Help identifying a 1931 roadster

[36 conv sedan]

Hi Guys,

A friend of mine is offering me what he says is a 1931 Deluxe roadster. I am going to go and see it on monday, but it is about a 10 hour drive round trip, so I better know what to look for, and I have a few questions:

First of all, the car was very poorly restored, but using good labor. What I mean is they stripped the body and chassis and started restoring everything but did it with no information and therefore not in the correct colors or methods. I see it as a good base to do a proper restoration on it, taking into account that body and theoretically mechanical components are fine.

I have browsed the net trying to find the differences between a Deluxe and a Standard roadster and from what I understand and the pics I have, it does appear to be a 1931 deluxe, because of the cowl lights and the lower windshield (or so it appears to me) but I also understand the Deluxes had the top bows in chrome and wood, and this one would seem to have the standard roadster type of bows, so I am puzzled.

As for being a 1930 or 31 model, the grill is supposed to have the chrome emblem, and it shows the blue one, but Iguess that could have easily changed, and I can't see well enough in the pics to see if the grill shows the indented area supposed to be painted, as 1931 models are supposed to have with the chrome emblem. The stoneguard does not allow me to see it well.

Interior was also done without information and would need to be replaced, at least the door panels but probably most or all of it.
It does have the round speedometer, therefore if I understand correctly it must be a late 1930 or 1931 model.

Can any of you experts take a look and give me your opinion of it being a standard or a deluxe? 1930 or 1931?

Thanks,
victor

[36 conv sedan]

And here are the interior pics plus the engine pics.

Battery is terribly placed and the car was converted to 12 volts and has a radio installed!

Again, I see it as a potential restoration proyectt which would need to be restored to original configuration, but would love to start with a good base and not with one that has been converted to something else, so I'd love to find out wether it is a 1931 Deluxe, as he says and it appears, though the top bows puzzle me a lot...

Thanks,
victor

[flatford39]

The shell is a 30. The aprons are 31. The horn is not correct. I can't tell from the pics about the windshield stanchions. You need to measure them when you get there. Deluxe I think are around 11" and standards are 13" if memory is correct.

Count the screws in the a pillar holding the door hinges on. Early 30's only had two screws in the bottom hinge and all 31's have three.

What's the title say???

[Tom Wesenberg]

Your water outlet on the head appears to be the shorter 28-9 style. The paint looks to be in great condition, and I like the colors, so if it was mine I'd just make sure everything is lubed and working correctly, and drive it.

[2manycars]

It looks to me like a late 30 standard roadster with cowl lamps added. The long splash aprons came into use in late 30. It has been converted to 12 volts with the battery on the firewall, and an alternator. The rear bumper spreader bar looks home made.
Are the fenders steel or fiberglass? Any body filler in the body? It looks shiny, but odd colors and even the steering wheel is painted. The standard top irons should have a black top, not tan. It has a tillotson carburetor.

[emf]

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You also have a Model B engine, I think a plus... Nice looking car...

Frank

[36 conv sedan]

flatford39:

Title says 1931, and the three screws on the lower hinge would appear to prove it. Thanks for the tip! I amplified the pic and it seems to have them.

Sorry for my lack of english... I am from Mexico... By aprons you mean the top bows? Are they different between a 1930 deluxe and a 1931 deluxe?

[36 conv sedan]

It does look nice, and paint is great, on an all steel body, but I would love to have it back to original, probably in black and blue, and I would not like to have a hard time finding parts, so I am going for it only if it is mostly complete. I am really concerned about the windshield and top, if they are correct for a Deluxe or not. If they are, then the car must be a 1931 with the wrong grill, as I read all the 1930 Deluxe models had the fender spares, which this car does not have.

So far, from what I read, it is either a later 1930 or 1931 model (the 3 screws in the lower hinge, longer aprons, and round speedometer)

The B motor is something I am not looking forward to. how to you tell them appart from a correct A motor?

Thanks!
Victor

[mike657894]

hide the battery back under the floor boards. paint the fenders black and drive it.

[wrndln]

A model B motor has a fuel pump port on the lower, front right side of the engine . In your 4th picture, you can see it is blocked off with a plate and 2 bolts. Even though the car is definitely not restored with original colors and has some extra "goodies" on it and a number of non-original items, it doesn't look too bad. I agree that if the fenders and splash aprons were painted black, like they should be, the car would look a lot better. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but model A's in my opinion, should have black fenders on them. Even though the roadster is "dolled up" it looks decent. It would take some effort to make the car look like it was originally made, but if you are not a purest, doing a few things, or doing nothing, would be an option and just driving it.
Rusty Nelson

[western77]

The B has a small plate with 2bolts holding it to the block just above the oil pan towards the front of the engine carb side. It also has no external oil return from the valve chamber. The valve cover is taller. JB

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Oh boy, that would be a good part time job making everything correct. It appears to be a 31 standard roadster. The engine has the block off plate where the fuel pump sits on the Model B (right side engine view). I would tend to leave the paint alone other than painting the fenders and splash aprons black. The phillips head screws should be replaced with straight slotted screws. Interior looks nice as is but the seats and inner panels would be black on a std. roadster.

[Patrick L.]

About the only way I can tell the years apart are the lower 3 screw hinges and the windshield height .
Anything can be changed and its hard to tell what has been done over the years. But, those 2 things probably tend to stay with the vehicle.
The windshield height is 15" on Std and 13" on Deluxe. But, that too can be changed quite easily.
The Std are rare, more Deluxe were made. Plus, many Stds were 'Deluxed'.

[mike657894]

From looking at all the roadsters online. You are right about the wood bows. wood being prone to rot and other problems it was probably replaced with a metal reproduction when it was restored.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by 36 conv sedan

And here are the interior pics plus the engine pics.

Battery is terribly placed and the car was converted to 12 volts and has a radio installed!

Again, I see it as a potential restoration proyectt which would need to be restored to original configuration, but would love to start with a good base and not with one that has been converted to something else, so I'd love to find out wether it is a 1931 Deluxe, as he says and it appears, though the top bows puzzle me a lot...

Thanks,
victor

Hey Victor,
Wow, what a mix of parts ! It looks great to me and I wouldn't change a thing, at least right away !
Yeah, most obvious is the standard top IRONS.
The rest is a (mis) mixed/match.
I look at this and wonder where the heck did they get all those different year parts from to put together...must have been work !
I like the '32 B engine ! What transmission does this car have ?
Seems to me, from your statements, that you have a good idea what has gone on here ?

BTW..I sure would have liked to have all of those nifty parts to start off with , when starting with my '30 'deluxe' roadster. This one LOOKS a heck of lot better than mine ..lol

Does anyone have a guess/clue what those two silver 'caps' are ...one near breather cap, and one under corner of battery box ??

[Stretch Cab]

I used to live near the DF as I see the car is from. If you buy the car it might be good to have the car delivered to the outside of the city as the Federal Police do not like private people towing anything in the city. I found this out the very hard way!

Also, might give an idea of the price as there may be better deals available out of some of the border states.

[Charlie Stephens]

Is the title clean? The serial number for the car is stamped into the top of the frame but it is under the front of the body where it cannot be seen without lifting the body. Most cars were registered either by the engine number or a tag attached by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). Since the engine is a Model B there is no number on the block unless someone stamped it there (beginning in 1932 the blocks were not numbered). Stamping a number into the side of the block (or anywhere else) will get you in trouble in most states). Does the number on the title match something on the car? If the paperwork doesn't match the number on the car it might be more trouble than it is worth.

Charlie Stephens

[36 conv sedan]

Thank you all for your input.

I am not sure we are talking about a real salad... or a lot of mixed components, that is, other than the engine and top bows.

If I am right, from your comments, it is a late 1930 or 1931 model (the 3 screws in the lower hinge, longer aprons, and round speedometer), and due to the apparent windshield height (which I need to measure next week) it could very well be a Deluxe from origin, in which the incorrect bows may have been placed, same as a 1930 grill and of course, the engine and hydraulic brakes... which may be not that rare in a model A. True, it is far off from a good original, which would be a dream to own, but I guess that finding an engine from an A is not that difficult (in fact, a friend down here who has a couple of A's is telling me he has a couple of extra engines and he likes the B engine, so maybe I can talk him into selling me an engine already done (he is a great mechanic, expert on T's and A's) or perhaps giving my B engine as a part trade.

I do not know what has gone into the car but I know the owner who is a good friend of mine and who has his own shop and does things well done in the sense of good labor but always according to his own tastes which as you see difer from original, so I am pretty sure the body will be fine, but again, it would be a good basis for me.

If I can get a correct A engine from my friend, and find a set of good or reproduction top irons for the Deluxe, I believe I would have the correct components to make it look again like a 1931 Deluxe... or wouldn't I?

I could paint fender and aprons black and use it as is for a good while, and eventually restore it in it's correct colors.

The car is in Cuernavaca, and I live in Queretaro, so I do have to go through the DF (Mexico city), but no doubt I would hire a plataform to do the move. It is a 5 or 6 hour trip, considering little traffic in the big city.

Thanks again for all the help,
victor

[36 conv sedan]

Charlie:

Our posts crossed. Thanks for the explanation on block numbers.

I have no idea how the car is titled to far... and my friend is not computer-friendly, so I will have to take a look at the car next monday morning in Cuernavaca (a city 1.5 hours from Mexico city) and hopefully see the papers back in Mexico city in the afternoon. If things match, they I could go ahead and get it.

If they don't, as you say, it would be trouble, more than it is worth, but I would still like to explore the possibility of getting it.

Question: How can I tell a 1931 model A ford engine from an earlier one? Do have have stamped numbers? I am hoping my friend might have a 1931 engine among the two he has...

thanks,
victor

[36 conv sedan]

Oh, and about price...

My friend is asking $16,000, which is not cheap, but again, there are not many available around down here, and buying one in the US and getting it down here would cost me 75% over the cost of the car (duties and taxes plus transport). I don’t know for how much you could get an equivalent condition car (working, to be restored) in the US, but then adding those costs would render it forbiddingly expensive compared to their market value.

Victor