The diff carrier itself is not showing any play. (Prying up on the ring gear)

[rotorwrench]

The side gear appears to be moving a good bit in the differential carrier case. It would certainly be something to look into. The axles would have to come out to remove the differential case for tear down & further inspection. I'm not sure the side gears will come out if you remove the spider pinions but they might. A person has to keep very close track of the shims for the differential case bearings in order to get it back into a good position for the ring & pinion backlash in case the differential carrier case is still serviceable. If the case has to be replaced then a person should consider a complete overhaul to get everything back up to snuff. You can reuse good bearings but with a new case, they won't be able to take the preload that the new bearings have to have. The gear pattern & backlash may also need adjustments. All this stuff is covered in the Lincoln Mercury overhaul manual for the 49 thru 51. Dana 44 generic information can also be used unless it differs with the older 19-spline type axle procedures.


If you go the salvage yard search, there is a chance you may end up with a dog. The carrier for the auto trans ratios and the 19-spline side gears are available in the link from Randy's R&P. He has several pages of stuff there for the 19-spline axle assemblies.

[Mart]

My gut feeling is that it is worn, but not worn out. To be more specific, hopefully it will just continue to go down the road without actually failing. It will clonk, but should keep going until you find a suitable replacement. Do not compromise with a lower (higher numerical) axle.

Just my 2c worth.

Mart.

[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by Mart

My gut feeling is that it is worn, but not worn out. To be more specific, hopefully it will just continue to go down the road without actually failing. It will clonk, but should keep going until you find a suitable replacement. Do not compromise with a lower (higher numerical) axle.

Just my 2c worth.

Mart.

Thank you. All of you have been very helpful. I'm going to drive it a little this summer, and then I will remove the whole rear end in September and bring it to a driveline shop for rebuild.

[1931flathead]

If you take it easy on it hope it will last the summer for you.

I had a 1953 Ford with a flathead vs in it with a 3 speed I switched the whole rear end with a newer one with higher gears

[tubman]

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I had a '51 Ford in high school. The rear end howled like a banshee from when we got it in the summer of '57 until I junked it in '61 (because of rust issues). In the interim, the engine was rebuilt once, and the transmission replaced twice. The rear end was still howling when it left our place for the last time "on the hook".

You'll probably make it through the summer. (And then, there's always a handful of sawdust.)

[19Fordy]

Keep your eyes on Craigslist and Ebay as 49-51 Merc rears show up now and then.
I sold mine for $150 5 years ago. It was a 4:27

[rotorwrench]

I did some checking around the internet for information on the side gear fit in the case for Dana 44 axles. The Dana Spicer information lists no specs it just states "the case bore for the side gear should be round". Perceptible elongation should be minimal at best. Other folks that have rebuilt them and done the measurements on the side gear and the case ID bore all agree that the clearance is about .005". My best guess is .005" to .006" for clearance. Someone will have to measure them to see what the clearance and out of round might be. If they are not out of round or tapered, the surfaces are not scored or burned blue, and clearance is reasonable, then they are good to go. This is a semi floating rear axle so the stuff has to be free to move in there.


If you haven't already, remove the brake drums and inspect in there. Check the axles for smooth movement and play. If brake parts are secure, everything moves OK, axles are smooth to turn, and doesn't have much play, I'd run it. Clicking in a rear axle usually means a broken gear tooth or a bad bearing. Whining under torque load indicates a loss of preload on something and it's moving around too much under torque. If your not seeing any of this, you may have a problem somewhere else.


The only reason I would buy a junk yard axle is for the hard parts like the axles or housings. The gears might be good and they might be worn out.

[Merc Cruzer]

Put this on your cell phone for the next time you just out crusing or are washing and waxing that beast!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T3MgIRUwj0

[Rustedjunk]

It looks nice and looks very familiar too. I think I know that car. I see you are from Minnesota. Are you part of the Early V8 Ford Club? Join them and our Twin Cities chapter.

[WABOOM]

Originally Posted by Rustedjunk

It looks nice and looks very familiar too. I think I know that car. I see you are from Minnesota. Are you part of the Early V8 Ford Club? Join them and our Twin Cities chapter.

Ok! I will. Gonna look it up now.

[oldsman41]

427to 1 is 3 speed of gear you would kill the motor with that in a auto car

[WABOOM]

Yeah I ain't buying one of those. I inspected it and put in some thick gear oil (85w140)+ some Lucas and it's quiet now.