How common is it to just take the shocks off?

[Pamodelaroadster]

Another newbie question here. My model a is not ready for the road yet, I just bought it and discovered three of the four shocks aren’t even there. I know leaf spring suspensions have a lot of built in friction so I’m wondering how many people just leave the shocks off? Also what’s the best way/place to purchase them since I don’t have anything to rebuild? Thank you for any responses

[Harpkatt]

I can't answer for others, I have an RPU that has had no shocks since purchased and honestly you'd never really notice. My coupe does have shocks though.

[alexiskai]

Running without shocks is common for folks whose springs are also badly rusted. If/when you end up reconditioning the springs, you'll find shocks become necessary. New hydraulic shocks are available but expensive, and sometimes in short supply. Many folks go with tube shocks – not authentic, but cheap and they do the job.

[Kurt in NJ]

A lot of model A's have been driven without shocks if the springs are rusty and dry friction performs the shock function.
I drove without shocks for a couple of days when the springs were supple and lubricated, it was hard to control at 35-40, when i put the properly working shocks back on it was comfortable to drive over 60

[VT Cruzan]

My 1931 Coupe had one front shock only when I bought it 50 years ago and it was seized. I took it off and ran it that way until a year ago when I installed the tube shock kit from Snyders. It made for a more stable but much firmer ride. It's an easy installation.

[old ugly]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

i drove my model B tudor for 45 years without shocks

[eagle]

A lot of the original shocks are so wore out they dont do anything anyways.

[ndnchf]

My '31 CCPU only has them on the front. It rides fine.

[Kevin in NJ]

If you do not have shocks on your car and you can drive it over 25 MPH without it feeling like you are going off the road then your springs are really bad.

If you have good springs and no shocks then expect the car to just feel like it wants to leave the road over 25 MPH.

I see a lot of cars with no shocks. I also see the same cars with the front spring clearly wore out and/or rusty. Usually the front brake lever is verticle or leaning rearwards too. Usually these are the guys saying 45 is the top end of the car. Personally I feel 25 is the safe top speed from the few I have driven.

[burner31]

[QUOTE=Pamodelaroadster;2110181] so I’m wondering how many people just leave the shocks off?...........A lot of people

Also what’s the best way/place to purchase them since I don’t have anything to rebuild? ..........See post #5

[Synchro909]

My Phaeton had no shocks when I got it and it was all over the road when I hit a bump, crossed a railway line etc. I then put a pair of telescopic ones from a modern car on the back. Wow, what a difference. Later, I put a pair on the front as well. That hardly made any difference.
I'd say that a pair on the back will do about 80% of what a full set would do.

[4bangerbob]

Yes, drove my 28 for 15+ years, no shocks.

[lrf]

My Tudor had no shocks when purchased many years ago, she bounced from dips and body rolled when going around corners. I found and put 1934 Ford shocks on her and it solved the problem. Back in the day, shocks were cheap and easy to find at swap meets. Those were the good ole days!

[Dodge]

It works but much better with shocks. If your on a budget use the modern tube shocks.

Rember: The Model T has no shocks, the passengers are the shock absorbers.....

[ronn]

shocks tend to cost 1000-1500. fir a really good rebuilt set- not cheap.


If looking at a restored car for sale, one of the first things I check are the shocks. If they are missing, then I can guess the work done on the rest of the car.

[nkaminar]

Kits are available to put modern tube shocks on the Model A. If you don't care about authenticity then that would be a less expensive option. I have modern shocks on the back of my car and they cannot be seen without crawling under the car.

[Chris in WNC]

[QUOTE=burner31;2110218]

Originally Posted by Pamodelaroadster

so I’m wondering how many people just leave the shocks off?...........A lot of people

Also what’s the best way/place to purchase them since I don’t have anything to rebuild? ..........See post #5

John Holland in Ohio sells excellent rebuilds and has cores.
lower cost than new Stipe units.
look in the MARC roster for contact info.....

[WHN]

Henry would not have put shocks on the car if they were not needed. Especially the expensive ones he used.

Anyone who has driven or ridden in a Model A with good springs and shocks will really notice the difference.

If the car can’t be fixed properly, it should be left in the garage. In my opinion there are four things that first of all have to be correct.

Brakes!

Front end!

Springs!

Shocks!

Everything else is fluff!

Haze Gray and Underway. Enjoy.

[rotorwrench]

If you have worn out springs then you can get away with no shocks. Put some good springs on there and it will be bouncing all over the place.

[Gene F]

I agree with #9. And "Anyone who has driven or ridden in a Model A with good springs and shocks will really notice the difference."

I bought my shock tube kit from the late Rainmaker Ron. They are great. Before that I had good shocks off of a 1935 Ford.

Changing my front spring made a noticable difference too.

[Bob Bidonde]

The Model A ride is poor and without shocks it's terrible. Put modern telescoping shocks on it if originals are unobtainable.

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by WHN

Henry would not have put shocks on the car if they were not needed. Especially the expensive ones he used.

Anyone who has driven or ridden in a Model A with good springs and shocks will really notice the difference.

If the car can’t be fixed properly, it should be left in the garage. In my opinion there are four things that first of all have to be correct.

Brakes!

Front end!

Springs!

Shocks!

Everything else is fluff!

Haze Gray and Underway. Enjoy.

fifth thing on list: cooling system.

[Pamodelaroadster]

Thank you for all the replies, it’s nice to know there are several options. Does anyone re-arch the original springs like it talks about in the manual I have and rebuild the existing pack?

[rotorwrench]

A person that has a good press can re-arch springs but they should find a good procedure to perform the task and have a proper arch profiles drawn on a large piece of cardboard so that each the leaf can be re-shaped to its intended profile.

Keep in mind that fatigue is what causes them to lose there original profile so re-arching one will leave it more susceptible to cracking in the future. Time and extended use takes it's toll on everything eventually.

[jeepguy1948]

Who makes the best bolt on modern shock kit for the rear? The back of my RPU is so light that I'm afraid that I won't be able to get shocks that are not too stiff.

[Colonial coupe]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I tried the tube shocks on my 28 coupe, the kits come with gas charged shocks that made the car ride so hard that it was rather unpleasant. Sort of like no springs at all. I have decent originals on front but had none on the rear is why I tried the tube shocks. I have some shocks to rebuild but haven't got to that yet. So for now I've installed a set of the offenhauser friction shocks from Speedway, I'm presently suprised at what a great job that the do. Time will tell how well they hold up. From my experience i wouldn't run the tube shocks on something as light as a rpu unless yo plan on hauling fire wood.

[Herb Concord Ca]

Can you post a picture of the rear shocks mounted. What shock arms did you use?
Thanks

[Dick M]

Give John Holland a call. He rebuilds excellent shocks and is very reasonable.

Shock rebuilder: John Holland 330-483-3896
7208 West Law Rd.
Valley City, OH 44280

[jeepguy1948]

I just ordered a pair of friction shocks from Speedway (the friction disc is replaceable) I would really appreciate some pictures of your installation Colonial, I'm having a little difficulty visualizing the install. Thanks!

[GeneBob]

Originally Posted by Colonial coupe

I tried the tube shocks on my 28 coupe, the kits come with gas charged shocks that made the car ride so hard that it was rather unpleasant. Sort of like no springs at all. I have decent originals on front but had none on the rear is why I tried the tube shocks. I have some shocks to rebuild but haven't got to that yet. So for now I've installed a set of the offenhauser friction shocks from Speedway, I'm presently suprised at what a great job that the do. Time will tell how well they hold up. From my experience i wouldn't run the tube shocks on something as light as a rpu unless yo plan on hauling fire wood.

You need to find non-gas charged shocks if you are going with tube shocks. Some of the kits come with gas charged and some come with non-charged. I got rebuilt shocks from John Holland and they are great. When I first got my Tudor, it had no shocks and rusty springs. I replaced the front spring and rebuilt the rear (along with spring paint) and put on the rebuilt shocks. The car rides very well now and takes bumps without any undue excitement.

[GT1929]

1929 Phaeton bought with no shocks, found some old ones managed to get them apart got them working about 50/50 put them on car the difference was great goes over bumps, etc quite well now.

[woofa.express]

I purchased a set of modern telescopic shocks from Snyders for my 28 ute (pickup) and was most disappointed in the ride. I removed them and whilst the ride was still rough it was just slightly better. On my 28 tourer (phaeton) I ride on MGB shocks, that’s a British sports car and they are good.
The biggest load I’ll carry in my ute will be a couple of small kids. I’d like to remove some leaves from the rear spring. I have seen an article on what to remove and what to retain. Whilst I don’t have it at present I’d like to go further because it will never carry a load.
Does any reader have a suggestion. Thankyou (in anticipation), gary.

[BillCNC]

My car came with only 2 frozon shocks. I just about bought the tube shocks, but I went with the original style for 2 reasons.

1) My car looks pretty close to stock, so I wanted to keep it that way.
2) Most Importantly, ... I didn't want to be the guy who drilled holes into an unmolested frame. I'm funny that way.

YES, at the time in 2017, tube shocks were $400 for the set and the originals were $1200. Do I regret the decision? Not a chance, I'm glad I did it, and would gladly do it all over again.

Regards
Bill

[WHN]

Originally Posted by BillCNC

My car came with only 2 frozon shocks. I just about bought the tube shocks, but I went with the original style for 2 reasons.

1) My car looks pretty close to stock, so I wanted to keep it that way.
2) Most Importantly, ... I didn't want to be the guy who drilled holes into an unmolested frame. I'm funny that way.

YES, at the time in 2017, tube shocks were $400 for the set and the originals were $1200. Do I regret the decision? Not a chance, I'm glad I did it, and would gladly do it all over again.

Regards
Bill

Good for you! All the right reasons.

Enjoy.

[Colonial coupe]

PHP Code:

[PHP] 


[/PHP]

Originally Posted by '28 RPU

I just ordered a pair of friction shocks from Speedway (the friction disc is replaceable) I would really appreciate some pictures of your installation Colonial, I'm having a little difficulty visualizing the install. Thanks!

Sorry but it wouldn't allow me to load more than 2
I made 2 spacers 2" long and 1 5/8" long from heavy wall tubing for each side. Used grade 8 bolts and bent a slight bend in the arm to be sure the nut cleared the body. Very happy so far. Reviews on speedway are pretty good.
Hope this helps.

[Conaway2]

None of the four Model As I’ve owned had shocks on them when I bought the cars, suggesting many A owners did remove the shocks when they either froze up or just stopped working.

Good working shocks make a significant difference in the stability and smoothness of the ride. I have original shocks - rebuilt by John Holland - on both of my cars and am very happy with them.

Good Luck - Jim

[1929]

A while back I purchased a set of 4 shocks from Brattons.

[Gene F]

I have heard the gas charged shocks are terrible too.

[updraught]

Shocks work by trying to force oil via a piston/(vane in the case of a Model A) thru a small hole. The smaller the hole the stiffer they are. It is like trying to force sand thru an hour glass.
https://www.koni.com/en-US/Cars/Tech...ng-Principles/
Gas pressure is added to stop the oil foaming. Foaming causes the shocks to fade as gas can compress. Shock fading is a problem in our outback on poor roads at reasonable speed in hot weather. They can also heat up and burst as they cannot dump heat fast enough.
It may be that gas pressure shocks are made harder? For a Model A with lots of friction between the leaves you won't need hard shocks.

[GT1929]

My Phaeton didn't have any when I got it used to bounce around a bit so I got some old ones that were ok rebuilt them I think to about 50/50 and it made a great difference to the ride and controllability.

[Benson]

I know that this an old posting but present day readers might try Ken Davis in DFW.

http://www.kendavismodela.com/Shocks.html

I do not know if they are still selling them.

I have been told that these shocks are NOT gas charged.

A friend bought a kit from someone else and installed gas shocks.

They rode very hard. I do not know if he tried Ken's shocks since he sold the car and has since died.

In the 60s and 70s when VW Type I (Bug) and Type IIIs (Fastback) were my daily drivers Volkswagen used oil shocks which were NOT gas charged.

VWs were of similar size and weight to Model As.

[katy]

Originally Posted by eagle

A lot of the original shocks are so wore out they dont do anything anyways.

Ditto

[Brentwood Bob]

I have several sets of originals for sale. I am rebuilding some cores.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315540
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311643

[Russ B]

I got my 29 cabriolet in 1958-59 and none of the shocks were functioning after 100,000+ miles. I imagine that was the case for most A’s still running by then. As I recall a couple of the links were still present and at least one arm was broken. The shock bodies were all frozen. By the time I got it running again as my high school car, all the links and arms were off and at least a couple of the shock bodies were removed. So I drove it that way until I retired it for a hot rodded A Tudor with tube shocks. When I got back to rebuilding the cabriolet in recent years, I installed tube shocks. They are a definite improvement over none, but many miles have been put on many A’s with no shocks by most of who were driving A’s since the fifties and sixties.

[Synchro909]

I thoroughly agree with those who have said that the ride and controllability of a Model A without shockers is terrible and that the telescopic ones available from the vendors are too hard for a passenger car. I suspect they are sold as being for a Model A but are actually from another application and using them on our cars is a compromise. I wonder what is involved to have some made to the same specs except a softer ride. IMO, the first vendor to do it will sell a heap of them before others catch on.

[Osage Orange]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Back in 1969 I had no shocks when I bought my '29 standard coupe. I bought some of the stamped steel friction shocks from JC Whitney and installed them. They broke at the frame within two weeks. I didn't bother to replace or repair them after that, just drove it knowing the car would be a handful, and it was.

[updraught]

Most of the reports on this forum from Ken Davis seem to be good. If he has figured out which valve size (it's just a hole to let the oil thru) then why not use those?
If you buy something like Koni shocks they can be tuned for the vehicle. Tuning is changing the size of the hole. Small hole for the oil, hard. Big hole soft. No rocket science here!
The utes/pickups have whopping great rear spring. It is unlikely to move without added weight. I've still got an Aussie ute 13 leaf spring that was reset. It won't compress without about 8 tons of super. To match a shock to it you need no compression resistance, and lots of rebound resistance to stop the whip lash of the spring letting go. A lot of the bad ride can be from the jarring of a spring letting go.
With old leaf springs they are not going to need as much resistance as modern coil springs. The coils have virtually no resistance built in and are undriveable without shocks.

[Joe K]

I did not have shocks on my truck (avatar pix.) It was um, ok on the road while in that condition.

By degrees I went through the undercarriage: high speed rear end, new front spring, brake linings/adjustment, new king-pins, lubricate springs.

Everything I did until the last increased my driving pleasure. Lubricating the springs made the car "galloping gertie" - like those kid shoes which propel you as you hop along.

I put the original front spring on and an ungreased rear spring from a Tudor (not quite as stiff as the pickup spring but still 10 leaves) and the car was restored to road-ability.

So lubrication CAN be a downside to handling.

Of course thinking on this - a perfectly adequate shock was available until late in the 1950s in a "friction shock" - which combined with spring lubrication might give you some degree of "control" to the rebound. A fairly instructive write-up at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fricti...shock_absorber

I see they're still around - and not frightfully expensive either. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Offen...BoC480QAvD_BwE

There is a principle in mechanics called "critical damping." A mass/spring combination will "vibrate" at some near natural frequency when displaced and released. Add in friction and you can create an "underdamped system" (i.e. a system with rebound/oscillation) or an "overdamped" system. (i.e. a system where oscillation is damped to the point where the system is "slow" to return to neutral.)

The optimal condition and I expect this is the case of car suspension is when the oscillation is "matched" by the friction to create a "critical" system - neither overdamped or underdamped but somewhere in-between. The nice thing about critical system is that the system finds its "neutral" in a minimum amount of time. More on "damping" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping

This kind of goes along with diagnosis of car mechanics when asked if your car needs shocks. They'll push down on the corner of the car and release testing all four corners: if the car makes a couple of oscillations before it settles down - you need shocks. Might be a good test of friction or houdaille type shock adjustment?

Joe K

[updraught]

With coil springs and a shock like the Koni Special D which are ideal for older more primitive suspension (this is where Koni made their name) you can adjust up the rebound only, quite hard. The compression resistance is almost zero. If you adjust it up too hard you can feel the wheels not coming down fast enough after a bump. They are basically leaving the road, so just back them off a bit and they are fine. You are good to go. A bit of testing/tuning and you'll get it right.
Supposedly, if you were on a rough road and the shocks are too tight then the suspension won't return to ride height fast enough and will get lower. Have't been there tho.

[Benson]

I bought Koni Shocks for the 1969 VW Fastback Type III (The fuel injected 65 HP model) in 1969.

Adjustment was easy.

1. Unbolt bottom of shock.

2. Collapse shock until it bottoms out.

3. Engage a slot for the valve in bottom of shock.

4. Turn CW to increase dampening.

5. Turn CCW to reduce dampening.

6. Extend shock and bolt it back up.

I do not know if they still work that way but that is how they worked 50 years ago.

[Benson]

BTW the Model A Coupe had no shocks for the first 40,000 miles I drove it.

This worked fine until I replaced the rusty springs.

Then I needed shocks ... car was all over the road.

[springerpete]

Just put4 Stipe shocks on my '29 roadster, What a big difference it made. On our bumpy rural roads I have better control and a smoother ride.

[nkaminar]

I take my socks off every night when I go to bed.

[katy]

Originally Posted by nkaminar

I take my socks off every night when I go to bed.

Why? You'll just have to put them back on again in the mornin'.

[Aretino]

When I purchased my car the shocks were totally worn out. I purchased a new set of Stipe shocks and the ride difference is amazing. It was an expensive repair but well worth it in my opinion.

[jack backer]

Got a set of friction shocks in a deal. Had to fab a mount for the rear. Cleaned polished and keep spring lubed. They work ok at dampening rebound and the car is safe at speed. Got to adjust them periodically, especially the rears,hey, you have to get under the car occasionally anyway..

[Pamodelaroadster]

I’m thinking this winter when I replace the leaf springs I’ll buy a set of more modern shocks at the same time. My car is mostly stock so I hate to do it but less expensive and better has a certain appeal also.

[ahirt]

Ken Davis' shocks are bolt on rears. I put a pair on my 29 CCPU. These shocks he uses are are from a 65 Mustang rear. They have a 6.5 inch compressible length which is very close to the distance that the original Houdaille shock travels. The 65 Mustang weighed 2800 lbs. The 29 CCPU weighs 2300 and can carry a load of about 500 lbs in the bed. I have not found anyone else's tube shock kits that are anywhere close to these specs. I am impressed about how well they work.

[gdmn852]

Hello, with a car as light as roadsters are , they do need shocks, mine would almost fly over rough roads with bad shocks ,replaced with new original type holds the road much better and ride is also improved.If you have the ability, I would get a set of rebuilds or new original shocks, sounds like the tube type, not sure what you might be getting, the original type be a direct bolt on and work correctly. Don’t want to have to buy them twice.

[alexiskai]

I have a full set of Ken's shocks on a coupe, I like them. One thing to be aware of, if your front springs are worn, and the shackle is drooping close to the axle, that reduces the amount of travel the shock has, which isn't a lot to begin with.