Fuel or electric?

[Ricosan]

Good morning,

Dan, are you saying to loosen the 2 bolts that attach the housing for the actuating rod? I don’t understand how this is going to give me access to the rod. Do I slide something between the base of the housing to move the rod manually?
I’ve blown the gas line both ways, from the tank to the firewall and from the flex hose to the gas tank. Line is clear.
Fordcragar, it’s a 21 stud engine rebuilt by H & H Engines. It has less than a hundred
miles on it.

[fordcragar]

I think what Dan and I were trying to figure out, is the fuel pump actually working. If you disconnect the fuel pump outlet line (the one to the carburetor) and put a pressure gauge on it, that would give you the measure of the fuel pump output.

[Ricosan]

fordcragar, I don’t have a fuel pressure gauge but I have to go to Harbor Freight after lunch to get a siphon hose. I’ll check the price of a fuel pressure tester. It would be good to know what the pressure is. Hard to start from cold.

Richard

[fordcragar]

Most vacuum gauges can be used for pressure.

[Ricosan]

Hey Guys,
I think this may be the problem. I hooked the siphon hose to the gas line from the tank. I squeezed the hand pump vigorously for 2 to3 minutes. No gas.
It makes sense. This explains why I could drive it for 10 or 15 miles home without any problems and then 3 days later it won’t start. As long as it was running it could overcome the developing vacuum leak.
Another thing, my ex-mechanic, replaced the fuel line from the gas tank a couple of months ago and since I’ve had it back in my garage, (2 months) I’ve been smelling gas.
It looks like I’m in for some time upside down under the car.

Richard

[fordcragar]

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Richard, is the gas line that you hooked the siphon hose to, the same gas line that goes to the fuel pump? If so, then there might be something in your tank that is blocking fuel flow. The gas smell, is probably a slight gas leak. I'd probably should pull the fuel line at the inlet side of the fuel pump (gas tank side) and blow back towards the tank. Then after you reinstall the fuel line, see if you are getting fuel to the pump. If so, you might need to pull the tank and have it cleaned.

[Ricosan]

Fordcragar, it’s the line that travels from the gas tank to the flex hose and then to the fuel pump. I’ve successfully pushed fuel from the tank to the firewall and into a coke bottle. I blew air from the firewall back to the tank. I’m pretty confident that the line is clear.
I have a very tight connection at the junction of the gas line and the siphon hose. I’ll pump it some more before I crawl under the car.
Richard

[fordcragar]

Have you ever had the tank out and cleaned?

[69a]

Richard. You are on the right track with the siphon hose. Does your hand pump have a gauge on it? If the gauge is reading a vacuum the line is blocked. If it is still on zero you have a leak in the fuel line, block the hose where you have the hand pump and pressurize the tank (as you have said you did in a previous post) you should be able to find an obvious leak. check from the fitting at the tank and work your way forward.
Are you 100% sure you have a vented cap. If not remove the cap and repeat the siphon test.
You said you topped off your tank, so if the fuel level is above the fitting in the tank, that will eliminate an internal leak.

[Seth Swoboda]

Have you tried putting a newly rebuilt pump on to see if the pump is the issue? Swap the current pump for a known good one.

[69a]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

Have you tried putting a newly rebuilt pump on to see if the pump is the issue? Swap the current pump for a known good one.

Read his posts. It's his third pump.

[69a]

I would suggest that this is a good time to re torque your head bolts. I think 45 ft/lbs (8BA with aluminum heads) someone may chime in with correct info.

[fordcragar]

At this point, i would put some gas in a small can, with a hose going to the fuel pump and see if the pump will pump gas to the carburetors. Make sure the hose goes to the bottom of the can. This would eliminate everything from the pump to the tank. If it runs, then you know where to look.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by Ricosan

Tinker, I checked the compression about 2 weeks ago. All cylinders within 3lbs. I measured the vacuum last week. The vacuum read 15. Last week it was running purdy good.

Richard

Hi Richard. Can I ask 3lbs of what? 50 or 90?

Vacuum should be more around 19-20. Might have a leak. 15 is pretty low. You can increase it with the carburetor idle screws also. Don't know if you are running dual carbs. Which would explain that.

Some and I maybe don't know what you have done or what you have posted before or what you know either. Just my thought. We are not following ever post someone makes. Might be nice when creating a new post to add all those stats. H&H is a solid builder.

Best of luck! Good post. Glad you might have it figured out!!!




.

[Ricosan]

Good morning Guys
fordcragar, no I’ve never cleaned the tank out. If I don’t find any vacuum leak in the line this morning, I’ll fill a bottle with gas and try to suck it through the fuel pump. This should give us some good information about the condition of the pump. Good test!
69a, no I don’t have a gauge on the siphon and the gas filler is temporarily covered with a jar lid with a hole in the middle for the air hose. I’m going to “prime” the line this morning and see if it will make a difference when I try siphoning again. I re-torqued the heads last week to 45lbs.
Seth, I’m afraid I don’t have an extra working fuel pump and my usual suppliers are all out of stock.
Tinker, the compression came in at 90 lbs per cylinder, all within 3 lbs. Thanks for the suggestion that I provide more information about the engine at the beginning of the post. I’ll remember that for future posts..

After breakfast, I plan to put the car on jack stands and study the fuel line from the firewall to the tank.

Richard

[blucar]

I recently had an inconsistent running/starting problem with a '53 I'm working on, very nice unmolested car with 77k on the odometer.
The car would start right up, run for a bit and die, refusing to restart. After a lot of checking we narrowed the problem down to a fuel delivery problem. Checked the cranking pressure on the pump, it was good, removed the carb, had it rebuilt.. A previous rebuild had been done with incorrect parts,

Checking the fuel cap we found that it was an un-vented cap. The fuel gauge showed a 1/2 tank, an actual check of the fuel in the tank revealed less than a 1/4 tank of fuel. We added five gallons, gauge did not move. Hmm?
The light came on in my dim brain, I did not recall seeing a flex line in the fuel line from the chassis to the fuel pump. Old flex line can be a problem!
In lieu of a flex line someone had installed a 1/8" section of steel line that required six fittings to make the modification from 5/16 line. purchased the correct flex line for a '53.
After a few days I noted that the fuel tank was leaking fuel.. Time to remove the tank.
removing the tank and sender revealed that the tank had serious problem. Over the years a considerable amount of water had built up in the tank, the pickup tube was badly rusted, the lower two inches had rusted off, so had the sending unit float arm.
A new tank, sending unit and vented cap solved the fuel delivery problem.

[Ricosan]

Had one of those days today. This morning I got on my creeper and checked the fuel line from the gas tank to the firewall. I found found zero evidence that there is a leak in this line.
For the rest of the day I tried various methods to siphon fuel through the line from the gas tank. I was very careful that I had air tight seals on all of the hose connections. After a mouth full of gas I decided to see if my parts store had something that would work to suck the gas from the tank. $60. Too much for a tool I’ll most likely use only once.
In the morning I’m going to try fordcragar’s suggestion to test the fuel pump with the flex line submerged in gas and see if we get fuel to the carburetor side.

Richard

[69a]

connect the fuel line back to the inlet side of the pump and connect your clear plastic siphon hose to outlet of the pump. you should be able to suck fuel through the pump, but not be able to blow it back. This will test the check valves in the pump.

[Ricosan]

69a, I followed your suggestion except I bypassed that pos siphon I got from Harbor freight. I filled a cake bottle strapped to the firewall with gas and put the end of the flex hose into the bottle and positioned another coke bottle at the outlet side of the pump.
I pushed the starter but I got no gas through the carb side. I did notice there was less gas in the bottle at the end of the flex hose so I topped off the bottle and tried again. Eureka! Gas shot into the bottle on the outlet side of the fuel pump.

I hooked back the flex hose to the gas line and reinstalled the fuel lines to the carbs. Poured a dab of gas in each carb and tried to crank. It wanted to but still starved for gas. I repeated gas in carbs and it started!

I’m a little worried that we never found a “smoking gun” but I think that the suggestion for a fuel filter is next on the agenda.

I’ll be out of pocket early this afternoon. I’ll try to start it again when it’s cold and post how it goes.

Richard

[69a]

Damn. I thought you would find something. I run a fuel pressure gauge (actually a boost gauge) and a digital rev counter. Both readable from inside the car. It makes diagnosis easy if you have any issues. You definitely need a filter between tank and pump.