|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
12-23-2012, 05:00 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lancaster PA
Posts: 535
|
Head bolts in an early block?
While trying to figure out the exact thread specs on the head stud holes and studs on my 37 blocks, I noticed that a standard grade 5 bolt fit the threaded hole nicely. Then the thought occurred to me to just use bolts like the late motors. I'm figuring on using Orosco Eddie Meyer heads which need all the same length stud, so what would be wrong with just using head bolts, as long as I seal them from water leaks? It would save a lot of work with the studs, and make removing the heads easier if needed.
Why did Ford use studs, and why did they switch to bolts? PS - Found the hole specs in a thread here, thanks to the folks who posted it. |
12-23-2012, 05:13 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 1,731
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Well, with studs you get more clamping pressure from lower bolt torque account finer threads on the upper end of the stud. Also, once the studs are sealed in the block, you don't disturb the seal when removing heads account removing the nut and not the stud.
I've been thinking about this very question myself for a current 59ab build and will be glad to see others answers. Good Luck and Merry Christmas! |
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
12-23-2012, 05:16 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 9,007
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
One thing you may want to consider is the studs Ford used were a taper thread. The tapped holes in the block were (obviously) tapered to accept the studs.
I am not certain the later bolts were as well. If the bolts are straight cut I would think you would need to tap the holes in the block accordingly. The tapered thread was the design Ford utilized to effect a seal as you are obviously aware of. I see no reason why you couldn't use bolts as long as you are certain you have the proper (depth) engagement and they are sealed very well. The rule of thumb for proper engagement is 1 1/2 times the diameter of the bolt.
__________________
"I can explain it for you. However, I can't understand it for you". |
12-23-2012, 06:01 PM | #4 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,019
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Yoyodyne,
Get a hold of Roy Nacewicz , [email protected] and run your question by him. My preference is studs vs cap screws. Once the stud is anchored in the block most of the 'action' will be on the 7/16-20 fine thread not the 7/16-14 thread that threads in the block. Charlie ny |
12-23-2012, 06:13 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gardiner Me.
Posts: 4,200
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
i've built many many useing bolts instead of studs. I just go to my local fasenall all dealer close to me and bye the length I need in grade 8 there kind of gold color, use grade 8 flat washers. The only differants is the heads are 5/8 instead od 11/16. Walt
|
12-23-2012, 11:16 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,860
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
|
12-23-2012, 11:50 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Irving, Texas
Posts: 598
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Bolts for me on the two 59 blocks I have just built. I like to use the Cat bolts with the 11/16 inch heads. A little more pricey than the Fasenall bolts that Walt uses, just a personal preference for me. Ed
|
12-23-2012, 11:55 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 1,731
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Ed - Is that Cat like in Caterpillar? Where can those bolts be purchaced?
|
12-24-2012, 12:11 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Irving, Texas
Posts: 598
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Henry, yes they came from the Caterpillar dealer. There is one near me that I used.
I used 48 each 2 1/2 inch bolts for my aluminum head part # 7X-0312. For the iron heads, I used 28 each 2 1/2 inch bolts part # 7X-0312 4 each 2 1/4 inch bolts part #7X-0311 16 each 1 3/4 inch bolts part # 8C-6877 |
12-24-2012, 02:15 AM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lancaster PA
Posts: 535
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Thanks all, I guess it wasn't such a dumb question after all.
I like Cat hardware too, Cat makes very good hardware, and a very wide selection of it. Surprisingly, it's very nicely priced, probably cheaper than Fastenall. Far as I know you have to call a dealer to get it. |
12-24-2012, 09:24 AM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,052
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Either bolt or studs work fine, we use them both.
The only recommendation I would make is to use washers on them, especially with aluminum heads! This will usually add about 1/8" (.125") to the overall bolt length! The ARP studs also have an "allen" socket broached in the tops to help with removal later! Thanks, Gary in N.Y. P.S. All our builds here get ARP fasteners, bolts or studs! We also have the option of using either 5/8" or 11/16" nuts with the studs. The photo below shows the 5/8" nuts in one kit. The "A" in the part number designates aluminum heads. |
12-24-2012, 11:28 AM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sevierville, Tenn.
Posts: 391
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Has anyone tried studs from one of the automotive fastener stores?
|
12-24-2012, 11:37 AM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,860
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Nobody makes flathead studs that Im know of. The ARP are too long amd have to be shortened. Too much work and expense.
|
12-24-2012, 11:58 AM | #14 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,052
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Quote:
The only time we've needed to shorten the ARP stud setup is if the customer wants to use the Chrome style acorn nut covers! This is the reason we stock both nut sizes, 5/8" or 11/16", seems the Chrome covers press on the larger nut correctly!! The ONLY other time you need to "shorten" a couple is on the bottom threads above the heat cross-over! That hole is very "shallow" in that area! We order bulk studs from ARP in various lengths, same for the main stud kits, we use these here also! (Add) How much more time on that stroker?? Been following along! Should make upwards of 150 HP and some serious torque? Thanks, Gary in N.Y. P.S. Again, wishing all you guy's a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! |
|
12-24-2012, 12:51 PM | #15 |
Member Emeritus
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fitzgerald, Georgia
Posts: 2,204
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
The correct Ford studs can be purchased from Mac's for a fair price and in a varity of lengths to serve nearly all applications.
|
12-24-2012, 11:15 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,860
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Thanks John, I tried to get studs for the Hydro engine, back when. Can't believe it's still running.
Gary, the 294 is all buttoned up now. I have to build some fuel lines and linkage for the carbs. Looking forward to the dyno tests. |
12-25-2012, 09:56 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 4,527
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
Roy Nacewicz has correct Ford studs in all lengths.
|
12-26-2012, 09:26 AM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 8,860
|
Re: Head bolts in an early block?
There are several ways to install studs according to the application. Installing the studs in a flathead would go something like this:
Remove top thread in block. use medium Loc-tight. Torque to 10 ft/lbs. That's it, torquing the nuts to 45 ft/lbs. We used a similar method on the aircraft gear box. I'm sure there's more to it. |
|
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|