Water neck install question

[oldbike99]

I have received a new upper water neck from Brattons that contains instructions suggesting inserting two paper matchsticks under the tabs to avoid breaking it. I am not sure why this would work and am concerned about a possible leak created from this.
Also considering use a thin layer of sealer without a gasket. I have a new head as well as the new outlet, if that makes a difference.
What works for you? Thank you in advance.
Paul

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

The paper match trick is more for use on a warped water neck or a warped mating surface on the cylinder head? If you can easily remove the two forward head studs, -and then use a flat file on the mating surface to ensure it is level, there will be no need for the matches.

[Mitch//pa]

some use RTV
i use the copper gasket never broke one plus it looks good.
some use the match sticks

have broken them with the paper/cardboard gasket

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

some use RTV
i use the copper gasket never broke one plus it looks good.
some use the match sticks

have broken them with the paper/cardboard gasket

Mitch. What is RTV ?
Wayne

[WestCoast]

to save all the problems just make sure both surfaces are level, flat, straight or what ever and all the problems with cracking water necks are over, double check them, even if they are new

[Mitch//pa]

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Originally Posted by C26Pinelake

Mitch. What is RTV ?
Wayne

RTV is silicone sealer

[WestCoast]

RTV is a liquid type sealant, its used in homes and for auto purposes, it will with stand heat. water, oil, and grease, it depends on what you need to seal, a different style for different purposes , its used to seal windows on homes and cars, it can even be used to make a gasket with out using the cork or paper gasket, there is also a type used for permante gluing of trim and decals, a restorers best friend

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by WestCoast

RTV is a liquid type sealant, its used in homes and for auto purposes, it will with stand heat. water, oil, and grease, it depends on what you need to seal, a different style for different purposes , its used to seal windows on homes and cars, it can even be used to make a gasket with out using the cork or paper gasket, there is also a type used for permante gluing of trim and decals, a restorers best friend

Yup, great stuff. I think i used some orange high heat stuff instead of a gasket on my water neck...

it does a great job of sealing oil gaskets, i smear a thin layer on all sorts of gaskets before putting the parts together, kinda "glues" the parts to the gasket and the gasket to the parts so theres NO way oil can seep out. Doesnt actualyl glue them though and parts can be easily removed.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

unless the car is to be judged, having two flat surfaces (whether an old one filed flat or newly made), and some RTV without a gasket has never leaked for me, nor has it ever broken the flanges of the neck. I use Permatex Ultra Gray, which is for high torque conditions. It also works well on exhaust manifolds as it's high heat tolerant. Before RTV, I would use the copper gasket and file the surfaces flat. As long as it was not torqued beyond 50 lbs, they almost always held without breaking. I suspect some had previously been weakened from over tightening. However, with the advent of high comp heads and their recommendation for higher torque, I found the necks broke easily beyond 50 lbs. torque with a gasket, but not when sealed with no gasket and some RTV.

[Vin-tin]

After reading Les Andrew's book, I used his match stick method. Both neck and head surfaces were perfectly flat and it still broke the inlet. The problem was the gaskets I used. I ordered a copper set with the white stuff sandwiched between, like the originals (or so the catalog said). I'm new to this and didn't know any better. After talking to my engine rebuilder he recommended just using RTV. What I ended up doing was taking the copper clad gasket apart and using just one single outer layer of the solid copper gasket and spraying it with copper coat on both sides.

[MikeK]

Just a point of info- RTV stands for Room Temperature Vulcanizing. There are two general categories of silicone rubber, 2K and 1K systems. The gasket stuff in a tube is 1K and relies on an atmospheric trigger to initiate vulcanization from the exposed surface progressively through the entire mass. The 2K stuff vulcanizes uniformly and requires mixing and a timed reaction that may or may not need a thermal trigger to begin.

[WestCoast]

thanks Mike, I always wondered what RTV stood for

[Rex_A_Lott]

Just as an FYI....the references to to 1K and 2K generally refer to the German spelling for 1 Komponent and 2 Komponent, ala epoxy type materials where 1 is a resin and the second is a hardener, hence the term 2K.

[Allanw]

There is also acid (acetic) cure and neutral cure. DON'T use the acid cure stuff - it makes things corrode like crazy!


I installed a new water neck with temp sender port, with a paper gasket and a little extra layer of paper gasket at the ends under the flanges - leaked like crazy!

I then used a very high quality silicone gasketmaker, with a very thin piece of gasket paper under the bolt flanges - leaked almost as bad.

Then, following the silicone instructions - covered both the surfaces (thinly!), let it dry for the required time before assembly (MAYBE 5 to 15 MINUTES FROM MEMORY) then put the parts together loosely for the required time (I can't remember how long this was) and then torque to the recommended setting. I then checked the torque a few days later.

I did it just like that, and never a drop leaked since, no broken flanges either!

[Russ/40]

I should add, a perfectly flat head and a perfectly flat outlet, used with the paper/cardboard gasket, WILL break the ears off the outlet. Not initilly, but once the paper gets saturated it will squeeze out the ends and the ears will then snap. Mine broke a week after installation.

[tbirdtbird]

dunno but it would seem like this paper match 'trick' (the trick is on you) makes as much sense as an HVAC tech wrapping his copper freon flare joints with small pieces of duct tape 'to get a better seal'

[Maclab58]

I have just skipped the gasket and used RTV after breaking one.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Mine broke on Minerva while I had my dumb head under the hood! Sounded like a shot from my squirrel gun! Water went EVERYWHERE!
A new neck & some RTV & never broke again!
Bill W.

[kevinwalshe]

As added insurance, I would deck the flat mounting surface of the neck. Get an old piece of glass (because it is very flat), smear a THIN layer of grease on it, put your sheet of 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper on it (the grease stops it from sliding around) and spray penetrating lube on the paper to lubricate it. Then gently surface the flat surface of the neck in a figure-eight motion and you can see that they are not usually cast perfect. This will make sure that your gasket works as intended.
Kevin

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by kevinwalshe

As added insurance, I would deck the flat mounting surface of the neck. Get an old piece of glass (because it is very flat), smear a THIN layer of grease on it, put your sheet of 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper on it (the grease stops it from sliding around) and spray penetrating lube on the paper to lubricate it. Then gently surface the flat surface of the neck in a figure-eight motion and you can see that they are not usually cast perfect. This will make sure that your gasket works as intended.
Kevin

Valve grinding compound & Vaseline, mixed together, on a heavy plate glass, makes a great surfacer Good for checking carb bodies & tops, for flatness. Cover it with a rag & it can be used over & over.
Bill W.