New "32 Ford" Parts...Where does it end?

[NealinCA]

Or will it? I just saw this...

"Super Bell Axle Company is proud to introduce to you our newest I-Beam that you have been asking for. A brand new 1932 Heavy Axle built to stock specifications. This original design would be a great piece for a bone stock restoration or any traditional hot rod.Made from 65-45-12 ductile iron, Our newest I-beam has the strength and durability that you have come to expect from Super Bell Axle Company. You only have to buy a quality parts once. Available in 2'' or 2 1/4'' perch boss, measures 50 1/2 from kingpin to kingpin and 36 1/2 perch to perch. Plain & Drilled In stock Chrome will be available in a few weeks. Starting at $309.00"


My first thought was kinda negative...

I am drawn to early Ford restorations and period correct hot rods partly because they can't be built from a catalog. Either you need to start with a complete car or hunt the swapmeets for the correct parts. Now more and more...you can just order many of these parts. 32's for example...frame rails, K-member, body, dash, firewall, grill, front wishbone, not to mention all of the small parts...but now the front axle?

Maybe it's just like all of those other repro 32 parts. There will still be a place for original parts and those who enjoy them...and those Check-Book builders may leave the old junk for the those of us who care about it.

Your thoughts?

Neal

[Tman]

I think it will still be a niche product. 32 folks and traditional rodders. I like that it is available, I still enjoy the hunt for Henrys steel.

[Pete]

Ductile iron?????
I don't think any racing association will allow that.
I sure would not trust my life and all the others on the road to cast iron running gear parts.
And yes I know they have been making hot rod axles like that for a long time and YES some have broken.

[Kahuna]

Someone must have thought that is was a good (profitable) item to produce. I don't see the need for it, but some will, I'm sure. My experience with after-market, reproduced parts is not too good. Some fit, most don't, and some kind of fit, almost fit, need a bunch of work to fit. To me the original stuff is the best, but I don't have deep pockets
Jim

[Jack E/NJ]

http://www.dura-bar.com/products/65-45-12c.cfm

Jack E/NJ

[deuce lover]

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Fords axles were forged which allowed them to flex.Ductile iron is stiff and has no flex at all.They just will break if pushed to the limit.Just my thoughts.Also there is no such thing as a heavy axle.Whoever coined that phrase made it up.32 axles were all the same and a different design from 33-36 axles.

[Ross in East Texas]

Ductile iron, also known as ductile cast iron, nodular cast iron, spheroidal graphite iron, spherulitic graphite cast iron and SG iron, is a type of cast iron invented in 1943 by Keith Millis. While most varieties of cast iron are brittle, ductile iron is much more flexible and elastic, due to its nodular graphite inclusions.
On October 25, 1949, Keith Dwight Millis, Albert Paul Gagnebin and Norman Boden Pilling received US patent 2,485,760 on a Cast Ferrous Alloy for ductile iron production via magnesium treatment. Ductile Iron does have flexibility and can be very strong?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Ross in East Texas

Ductile iron, also known as ductile cast iron, nodular cast iron, spheroidal graphite iron, spherulitic graphite cast iron and SG iron, is a type of cast iron invented in 1943 by Keith Millis. While most varieties of cast iron are brittle, ductile iron is much more flexible and elastic, due to its nodular graphite inclusions.
On October 25, 1949, Keith Dwight Millis, Albert Paul Gagnebin and Norman Boden Pilling received US patent 2,485,760 on a Cast Ferrous Alloy for ductile iron production via magnesium treatment. Ductile Iron does have flexibility and can be very strong?

Right on and good info Ross.
Your last sentence says it except that it is nowhere near as strong as a
alloy steel forging...Ductile iron front axles have been known to break as have ductile iron crankshafts such as SCAT brand.
For me for these 2 applications it would be like buying second hand oats.

[Rusty1932]

Right on Deuce Lover!

[Uncle Bob]

I always find these "discussions" interesting. But personal views, no matter our tradition of respecting your "right" to express them, are not very informative other than reflecting on the speaker's beliefs. As for whether it's a "good" idea, that's up to the marketplace. There were probably some naysayers when Brookville introduced their Model A or Deuce roadster bodies.........but based on reality, reflected by market response, Brookville wins that "argument". Likewise for ASC or other manufacturer rails, crossmembers, and so on. It will be the same for these axles. If Slover read the market correctly he'll be rewarded and the buyers will be happy. If he misread the market these will fade away. They're not for everyone, but that's not the point. As folks who value our hobby we should be tickled to death by any signs of prolonged life. We should keep in mind that we are a minority (albeit not one that tugs on the heartstrings of special privelege) and would be better served by sticking together as we will certainly be the ever more frequent target of the eco-nazis (remember, they HATE everything we stand for).

As for the ductile iron axles, those who have a kneejerk negative response about inflexibility should probably learn the definition of the word ductile (partly defined above). As for the examples of the few that have fractured, my recollection is they have all been chromed which can have a negative effect on ductility when done incorrectly (hydrogen embrittlement). If there are some that are not chromed and fractured it would be nice to know about them and if there had been any forensic analysis for the actual cause of the breakage.

[paul2748]

Originally Posted by NealinCA

Or will it? I just saw this...
Maybe it's just like all of those other repro 32 parts. There will still be a place for original parts and those who enjoy them...and those Check-Book builders may leave the old junk for the those of us who care about it.

Your thoughts?

Neal

I like your comment about "check book builders" The fact is, any original 32 part is for a "check book builder" as the price on original parts probably far exceed any repo part (unless you are very lucky in digging out a part no one knows what it is for or is in such bad condition that there is no market for it)

[Payne]

I think it's a good thing because it puts a cap on those outrageous prices an original has fetched in the past. There will always be a market for an original axle, and a very nice original axle will still fetch a very nice price. The great thing now is you wont have to bid against a "check book builder" who needs a '32 axle yesterday, cause his client must have a '32 axle under his car cause all of his rich friends are telling him that's the new cool must have part for your next car.

As for where it ends? It ends when then start reproducing a model 111-40 Grigsby-Grunow Radio for a 1932 Ford.

[X38]

1. The broken cast axles I've seen have all been involved in heavy impacts (crashes with solid objects).

2. They were painted, not chrome.

3. So someone wants to market these stock shape ones, made the same way they've made thousands of other axles. It's their business, literally. Does it really matter?

4. What's this got to do with racing associations?

[Krylon32]

When I asked about why they chose to build this axle, they said that it would probably be used most in conjunction with their suicide style front suspension that they have had for a few years. In defense of the ductile cast axle, I have sold hundreds of Super Bell axles over the years and have yet to have one fail. As for reproducing deuce parts it will only end when there is nothing left.

[GreenMonster48]

I've got to agree with Uncle Bob here.

Unfortunately I own a less popular vehicle and I always seem to be drawn to them. I'm tickled to death whenver I see a new part marketed for my truck.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Repro '32 parts, even the damn good ones like Brookville bodies, have certainly not slowed down the perpetual rise in '32 parts prices...I think they have simply allowed the construction of more cars, both Ford based and entirely repro ones. Correction...they probably HAVE slowed the upward rush somewhat. Imagine what a roadster body or a frame would cost now if there were no repros! Us lunatics will never be comfortable with repro stuff, but we should be thankful someone is happy with them!
Good '32's were worth more than when they were new by the end of WWII...they moved up to more or less typical new car prices (meaning an ordinary person would have had some trouble paying for both a '32 and his family wagon) and stayed there for a while, now they are in higher territory than say an ordinary new Ford.
Parts have gone up a lot more than car, I think, and there really is a shortage there...most good parts have long since been incorporated into a car, and change hands only when a car is rebuilt from say a resto or hotrod into a streetrod.
When I was a kid in the '60's, '32 parts were like $15-20 per lump like a fender or grill...and that was VERY serious money, usually beyond me. Now any serious chunk of '32 steel is in the thousands...

I posted alloy and heat treat info on Ford EE axles on the HAMB once...they put some serious material in those. The most critical forgings like pitman arms were 100% surface tested. Ductile iron can bend under violence, but I think a lot less than a treated forging...
Chroming is apparently not a big issue on these poarticular sorts of steel, from what I've read, but I suspect dropping is...the heat used is surely beyond the heat treat level.

[Joe KCMO]

I believe "ductile" refers to other than cast. Ductile is steel which can be hammered or drawn into wire. I do not believe that definition if of anything like cast iron. It is steel.

[hbleadsled]

Paul, I agree with your thoughts about " check book builders " I try to buy good org. parts.BUT now unless I fine what I need at a swap meet I will buy repro WHY I have recieved JUNK in the mail from parts on ebay ( those guys must have smiled when they got the money order) Harold, central coast Ca.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

Fords axles were forged which allowed them to flex.Ductile iron is stiff and has no flex at all.They just will break if pushed to the limit.Just my thoughts.Also there is no such thing as a heavy axle.Whoever coined that phrase made it up.32 axles were all the same and a different design from 33-36 axles.

I don't think your comment about the '32 axle is accurate

[JM 35 Sedan]

I am personally glad to see any good quality reproduction parts being made for these old Fords and God Bless any of the folks out there who are making these parts in America. When I learn of a new part that's being manufactured for one of my cars, it makes me extremely happy and I don't care if it reduces the value of existing stock parts that some folks are hoarding and/or are asking ridicules prices for. Let the good times roll and keep 'em flat! JMO, J.M.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Well...'32-36 axles all carry the "B" prefix and interchange...
All the '32 stuff I have that seems original uses the "heavy" axle. There is no question the the idea that the heavy only came on commercials is entirely wrong.
I think the question may be whether the light axle was actually introduced in production before the end of the '32 model year. The only very late deuce I have came with a dropped (light) axle, and of course dropped axles were usually store-bought exchange deals so that is unlikely to be the original axle from that car.
Ford violated all of its normal parts numbering practices during the 1932 year, seldom noting changes in parts even though we know everything under there changed several times during the year...so, if the change was made during 1932, it explains why both axles were sold as B-3010. Normally, Ford added a suffix when a part was altered, like B-3010-b, but they did not on this. The fact of the B prefix may well prove that the change was during '32 production, too...
What does the new '32 book have to say on this?? I'm at work, and will probably forget to look when I get home...

[Bruce Lancaster]

Ductile iron indeed fits its nomenclature, and has the ability to bend and deform under impact without cracking. I believe that some modern OEM spindles are made of ductile, with a forged pin inserted for the actual spindle pin, so I would concede that it is probably an adequate material for an axle...but I will stick to forged and heat-treated Ford EE steel that I know is virtually unbreakable under really severe bending or impact. And absolutely no thanks on aftermarket cast spindles.
Ford introduced cast-iron cranks in 1934, a revolutionary step that also required special alloy that was able to withstand torsion...I think this was the ancestor of ductile. In the crank, it had some advantages, besides price, though its ultimate strength was less than a forging. It allowed much better counterweighting and was stiffer, a big deal since the '32-6 cranks were so thin. The stiffer cranks apparently made more power at high speeds...the forgings were twisting enough to run things out of time. Anecdotal evidence from 1930's stock car racers is that deuces picked up several MPH in their circa 100MPH racing range when fitted with '34 cranks.

[itslow]

There are also (at least) two variations of the "heavy" axle, but "the book" doesn't make any note of it that I can find. There's the style with the indentations by the kingpin having squared-off top and bottom corners, which seems to be more common, and one where the indentation is rounded with no corners. The latter will obviously be easy to spot as not being reproduction once these axles are available, provided they aren't easily distinguishable from stock.

[Bruce Lancaster]

And there's a Canadian one that seems to appear on '33 trucks with heavy middle and light ends...

[Tim Ayers]

I guess when I saw all '32's had the heavy axle, I don't BB's did. The parts looks simular but don't interchange with pass. stuff (I think, but could be dead nuts wrong).

[Will Kimble]

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I like it. It is nice to have another option that you can use with either a stock Model A or '32-34 wishbone. And no "superman" emblem to grind off.

Will Kimble

[andyg]

like most on here i like original ford parts and have found them superior in most cases. however i like to see the aftermarket stuff because i may want to get on with a project and buy the aftermarket piece if the original will interchange with it later.

and as stated before it's nice in the sense that it keeps prices in check to some degree. the last few years are an exception to the "keeps prices in check" statement! i went a "traditional parts" route 6-7 years ago when i started on my project because it was the cheeper way to build. now i find my new project going the "aftermarket" route because i can't REALLY afford the original parts. but if it weren't for the aftermarket industry i wouldn't have that option. funny how things change.

[Gastrick]

I'm not sure that some people on the west coast realize that not everyone lives within driving distance of multiple swap meets or has old car parts for sale in their local classifieds. The closest swapmeet that I know of is 250 miles from me and only occurs once a year. Even then, the selection of viable 30's and 40's car parts is not plentiful there in my opinion. If I had to rely on this swap meet and parts for sale locally, it would take me a hundred years or maybe longer to put together a car. I am usually at the mercy of ebay and internet classifieds and have been taken a few times as a result. Then there are the "local pickup only" problems because the seller will not ship. In many cases, buying a reproduction part from a reputable supplier is the most sure way that I will receive what I paid for if I can even find it. I searched six months just a find a steering box for my 1934 Ford. I finally found one on ebay and had to hope to win the auction. If that makes me a "checkbook" builder then so be it. I hope none of you folks who deem others lesser builders because they don't have access to parts locally are not running reproduction bias ply tires on your cars.

[Tim Ayers]

Easy fellas... Let's not turn this into those who have and those who have not argument.

There is some validity to the statement that some areas of the US still have a plethora of old Ford parts like poss. CA (I don't know for sure, I'm just assuming).

[Gastrick]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Easy fellas... Let's not turn this into those who have and those who have not argument.

There is some validity to the statement that some areas of the US still have a plethora of old Ford parts like poss. CA (I don't know for sure, I'm just assuming).

I didn't mean to sound harsh. Sorry if it sounds that way. It wasn't really my intention.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Original parts are definitely climbing past the cost of anything you can get from the "checkbook" sources, but the good thing is that the original parts are well scattered across the country and sometimes appear in random places with low prices. The scrap heap at the junkyard, the guy with a garge full of mostly Buick parts, the streetrodder who doesn't want anything old on his old car...
Usually you have to bleed money for '32 stuff, but not always.
And...if you have no good sources near you, consider putting all your car money you spend all year into a tote bag instead of sending it off to the repro places. In October, take your tote bag to Hershey and BLOW IT ALL on glorious GOOD STUFF.
Have the vacation time arranged in advance, and maybe have a good divorce lawyer on retainer, but you'll enjoy your money a LOT more that way.
That also seems to be the way European '32 people live...

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Original parts are definitely climbing past the cost of anything you can get from the "checkbook" sources, but the good thing is that the original parts are well scattered across the country and sometimes appear in random places with low prices. The scrap heap at the junkyard, the guy with a garge full of mostly Buick parts, the streetrodder who doesn't want anything old on his old car...
Usually you have to bleed money for '32 stuff, but not always.
And...if you have no good sources near you, consider putting all your car money you spend all year into a tote bag instead of sending it off to the repro places. In October, take your tote bag to Hershey and BLOW IT ALL on glorious GOOD STUFF.
Have the vacation time arranged in advance, and maybe have a good divorce lawyer on retainer, but you'll enjoy your money a LOT more that way.
That also seems to be the way European '32 people live...

10-4 on Hershey. Also good advice about the divorce attorney as well. Or just have a good place to hind your old Ford booty. It helps that I generally roll in from Hershey late at night.

I can sneek in a lot of junk under the cover of darkness.

Bruce:

Your post reminds me of joke that I'll modify to fit this topic:

Why is getting a divorce and buying original '32 parts so expensive?

Because they're worth it... (only kidding about the divo. Easy fellas, I'm just trying to lightening up the mood a bit.)

[Bruce Lancaster]

My favorite all time ad, seen in Hemmings looong ago:

1941 Studebaker Champion, wife says it goes or she goes.
Your choice, $400.00

I've always wondered how that all played out...

I once briefly considered wearing a pedometer at Hershey and computing the number of dollars-per-mile-walked for my trip.
I realized that I was looking for severe trouble and dumped THAT idea.
I now figure that if I am not hungry or incarcerated and the dog has been fed that my level of deuce spending is just fine. Priorities, priorities.

[NealinCA]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Original parts are definitely climbing past the cost of anything you can get from the "checkbook" sources, but the good thing is that the original parts are well scattered across the country and sometimes appear in random places with low prices. The scrap heap at the junkyard, the guy with a garge full of mostly Buick parts, the streetrodder who doesn't want anything old on his old car...
Usually you have to bleed money for '32 stuff, but not always.
And...if you have no good sources near you, consider putting all your car money you spend all year into a tote bag instead of sending it off to the repro places. In October, take your tote bag to Hershey and BLOW IT ALL on glorious GOOD STUFF.
Have the vacation time arranged in advance, and maybe have a good divorce lawyer on retainer, but you'll enjoy your money a LOT more that way.
That also seems to be the way European '32 people live...

Well said Bruce. That's how I try to play the 32 game...from the bottom end. I started buying junk 32 parts...fixing/repairing and then trading up when possible. I am not much further up the ladder...but I am still having fun.

I see that these reproduction parts do have a place in our hobby. There were many valid points made...like parts being made in the USA and sticking together as a hobby. There was also the point made about building cars to sell. You can make them look right with new parts...and don't have to give up your stash of gennie stuff. That's all right as long as you actually use the gennie stuff someday...

I guess parts like the axles just aren't for me. Everyone has their own limit though...as I will use repro hardware as needed. I still hunt for gennie stuff...but I would bolt an original bumper on with new bumper bolts...which I know will make Bruce's stomach turn.

Neal

[Bruce Lancaster]

The downside to being a real '32 nutcase is the absurd amount of time spent gathering the goodies...my original bumper bolts have been gathered over damn near 50 years, mostly one at a time. Two actually came from a '32 bumper I harvested in Pennsylvania from a '36 pickup...I had to be restrained from slashing my wrists with a rusted-out brake fluid can when one of them snapped coming off. I would still regard a cast-stainless resto one about like I would a minor case of leprosy.
And I love streetrodders who want to build an old car with nothing old on it!

[Tim Ayers]

Bruce:

Funny you say that for one year I did wear my old German ankle-strapped pedometer that measures walking distances in miles.

By the end of the two days: 16 miles. Some would say that was certainly a great deal of exercise and I would agree.

Except I needed to walk 16 miles in order to work off the multiple servings of Smitty fries, Big Smokies, Pit Beef sandwiches and the high number of adult beverages consumed during any one of my 36 years making the annual pilgramage back to the land of salvation of old axle grease, Ford parts, and good friends.

It's akin to how salmon swim back upstream to their birth place every year in order to breed and spawn. Only differnce is our lower jaws don't become grossly disfigured and developed a pronounced hook.

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

My favorite all time ad, seen in Hemmings looong ago:

1941 Studebaker Champion, wife says it goes or she goes.
Your choice, $400.00

I've always wondered how that all played out...

I once briefly considered wearing a pedometer at Hershey and computing the number of dollars-per-mile-walked for my trip.
I realized that I was looking for severe trouble and dumped THAT idea.
I now figure that if I am not hungry or incarcerated and the dog has been fed that my level of deuce spending is just fine. Priorities, priorities.

[296 V8]

Don’t look the same as a real one to me.
I wonder how long it will be tell someone wants me to drop one.

[NealinCA]

Originally Posted by forever4

...Glassic chose Model A's instead of 32's .

I thought those were pickles?

[Frank The Plumber]

Originally Posted by Pete

Ductile iron?????
I don't think any racing association will allow that.
I sure would not trust my life and all the others on the road to cast iron running gear parts.
And yes I know they have been making hot rod axles like that for a long time and YES some have broken.

Pete, Ford econoline vans have been using ductile iron years as the central component to their front suspension, all of the watermains in most major cities are ductile iron, ductile is vibration resistant and is many times, stronger than a straight steel cast part. Frank

[Frank The Plumber]

Neal;
If you can find an original part in a state where you do not have road salt cause you dont have winter, and you have swap meets and a cruise scene for 10 months instead of 6 thats wonderful, you have a lot more availability to parts and parts sources, accept the fact that you are very lucky to have those resources.
Put yourself in the shoes of a guy who lives in the north or northeast, we dont have all this iron laying around and haven't for a long time, we have a real tough time finding parts that are useable and we, many of us are happy that someone would reproduce that part or create a part that can be used as an alternative, and yes we may have to write a check to that guy who reproduced that part but no that does not make us gold chainers or any less intelligent or worthy to carry on our passion than a guy who spends every Saturday and Sunday hunting through piles of parts at a swap meet.
We are in a different environment, if you wish to argue that we are different fine, come on up and build a car in my environment and surroundings, the parts prices will shock you the quality will make cringe and you will go back west with a new appreciation for how lucky you guys are.

[Bruce Lancaster]

But...we in the norteast can just kick back and watch TV until October, putting our car money into a backpack as it gathers.
Then in October, nice folks from every corner of the entire world (and I think a few other planets, can't account otherwise for some I have met) will pack up every early Ford goody they have and bring them all to Hershey, where we can harvest them as easily as buying groceries in an extraordinarlily large supermarket...
In some ways we are spoiled!

[NealinCA]

Frank - Did you read my follow up post?

Originally Posted by NealinCA

I see that these reproduction parts do have a place in our hobby. There were many valid points made...like parts being made in the USA and sticking together as a hobby....I guess parts like the axles just aren't for me.

Neal

[Frank The Plumber]

Yes I did read your follow up post, and If I worded the post I made in a way that made you feel as if I were upset with you personally, that is not the case.
While many may argue the differences between a rat rodder, a hot rodder, a street rodder or a purist and argue over how parts were acquired in my neck of the woods there is something that is far worse to be, a spectator or an on looker, a guy with no car, or the guy who's car is never done. I've built a few cars in my day, some that were not so dependable, some that I wish stopped better, some that I wish were faster, some that I wish had AC, so when I built my latest one I put all of the previous problems behind and built a safe fast comfortable car, I encourage everyone to build a safe fast comfortable car, put any parts on it that you like and not to worry about what anyone thinks. The definition by popular belief is that a hot rod is any modified vehicle, so we are all hot rodders because we all modify our vehicles. Lets start giving the onlookers grief, they give plenty of it to us.

[hbleadsled]

Frank, I agree with you ,you said that so well for a lot of us. Harold central coast Ca.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by paul2748

I like your comment about "check book builders" The fact is, any original 32 part is for a "check book builder" as the price on original parts probably far exceed any repo part (unless you are very lucky in digging out a part no one knows what it is for or is in such bad condition that there is no market for it)

He He He, you must not follow Neal very closely. He's polished alot of "turds".

Tim

[dude]

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Thank God for repop parts. I don't have a 32, but think they are one of the best looking cars that Henry made. I was once told there are more 32's on the road now than Henry ever made. If that is true,there would be a lot less fellows enjoying the sport without repop parts. JMO

[rocnroll]

I just got a '32 "heavy" back from being dropped and still have less in it than their 'starting price'........just lucky, I guess.

[HOTRODPRIMER]

I don't like '32 Fords! HRP

[Frank The Plumber]

Originally Posted by HOTRODPRIMER

I don't like '32 Fords! HRP

How about a 29 or 30?, Do you like a 33 34, maybe a 5 window, Ive had about 6 65 66 mustangs, wont do another, wouldnt say I dont like em, just so many a guy would do, I think this is the reasoning behind the whole movement of wont put a part on my car if I see it on another, only so many things you can do to make it unique, I did see a really tight looking 29 or 30 on the hamb, copper colored, and I love John's"come go for a ride" I wake up in the middle of the night with that car in my head, the engine sound is so sweet. There are a lot of bench mark rods out there, but Its hard to put in variety, to me its even harder to do a pure resto, all you have is color treatment, yow.

[HOTRODPRIMER]

Originally Posted by Frank The Plumber

How about a 29 or 30?, Do you like a 33 34, maybe a 5 window, Ive had about 6 65 66 mustangs, wont do another, wouldnt say I dont like em, just so many a guy would do, I think this is the reasoning behind the whole movement of wont put a part on my car if I see it on another, only so many things you can do to make it unique, I did see a really tight looking 29 or 30 on the hamb, copper colored, and I love John's"come go for a ride" I wake up in the middle of the night with that car in my head, the engine sound is so sweet. There are a lot of bench mark rods out there, but Its hard to put in variety, to me its even harder to do a pure resto, all you have is color treatment, yow.

Frank,,I meant it as a joke,I should have used the face,,fact is I'm kinda obsessed with '32 Fords. HRP

[andyg]

Frank-no harshness intended....i'll say it up front.

I totally respect where your coming from. Someone that's been there and done that and has moved on. There's not a thing in the world wrong with that. I'm 36 years old and love to hear the older than me guys and girls talk about what they started out building in their younger days. I think my car started out as a curiousity to find out what an early car was like...the sounds, smells, looks, and everything else about living with an early car. It always seems that when I here an older than me person talking about their early days of working on an old car they are smiling. They restored, modified, made fit, and made due with whatever they had available. And although very little or no reproduction parts were available, there were quite a few nice original parts to be found. Some feel like this "skill" as a car guy enabled them to go to the junk yard find, make, or modify whatever they needed to get / keep the car on the road or make it better / faster than the next guy. To them the "skill" has been lost and thus the "check book" comments.

Fast forward to today.....I can relate to both sides of that story. I love to fabricate, change, make better the things on my car. It's nice that we have aftermarket parts that we can do that to as a lot of nice original pieces have been modified in the past 80+ years and far fewer still exist than "back in the day". That's why many on here get upset that someone has modified yet another original car or part.

When my 4 banger pooped out on me and I decided I would put in a v8 flathead to keep it on the road until I could get my "B" motor fixed, I searched and found some mint 1932 V8 motor mounts....skipping over all the ones that had notches in them....wondering why anyone would do that. As I bolted them up to my 39K original mile 1939 flattie (pulled out by someone else that wanted a sbc) I realized that the belt would not clear the lower leg gusset without being notched. Imagine my horror and new problem...do I notch these or not. Well after posting a number of adds on the old ford barn and searching for several months on the internet and swapmeets for some that were already nothched i gave up. After I got NO responses from anyone that wanted to sell me already modified motor mounts, I finally bought a 1936 LB 21 stud flathead so I wouldn't have to notch my nice origianl motor mounts.

I love hotrods and originals. I just don't like to modify nice original parts. If I personally need a modified original part then that's what I look for. I'm not always successfull in that search but I will at least try. I love and respect all the street rodders out there and repect the evolution that they have been through as people, as you yourself talked about. I love the traditional hotrodders...many are in the next stage of the evolution and coming back to what they had as kids. Some are like me and I personally found that a few years ago I could not afford the "aftermarket" parts and was FORCED to find orginal parts instead. I wanted an old car that bad. Now times have changed again and original parts are higher than aftermarket parts a lot of times. And I love the purist that preserve the history of the automakers and preserve the original cars and parts for later generations to see.

I expect that as I collect more nice original 32 parts such as fenders, etc, I will eventually have what I need to restore my car back to original condition if I chose to do that. But until I have those good fenders, I like it fenderless...a personal dedication to those who raced them before WWII.

I guess what I'm saying is this. Personally I love the streetrodders just like I love the tradional rodders just like I love the purists. There's everything right about searching, scrounging, sniffing out that part that you need. But there's nothing wrong with writing a check for it either when you need to "get on with it". I love the hunt but some don't. I'm not better than them or they better than me. Thank goodness people want to build cars themselves and thank goodness people want to sell cars finished.

Let's enjoy this hobby and have some understanding, each to the other, that we can all enjoy this in each our own way...and not be-little anyone else for having a little different opinion than ours.

"can't we all just get along?"....now someone sell me those nice parts you've got stashed....I know you got'um!!!

[Bruce Lancaster]

I think currently it would be nearly impossible to build a '32 from parts or from a very incomplete car without repro stuff in just one lifetime...if you remove money as the obstacle, you still have time as an unbeatable problem. Just going to Hershey with a backpack full of hundred-dollar bills will no longer do the job...there just aren't enough bits floating around anymore. Most of the supply has been assembled onto cars or is being hoarded for a planned car...pickings are getting slim. If I started trying to gather what is needed now, I think my grandchildren would have to do the actual assembly.
The golden age was perhaps the early 1970's, when car fleamarkets started proliferating and both streetrodding and V-8 restoring were getting into high gear...I could find ANYTHING for a '32 in the next few swapmeets, but, alas, I was a starving student and could buy only an occasional goody.
I got into '32's in the early '60's...I was about 14. In those days, there were VERY few car swapmeets, restorers were not into '32's, and traditional rodding had been buried by go-karts, muscle cars, and super-stockers. Finding anything was difficult, but since I couldn't afford anything...
Since those 1970 days, many thousands of '32's have been built, sopping up most of the parts surplus. The best parts sources remaining are streetrodders taking a different direction and stripping a restored car...

[Frank The Plumber]

I never really knew there was all this classification stuff, I wanted AC in my ride cause I stink when I sweat, I wanted a reliable power plant so I put in a 351w, I want to stop so I put on 4 wheel discs, my knees are shot so I put in a matic, I built a chassis about 20 years ago, it bump steered horribly, I wanted to chase vettes and the little punks in their cobras and tuners, I want to run the time trials at good guys events, so I purchased a professionally engineered chassis, a lot of guys on the HAMB fabricate these kind of products and sell them, ..well I bought one, I kept the outside of my truck very stock including rims, I like billet in certain applications, if a part is well engineered it will work better than my cobblings, I've been stranded on the side of the road cause I cobbled some thing together. I spent a good 3 plus years on the old girl and did every thing in my 2 car garage just me and once in a while the wife.
One of the hardest things to learn is to respect another mans vision, we all see the world different, and that is a good thing, we all enjoy a beer different, taste it different, and we all enjoy a car different too. You may not respect the fact that I bought an assembly for my brake set up, but you really should respect the fact the the first brake set up that I cobbled together ended up in the dumpster and I bought the billet assembly, you should appreciate my choice even more as you are sitting in front of me in your bumper less hot rod. By knowing my limits and building a safe product I'm doing us all a favor. I say it again use what makes your car safe, fabricate within your range of knowledge, if you can't find solid reliable safe original parts, buy good high quality, engineered components from a reputable source.

[Payne]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

I think currently it would be nearly impossible to build a '32 from parts or from a very incomplete car without repro stuff in just one lifetime...The golden age was perhaps the early 1970's, when car fleamarkets started proliferating and both streetrodding and V-8 restoring were getting into high gear...

I agree with both it being nearly impossible to build a '32 without repo parts, and the golden age being in the early 70's, but I was wondering if it's harder now to build a '32 out of all original parts after having of nearly 40 years of reproduction parts being introduced into the market?

[Uncle Bob]

I would partially agree that it would/has become more difficult to find origianal parts over time because of popularity. The "recent" surge in nostalgia rods has tightened that market even more. That being said, a lot of those kinds of parts have been hidden away by EV8'ers over all these years. A lot of those guys are getting up there in years. Just as we've seen some of their cars creep out of the hiding (or not so hidden) spots the last few years, I suspect we'll see a lot more in the next decade or so. I've seen a lot of "collections" of both vintage and muscle car stuff going up for auction recently. Gotta believe there are stashes of '32 gold in similar deals. In fact I know of one guy up our way that has a large basement stuffed with '32 parts he hasn't been willing to part with for a long, long time (unless it's happened in the last couple years that escaped my hearing of it).

[WHITEY]

I'm really looking forward to October...

[Harrison]

I love these reproduction parts. Without them, I wouldn't have my "32" RPU.

Those same repro parts really make me appreciate the original parts too though.

JH

[TonyM]

I'll have an easier time writing a check to Brookville or Wescott than buying the real 1932 3W.



TM.

[Ray Parson]

repo parts are cool just wish we could buy one that would FIT .without useing a 5 pound hamer but i gess thats what makes it fun?

[David Conwill]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

I am personally glad to see any good quality reproduction parts being made for these old Fords and God Bless any of the folks out there who are making these parts in America. When I learn of a new part that's being manufactured for one of my cars, it makes me extremely happy and I don't care if it reduces the value of existing stock parts that some folks are hoarding and/or are asking ridicules prices for. Let the good times roll and keep 'em flat! JMO, J.M.

Amen to that!

-David

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

I am personally glad to see any good quality reproduction parts being made for these old Fords and God Bless any of the folks out there who are making these parts in America. When I learn of a new part that's being manufactured for one of my cars, it makes me extremely happy and I don't care if it reduces the value of existing stock parts that some folks are hoarding and/or are asking ridicules prices for. Let the good times roll and keep 'em flat! JMO, J.M.

JM35:

Sadly, the actual parts being MADE in US of A vs. the number of companies based in the US selling parts made overseas is still a pretty poor ratio.

Hopefully that will start to change...

[Krylon32]

When I bought my original deuce roadster body and frame and rolled it into the shop beside several Brookville project cars it made me appreciate all the work that Brookville put into their body.

[Atwater Mike]

Looking at the casting of this '32 heavy, particularly around the spring hanger bosses has me wondering where it was cast. (I mean, just how far offshore of America)

Say, anybody hear of a repro '37 Ford V860 stock tube axle yet? Heard rumors...

[Tim Ayers]

Say, anybody hear of a repro '37 Ford V860 stock tube axle yet? Heard rumors...[/QUOTE]



Funny, I was thinking the same this morning. I would be interested in a US-made version of this.

[JOYBIRD]

Originally Posted by Payne

I think it's a good thing because it puts a cap on those outrageous prices an original has fetched in the past. There will always be a market for an original axle, and a very nice original axle will still fetch a very nice price. The great thing now is you wont have to bid against a "check book builder" who needs a '32 axle yesterday, cause his client must have a '32 axle under his car cause all of his rich friends are telling him that's the new cool must have part for your next car.

As for where it ends? It ends when then start reproducing a model 111-40 Grigsby-Grunow Radio for a 1932 Ford.

Gee is this the END

I have the Ford 111-40. Found it in a Zenith Chairside cabinet.
Not sure if 100 % original.
It looks like the Ford Police Radio or the Grigsby-Grunow B18805
BUT the Tag on the Chassis states Ford Model 111-40

Give me a shout
joybird1(AT)earthlink,net)
Bob T
Wilmington, NC

[DavidG]

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Tim,

With all respect, if you are referring to Deuce lover's comment regarding the coined phrase "heavy", he is 100% correct. There was only one front axle used in the production of the '32 Ford passenger cars and commercial vehicles worldwide, not some "light ones" and some "heavy ones". The ones supplied for service after 1933 were no longer the original '32 version, but rather the '34 version, which is functionally identical and yes, lighter in weight. That some of these lighter replacement axles show up on surviving '32s does not mean that they were "as-built", but rather "as survived".

[JOYBIRD]

Edit

[Doodlrodz]

Three or four years ago I got caught in a downpour at Hershey (imagine that) and ducked into the Honest Charley tent and have to admit I can understand the temptation of the reproduction stuff. I was amazed at what was available I guess I just never paid too much attention to the repro stuff before. I wandered around in there for probably a half an hour and gotta admit the idea of one stop shopping could make a lot of sense for a lot of people who don't have the time to hunt down all the parts to build a car. Problem for me is I'd have to have two of Bruce's back packs filled with hundreds. So it was back out in the sprinkles and another 8 miles of pure enjoyment.

[Lawson Cox]

The hunt is what it is all about.

[19Fordy]

Originally Posted by Joe KCMO

I believe "ductile" refers to other than cast. Ductile is steel which can be hammered or drawn into wire. I do not believe that definition if of anything like cast iron. It is steel.

Here's the scoop on Ductile Cast Iron". It does exists. Pretty interesting read.
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts.../castiron.html

[barryfromvictoria]

Dave G-- As usual is right. I might add that the spring perches in `32 were also thicker. My guess is that Henry`s engineers went overkill on the axle and other parts because of the extra weight of the new v-8 and they were in such a rush to get the new car to the showrooms. Then when they had more time they found it wasn`t necessary and made the axle lighter for 33-36 and later replacement for `32. The old myth that a `32 thick axle was a commercial axle only started about 50 yrs ago when Tex Smith wrote an article for Hot Rod Magazine showing all the differences in early ford axles. While it was an exellent comparison for the day he mistakenly identified the `32 thick axle as a commercial axle only. This same article was published in numerous other magazines over the next 30 yrs.---Barry

[DavidG]

Barry,

Thanks for that bit of history; I'd always wondered where and when the "heavy" tag came into popular use.

Dave

[nonipshere]

Agree. Nothing like original equipment. If you want an old school rod, you build it like an old school rod. Nothing like hunting those parts down. Unfortunately, the parts are becoming more scarce. People do hoard the parts in hope that they will increase in value. Those who are strictly profit motivated are hurting the hobby and not only for the older guys who can afford it but, for the younger ones who have the interest but not the money. I don't like buying the car from the catalog unless the parts are absolutely unavailable.