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#1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Gladstone, OR
Posts: 170
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So this past weekend was beautiful in Portland so i drove my 1955 Crown Victoria 292 with fordomatic. Its generally my daily if its not raining. once, it wouldn't go in reverse (last year) on a trip - likely unrelated to this weekends events. Its been beautiful, but cold (30-45 degrees). On two separate trips as i was accelerating, the engine would suddenly for split second rev higher almost like the load of the car was removed or the transmission was in neutral as i continued to accelerate. I would instantly ease off the gas and it would go away but this happened several times (although it seemed like after warming up this would stop).
Any thoughts as to why this occurred? Does it mean anything? I've never had any real issues with the engine or transmission except the one time it wouldn't go in reverse. Also, it does always take and 4-5 seconds to engage in reverse and engages faster/better if i pull the choke out a bit to bring up the rpms. Is there anything preventative i can do? |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: p.e.i.
Posts: 1,060
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sounds like you need a fluid change.ive had newer ones that wouldnt go into gear on a cold morning till i tried a couple of times. a fluid changed fixed it.if you do take of the base and clean the screen.
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#3 |
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Gladstone, OR
Posts: 170
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OK. Currently it shifts very softly/smoothly. Should i ask my mechanic to use a specific type of fluid to maintain this smooth shifting? Is that Type F ATF?
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#4 |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: p.e.i.
Posts: 1,060
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there are others here that know the type.
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#5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St. Michael, Minnesota
Posts: 1,713
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The symptoms say its low on oil.
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#6 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: St. Michael, Minnesota
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#7 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,436
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The FOM operates on pressure. There was no vacuum modulator till the 1961 Cruise-O-Matics came out. The Throttle Valve (TV) rod operates the pressure. More throttle equals more pressure since they correlate to each other. The TV rod may need to be adjusted to firm up the shift a little more. Soft shifts are OK as long as it doesn't slip. Slippage is indicated when rpm rises from normal as was previously stated. A low pressure situation like this indicates a need for a pressure test. The pressure should be tested through the range. Low pressure that can not be brought up within a little adjustment of the rod is generally due to some other problem inside. It can be a seal leak on a clutch piston or a band piston or even a damaged internal fluid tube or seal ring. In any case, that needs to be checked before the clutches get fried. Any slippage on a clutch will fry the plates if they are still the old metallic types.
If you do an oil & filter change, you will be able to quickly tell if something has slipped too much inside. The oil will smell burned and there will be metal in the pan. Clutches are steel and bronze in the old FOMs so the particles can be either. The bands can be adjusted too if they need it and the oil looks OK. The Ford-O-Matics and the Cruise-O-matics both have a similar valve body. The fit of the valves inside the body it close tolerance. If any particles of crap get in there then the valves get sticky. When they are cold the valves get sticky. After they transmission warms up they work just fine but when still cold, they are quirky to shift. When they are right, they work really well but when something is wrong, they talk to you and it's isn't always a polite conversation. |
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#8 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 3,779
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If the engine suddenly speeds up when accelerating ("flares") when it is shifting into third, and doesn't go into reverse at times, it is likely a bad seal on the direct/reverse piston.
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#9 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Granite City, Illinois
Posts: 3,008
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The manufacturers recommended fluid is Type "A". If you cannot find type A, Dexron/Mercon fluid is the modern replacement of type A and it is available everywhere.
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#10 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,436
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Type F is the FoMoCo replacement for the Borg Warner series of transmissions from FOM thru FMX. Type A had whale oil in it as a friction modifier. That went away when they put a moratorium on whaling so the manufacturers came up with replacements at that time. Ford Came up with type F and GM stayed with their Dexron which was a modification of type B. Ford changed types with the C6 due to the change of clutch materials but the FMX still used type F.
Some drag racers used type F in their modified power glides to get a more positive shift. The metal clutch plates need a positive shift too. Conditioners can be added for the valve body function but that's about it. |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Gladstone, OR
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thanks for all the info. I think i am going to just print this threads, especially rotorwrench and 40 Deluxe's technical comments to give to my mechanic. My mechanic is great, but i think they might appreciate everyone's specific experience. I did a lot of research last night and my manual does say to use type A, and it does seem like Dexron is the modern equivalent. I may also just add that quart of Dexron, although i don't know whats currently in it. My research suggests that mixing F and A is not a big deal (?)Thanks everyone!
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#12 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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A lot of Type F is marked as type F/A. Type A no longer exists in it's original form and since it is an obsolete type and no longer regulated they can say a quart is type A when it is in fact a Dexron type. It just depends on the company that does the blending and packaging. If you have doubts about what fluid to use just ask an old time transmission man.
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#13 |
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Gladstone, OR
Posts: 170
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I finally checked my fluid level and when off, it’s slightly above full so problems due to low fluid are unlikely. It says on the stick to check when in idle but I’m doubting it makes much difference.
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#14 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY
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The fluid must be checked when hot and in idle.
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#15 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Kent, WA. Tucson, AZ
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“Must” is the operative word. And “Hot” and “idle”
Many auto trans drain back and give bad readings when not at idle. I was taught to warm it up, place it into reverse and drive, then neutral or park and check the level. |
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#16 |
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: s/w Iowa
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try a can of 30w engine oil. it will thicken the oil and get you by until it is rebuilt to replace the leaking piston seal.
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#17 |
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Gladstone, OR
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So I checked the transmission while hot and after putting it in reverse, Park, Drive and it has plenty of fluid. Mechanic said it’s clean and looks good. So that is not an issue, but my mechanic did addofluid to the transmission that is supposed to help with that, I don’t know what he added it specifically. This morning while cold, transmission seem to be acting up again so I’m stumped. I can’t honestly tell if it is slipping, or Flaring as another member said. If it’s slipping type F fluid should help with that altho dexron ( type A) is more correct. Any other tests you guys know of to figure out why it’s doing this?
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#18 | |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 3,779
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On this trans it is very easy to do an air pressure check for leaking piston and servo seals. Get a shop manual which shows how to drop the valve body and which ports to blow compressed air into. |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange Park, Fl
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The problem is that the seals are getting old and hard. Pust some Trans-Lube friction modifier in and drive for long enough to soak at operating temperature for at least 10 minutes. This will most likely give you a few more years of service. If you want to change the fluid, the Havoline Global Multi-Vehicle ATF will work in most vehicles just fine; including the old Fords. Let us know how this works out. Sounds like you don't need a fluid change, though.
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#20 | |
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Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY
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You are beating yourself to death here. 1) The pan has to be dropped to see what lies on the bottom. 2) If no big pieces, you need to perform a manual flush to rid the trans/conv of trash. 3) The trans has to have the bands adjusted, period and confirm proper fluid pressure. 4) Check TV linkage adjustments and shift selector adj/bushings. 5) Need to refill with TYPE F (IMO) as it has a better detergent package. Add a Trans conditioner. 6) Drive the car for a minimum of thirty days to hopefully allow the internal seals to swell and rid itself of varnish. 7) At the minimum, a drop and drain (another complete flush would be more beneficial). 8) If the trans does not operate correctly after this, it needs to go onto a forensics bench. AGAIN- TYPE A fluid was replaced in the early sixties. DEXRON is the replacement (DEXRON III currently). Get your mind off of TYPE A. It's only use now is as a hydraulic fluid.
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***** - WHY IS IT ... ![]() ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ...
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#21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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All the cruise-o-matics I have had experience with in the past (used cars with plenty of mileage), did not shift correctly till they were completely warmed up. It takes a few miles of driving to warm them up in cold weather. In extreme cold it takes longer. In warmer months, they generally function normally from the get go but may have a funky first cycle depending on the days temperature.
After 60+ years a person should expect them to be in need of new rubber if nothing else. If a person knows its history then it's easier to guestimate when it might need to be renewed inside. If it's funky all the time then it's time. If you use a "multi" synthetic ATF and expect it to be a one type works for all, Good Luck. Synthetic may work for a trans with new seals but it will likely leak from old ones. I'd stick with Type F myself. This is a Borg Warner design with metal friction plates. Few other companys used all metallic plates very long. Even FoMoCo eventually changed to composite types with steels. Last edited by rotorwrench; 02-02-2019 at 11:11 AM. |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Gladstone, OR
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I disagree with Kultulz and "won't get my mind off type A". Per my manual it is recommended and have been using its modern equivalent. However, i am having systems that could be explained by slipping, bands, dried seals, wrong fluid being used in the past, etc. Currently I can't even back out of the sunken garage i rent. It hits the inclined drive and doesn't have enough power to make it up the hill. Long story short, i might change the transmission fluid as this is the cheaper and easiest option but the car is elsewhere so i can't look at it. Whats required to change the fluid? I am assuming a 55 crown won't have a drain plug, so id have to drop the pan and gasket? I'd want to have all the parts ordered and ready to do this all in one day if i go to the bother of towing the car out of the garage.So... Whats the pain in the ass factor here? Alternatively i may just to it to a shop to go over it and just fix it all, right, the first time. I admit I'm getting quite irritated over this am close to just making it the mechanics problem
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#23 |
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Join Date: Apr 2018
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$1300 a few months ago. that is with me doing the remove and replace
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#24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,436
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There really is no modern equivalent to whale oil. If it isn't whale oil then it is something else other then type A. If you do pull the pan then you can see if there is any metal in there. This would indicate that it's time for new clutches anyway. Hopefully the case is in good condition. I've found a lot of cruise-O-matics were cracked over the years and the ford-Os can crack too. Many cars ended up in the salvage yards due to bad transmissions.
Cost depends on condition of hard parts. If they are all still in good condition, it will be a more reasonable cost. If it needs a bunch of parts then it will get expensive. |
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#25 |
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Wisconsin
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I have to agree, I agree with K-Klutz here. Why is everyone so reluctant to admit a 50 plus year old trans is no longer in good condition? And added to the fact the cars are seldom driven doesn't help either. And again, use type F
Last edited by packrat5; 03-30-2019 at 07:40 PM. |
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#26 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Granite City, Illinois
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I recommend changing the fluid to the most recommended equivalent to type "A" which is Mercon/Dexron, or Dexron III. Some large chain farm supply outlets still offer Type "A", but if your local auto parts store does not carry it, don't sweat it, just get Dexron. I have been running Dexron in my '55 Ford-O-Matic for 40 plus years and only changed it once in all that time 20ish years ago. When I did the trans rebuild at that time, the trans repair shop told me they could have re-installed the old brass clutch disc plates as they were still good as gold. I have heard too many complaints about using type "F" in Ford-O-Matics such as clunking in gear and hard or clunky shifting. You can easily change your own fluid by unscrewing the trans dipstick tube on the passenger side of the trans fluid pan. Drain the fluid into an oil change pan under the car. I recommend also removing the four bolts that hold the front "half-moon" inspection plate from the bellhousing. Rotate the converter until one of the plugs is at the very bottom and remove the plug to drain that fluid. Re-install the plug and inspection plate. Re-install the dipstick tube. The Ford-O-Matic holds 19 pints of fluid. I like to use a funnel with long spout inserted into the dipstick tube opening under the hood and start filling fluid there. After filling with about 3-1/2 to 4 quarts, start the engine, leave trans in neutral and let 'er warm up. Check fluid level with dipstick. Add fluid as needed. DO NOT overfill, or you will blow it out your seals. |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Gladstone, OR
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Thanks Dave! And at Packrat, i am definitely putting miles on this baby.
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#28 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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I'll say it again, Type F for Fords with all metallic clutches. That's what the stuff was designed for. Dexron was designed for GM transmissions with a mix of steel and composite plates. Type F will make a power glide drab better when banging it at the drag strip.
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