Generator 3rd Brush Adjustment Explanation

[mshmodela]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Here is the end plate for the 1929 through early 1930 generator with the ball bearing rear end plate. I need to take the same pictures for the bushing end plate. Everything is the same except for the bearing vs. the bushing.

I put too much grease in the bearing and had to remove some. Notice the thin brush is the adjustable brush, and the short side of each brush faces the pivot on the brush holder.

Nice and clean... wow! What did you use to clean the end cap?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Mike, I first rinse the parts off with gas to get rid of any oil and loose dirt. I made a wood plug to stick in the end bushing, then sandblast it. I set it on a tin can to paint it, and this way I get a clean line of paint about 1/4" in from the edge.

After a light sandblast be sure to flex the brush holder springs while blowing with compressed air to get all the grit out of the springs and pivots. You can feel when they are clean. I then put a drop of oil on the spring coils and pivots.

[1946]

Many thanks Tom. You are a mine of information. I will carefully restore the "Powerhouse" and replace the somewhat iffy alternator. Do you or one of the suppliers supply a 12v 'electronic' regulator which is available for negative earth, again many thanks for the help.

[Nasukau]

Thanks again to everyone who responded

Tom,
I did the jump lead and that gave me +7 charge on the ammeter. Looks like I need to get a new cutout.

I sure do appreciate this forum and the incredible amount of knowledge that is here.

Denny

[Nasukau]

I replaced the cutout. But still have some questions. When I start the car the ammeter stays on zero. As I rev up the engine the ammeter goes to +5. If I press the brake pedal while it is revved up the ammeter drops back to zero. If I turn the lights on with the engine revved up it goes to -10 on the ammeter. Is this normal? Also after I shut the car off it goes from zero to -10. I am confused on what is causing the discharging.

I also am posting a picture of my generator as I am not sure what this other part is(big red arrow) and what is it used for that is attached to cutout. I put back everything that was wired to the old cutout. There is also a fuse(big yellow arrow) attached to the cutout and not sure why it is there. And it was very hot to the touch after I shut off the car.

Thanks,
Denny

[Patrick L.]

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The ammeter is now working as it should. +5 amps is OK for daylight driving. Because there is no regulation, the charge rate is constant.
Any load will detract from the charge rate/ ammeter reading. Thats normal.
What is not normal is the discharge when everything is off. One of the last thing that should be looked at when leaving the car is the ammeter to make sure its reading zero. If there is a discharge then something is on. A common item are the brake lights/ switch.
The capacitor that is attached to your generator looks like a feeble attempt to quiet/filter out noise from it for radio suppression or some such thing. It doesn't need to be there.
Where does the fuse go ? I can't tell from the picture. It kinda looks like the one end is attached to the generator case. That shouldn't be there either.

[Nasukau]

One end of the fuse it attached on the cutout with the capacitor. The other end is coming out of the generator. I will remove both items.

Thanks,
Denny

[Nasukau]

I removed the capacitor and the fuse. Started the car and the ammeter was at zero. Turned it off and it went to -10. I checked and the brake lights were off and headlights were not on. I disconnected the battery cable and ammeter went back to zero. Reconnected the battery and ammeter stayed at zero. The disconnect and reconnect of the battery were within 5 seconds of each other. Why would it not show a discharge when the battery was reconnected?

Thanks,
Denny

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Nasukau

I removed the capacitor and the fuse. Started the car and the ammeter was at zero. Turned it off and it went to -10. I checked and the brake lights were off and headlights were not on. I disconnected the battery cable and ammeter went back to zero. Reconnected the battery and ammeter stayed at zero. The disconnect and reconnect of the battery were within 5 seconds of each other. Why would it not show a discharge when the battery was reconnected?

Thanks,
Denny

Do you have a reproduction ammeter?

[Nasukau]

Yes Mike I do

Denny

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by 1946

Being of an enquiring mind, I was wondering what is the full unregulated output voltage of a pancake style generator. The reason being I would like to try and maintain as much of an orignal look but run a 12v system. My question is can a pancake generator be used in a 12v negative ground system.
I can guess the first answer being why not maintain a standard 6v pos ground system. I have portable HAM radio gear I may wish to use, and other electroinc equipment I can hide. Sorry for the thread diversion.

Yes there is a voltage regulator that takes the place of the cutout that will allow you to run 12 volt negative ground with your powerhouse model A generator. Try www.funprojects.com [email protected] The part number for the 12 volt negative ground regulator is 10505R-N12V price $77.25 I run the 12 volt positive ground version regulator on my roadster for the past 8 going on 9 years with great performance.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Nasukau

Yes Mike I do

Denny

Your cutout is sticking closed. You can double check this by removing the wires on the front side of the cutout and see if the ammeter drops back to zero when you shut the car off.

[Nasukau]

Tom,
I was finally able to check by removing the wires. The ammeter went back to zero. So basically I received a defective new cutout. Is there a way to fix it? Or just replace it?

Denny

[larrys40]

Denny,
it looks like you have one of the cheap reproduction cutouts. They are junk. The spring tension on the upper contact is poor and doesn't help to pull the contact away when the output voltage of the generator drops to idle and below the battery voltage. I know that sounds technical... but just trying to explain what's happening.

Get a good original cutout ( may need restoring) or I believe Tom is still making the voltage regulators that fit inside the generator. Still available Tom?

Also.. if you choose the diode type are available.. Just a quick tip... the last thing I look at when I get out of a Model A is the ammeter. Look to make sure you do NOT have a discharge. if you do, you have a short/draw on the battery. Could be sticking cutout, light switch, lights, etc. It will save you trouble later by just giving it a quick wink. A Fuse won't blow unless the load/short, is greater than the fuse rating.

Happy Model A motoring!
Larry Shepard

[Tom Wesenberg]

Bert's sells restored original cutouts as well as diode cutouts. Either one will work fine, but I always use restored original cutouts myself. I know A&L makes or sells a good diode cutout, and I think several of the other dealers may sell it also.

If you can't tell an original cutout by looks or weight, then measure the ohms from the input terminal to the case. An original cutout has more copper wire and measures about 50 ohms, while the repros measure only about 20 to 30 ohms.

[Nasukau]

Thanks Larry and Tom.

Denny

[Purdy Swoft]

Cutouts can be easily converted to diode for a few dollars. Brattons and Snyders sell diodes with simple installation instructions. All you really need is an electric soldering gun and som rosin core solder. I have converted several old cutouts that no longer worked, original and repro to diode for less than ten bucks. The diode converted cutouts still look the same as before being converted and have no points to stick. I now run the Fun Projects can style voltage regulator that replaces the cutout. The Fun Projects regulator costs more than a diode conversion but gives voltage regulation and still looks like the early cutout. Other than a simple third brush adjustment the can style regulator is as simple as installing a cutout. Check out WWW.funprojects.com . They have regulators that will work on six, eight or twelve volt with no modification to the generator. Before the guy that always likes to knock this product comes on , I will just say that myself and many, many others have used this type regulator for many years without a minutes problem. All voltage regulators work in different ways and the only thing that matters to me is the fact that it gives voltage regulation and retains an original appearance. It doesn't get any easier or better in my opinion.

[Scott McDermott]

In response to #20
Tom - Does this mean my stock 37 generator is capable of of producing 12v with no internal modification? Would I need to change the cut out to a voltage regulator?

[Badpuppy]

Short answer, Scott, is yes, no modification. Just change the battery; cutout will work. What won't work are 6V bulbs, coil, horn and electric wipers.

Best not to add to an old thread, start a new one. We haven't heard from Tom in a while, he's in and out lately.