Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question

[19Fordy]

Instead of using the long bearing B-7121 at the rear of the 1932-50 Ford
#7111 countershaft, would it be ok to cut and shorten the split spacer tube and install 2 short bearings (B-7118) instead of the one long bearing? I am thinking that increasing the actual amount of bearing surface for the shaft would be beneficial.

It's just an idea?

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Instead of using the long bearing B-7121 at the rear of the 1932-50 Ford
#7111 countershaft, would it be ok to cut and shorten the split spacer tube and install 2 short bearings (B-7118) instead of the long bearing?

It's just an idea?

[19Fordy]

Thank you, Pete.

[Tim Ayers]

Interesting idea. I don't see why not, but would like to hear other reasons we may be overlooking. When I did mine, I shortened the spacer in order to use two long bearings for the same reason you mentioned in your post.

[40cpe]

Is the ID of the cluster gear machined to the bearing OD all the way through, or just in the area the bearing is supposed to run on?

[J Franklin]

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Is there a reason behind this idea? I just see more parts to fail.

[19Fordy]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Interesting idea. I don't see why not, but would like to hear other reasons we may be overlooking. When I did mine, I shortened the spacer in order to use two long bearings for the same reason you mentioned in your post.

I just measured the dia. of the countershaft. It's .748in. dia. along its entire length from end to end.
The reason for this this idea is twofold:

1. to increase and utilize the bearing support surface.

2. CW MOSS reports that the repro. bearings are of low quality and they won't sell them. Therefore, I was thinking using 2 good condition used Ford bearings would be a safe bet.

[Will Kimble]

Don’t think the cluster is machined to accommodate that

[rotorwrench]

The rear end of the gear may have had more load on it than the front. Ford had some reason but I'm no engineer so I can only guess.

[19Fordy]

Originally Posted by Will Kimble

Don’t think the cluster is machined to accommodate that

Mr. Kimble is correct. I just measured the internal bore of the cluster gears 68-7113 and 022-7113-A and both are machined internally at both ends to accomodate the Ford specified roller bearings in their correct OEM positions on the shaft.
My idea won't work. THANK YOU Mr. Kimble.

[cas3]

The guy's on my jeep forums take the cage apart, get rid of it, and then fill it with rollers all the way around like the newer version of counter shafts. You then need the hardened washers between the end of the tube and the needles. Same size shaft so that stuff would be available thru jeep places, and probably Mac VP also as the Fords did this in 52 or so.

I will add, I recently had my freshly rebuilt transfer case fail after only 4K miles when the chinese caged roller bearings on the intermediate shaft fell apart and then the cage and needles flopped around destroying everything. Bummer! I was so happy with the rebuild, no leaks, gave no indication of problems until it locked up 5 miles from home.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

I just measured the dia. of the countershaft. It's .748in. dia. along its entire length from end to end.
The reason for this this idea is twofold:

1. to increase and utilize the bearing support surface.

2. CW MOSS reports that the repro. bearings are of low quality and they won't sell them. Therefore, I was thinking using 2 good condition used Ford bearings would be a safe bet.

Jim:

Call Mac VP. When were there for his class, he was selling NOS GM rollers that are the same as Ford, except one of the set was longer that the Ford units I believe. He told us how to make it work and I believe it's what he uses in his builds.

This may be a good option since they are USA-made quality bearings, so no need to worry about good enough used.

Just a thought.

Tim

[pistonbroke]

ID on the cluster is one thing , but is it a polished surface for a bearing to ride on? I would like to hear from Mac Van Pelt on this topic. It sounds like a good idea on paper but you would think hotrodders would have done this back in the day. Tim

[19Fordy]

Thank you all for responding to my question. Thank you, Tim for the bearing "tip" from Mr. Van Pelt. I printed this thread out. Jim

[cadillac512]

Jim, when I rebuilt my '41 trans I put Koyo B1212 bearings in the cluster gear. They are a needle roller in a drawn cup and pressed into the cluster. Full complement of rollers and specs for load looked good. 26,000 miles on it and all is well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/39463821364...3ABFBMlPveuL9j

[19Fordy]

Originally Posted by pistonbroke

ID on the cluster is one thing , but is it a polished surface for a bearing to ride on? I would like to hear from Mac Van Pelt on this topic. It sounds like a good idea on paper but you would think hotrodders would have done this back in the day. Tim

My visual inspection and internal measurements of the cluster gear bore clearly shows that the entire length of the internal cluster gear IS NOT a machined polished surface to accept more caged roller bearings that what Ford specified.

[Ken/Alabama]

Other than the lousey bearings, I’ve had trouble lately finding shafts the correct diameter and hardness.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Ken/Alabama

Other than the lousey bearings, I’ve had trouble lately finding shafts the correct diameter and hardness.

So true and very important component.

[19Fordy]

Originally Posted by cadillac512

Jim, when I rebuilt my '41 trans I put Koyo B1212 bearings in the cluster gear. They are a needle roller in a drawn cup and pressed into the cluster. Full complement of rollers and specs for load looked good. 26,000 miles on it and all is well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/39463821364...3ABFBMlPveuL9j

Cadillac512: I just measured the ID of my cluster that fits a 1941 Ford and it's 1.124 in. That is a lot larger than the 1 in. od of the Koyo B 1212 bearing How were you able to make that Koyo bearing fit securely as it's OD is too small for a press fit?

[Oldcarbearings]

Apparently there's a " cartridge" type bearing bearing replacement that Macs sells,
What you could do/is a inner race that sits on the shaft&the B7121 sits on the inner race/sleeve therefore eliminating surface wear, or use machine needle roller cage that has a built in inner race/sleeve these are called NU type needle roller cages.