T5 advice

[Ol' Ron]

I think the only reason I like thid hoppy iz because I can make mot of it. As for adapting theT-5 to a stock bajo rear I think is a waste of time and money. Too many late modle rear axles out there. I haven't used one in over 50 years. My favorite goto axle noe=w is the jeep Grand cherokee spicee 44 with 372 and posi very inexpensive , most yards don't kep them. Some have spicer 35, lighter and gives a bette ride.. Early ones have drum brakes
Gramps

[sshep]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

As for adapting the T-5 to a stock banjo rear I think is a waste of time and money.
Gramps

I hear you loud and clear on that Ron. On paper for a total drive-train upgrade, it doesn't make sense. No argument from me there.


However if your goal is to retain the original torque tube design, either for the engineering of it, or just purely to look as stock as possible, this is the way to achieve that. Like I said, I really enjoyed reading Dick's post on the topic and talking to some others who have done the swap as well.



FYI and O/T but to your point of drive-train upgrades on the cheap.- On my Dad's 39 CS, The Ford AOD trans and factory disc brake 9" rear in his car came from a '79 Lincoln Versailles. Back in the 90's the trans was $100 and the rear was $50 from the local yard. Like you said Ron, nobody wanted that stuff. I adapted the AOD to his 8BA. I could still get Ford OE Parts for some of the unusual Versailles specific rear end parts at that time. I put a 3.89 R&P in the rear and with the O/D trans it gets up to speed fine and cruises at highway speeds no problem. It also stops on a dime with four wheel disc brakes. That's why they make Chocolate and Vanilla, so everyone can be happy. Now time to get back out in the garage and get some more work done!

[32coupe]

For what it's worth (Probably Nothing) I am going to put my 2 cents worth of input in here. I have been building manual transmissions Mostly T10's, Muncie and The T5 transmissions for the last 23 years. I have adapted a t5 to a large variety of engines and have pretty much used every kit out there. In fact the only one that comes to mind that I have not had in my hands on yet is the MAC's Kit that is made in Australia. The Offenhauser, Speedway, and Cornhusker kit are all three basicly the same. They all for the most part work pretty well but have limitations. What I don't really care for about these 3 kits is I do not care for the sleeve that goes over the t5 bearing retainer They have been known to turn and move. You can not use anything bigger than a 9" clutch disc And when using a early ford throwout bearing you have to rig up somthing for the spring to attach to. Also there is no inspection cover in the bell, And if using a diaphram pressure plate depending on the brand you get the adapter bell needs to be cleareanced or the rivets will hit the inside of the bellhousing. But probably the biggest Downside of these 3 kits is the simple fact that you have to use a GM T5 transmission. As said above there are basicly 2 types of the T5. Worldclass and Non world class. And if you want a Worldclass T5 (which is a better transmission) there is only 2 ways to get that in a GM config 88-92 Camaro and the one year only 93 S10 with the 2.8 V6. S10 T5's 93-95 were in fact Worldclass but the 4 cylinder T5's had the ford bolt pattern case like the Mustangs. The ford T5's are much more common and all Mustang, T-birds, and other ford type T5's were pretty much all worldclass and most all of them have better gear sets than the S10 T5's did. I said this 20 years ago and I will still say it today In my opinion the best way to adapt a T5 to a early ford flathead V8 or even a banger 4 cylinder is with a Dwight Bond adapter plate and a 48-52 truck Hogshead bellhousing. This will allow you to use a Astro van 10.5 clutch disc, it has a inspection cover built in the bellhousing, It also uses the factory early ford bearing retainer (so no having to jury rig something for the spring and no worries of a sleeve coming loose) No worries on the pressure plate rivets hitting. And it looks correct from the engine bay view. Not to mention depending on what you have in your hogshead (a lot of guys have them just laying around) The price comes in well under the offenhauser and cornhusker kit. Anyhow for anyone looking to do a T5 swap behind their flathead I will say this regardless of which kit you go with. You won't regret it!! The T5 is a flatheads best friend and if you are used to driving the old 39 3spd you will think you got a new car after the swap. Also the s10 gears suck! you don't need a S10 transmission you just need a S10 tailhousing and shift rail and they are all over e-bay not hard to find. Hell I probably have 8 or 10 of them here. And I already know there are gonna be guys who have the 4.03 and 3.76 s10 gear sets in their cars say they are happy with them and that is fine, But I would bet a nickel that they hardly ever use first gear and if they drove a T5 with a 2.95 or even the 3.35 gear set they would be happier. I teamed up with Dwight Bond last year and I am now making and selling his tried and true adapter. I have them listed in the classifieds here and on the HAMB. Anyhow There is a lot of good info out there on the T5 but there is a lot of mis information out there as well. I will say I did not read every post in this thread so if I covered somthing that has already been addressed Sorry and if I can be of any help to anyone wanting to put a T5 in their early ford feel free to message me. Thanks

[Krylon32]

32 coupe: Please don't put my kit in the same league as Offenhauser and Speedway. From the beginning in the mid 90's I have never used a sleeve that is pressed onto the bearing retainer. When I started I could see a problem with that application and went a different direction. You know nothing about my T-5 kits so please don't PO PO what I sell. I should have kept track of the phone calls from builders who were having problems with other companies kits that I have helped. I'm sure I didn't make everyone happy but my return rate for problems is minuscule in comparison to how many kits I've sold. I've worked hard to produce a product that uses several USA made components, not all but as many as possible. My kit is more expensive because it is more complete than others on the market. Most of my customers have used the stock 85-92 and mid 93 up S10 T5 trans with good success. Many of the guys doing this are first timers and become confused and also discouraged when they read all the negative articles written about this conversion. I'm sure you mean well but with so many negatives many of the articles being published on here and the HAMB tend to muddy the waters. Oh Ya you don't have to fabricate a return spring mount with my current bell housing and I do have a window in the top of the bell housing. Gary at Cornhusker

[Ziggster]

Originally Posted by sshep

Yep, Tremac still does. They have been making brand new T-5's since acquiring them from B-W along time ago. Chevy or Ford bolt pattern, Forward or Rear shifter position, and available in a lot of different gear ratio sets to suit the end users requirements.



www.tremac.com

I’m in the process of rebuilding my T5 and there are parts on “back order” and some that are no longer available. Synchro sets that are non Tremec seem to be problematic due to bad manufacturing and none are available from Tremec. As such, I may end using whatever seems in best condition from the three T5s I have. Getting parts for the T5 will only get worse.

[Ziggster]

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Originally Posted by 32coupe

For what it's worth (Probably Nothing) I am going to put my 2 cents worth of input in here. I have been building manual transmissions Mostly T10's, Muncie and The T5 transmissions for the last 23 years. I have adapted a t5 to a large variety of engines and have pretty much used every kit out there. In fact the only one that comes to mind that I have not had in my hands on yet is the MAC's Kit that is made in Australia. The Offenhauser, Speedway, and Cornhusker kit are all three basicly the same. They all for the most part work pretty well but have limitations. What I don't really care for about these 3 kits is I do not care for the sleeve that goes over the t5 bearing retainer They have been known to turn and move. You can not use anything bigger than a 9" clutch disc And when using a early ford throwout bearing you have to rig up somthing for the spring to attach to. Also there is no inspection cover in the bell, And if using a diaphram pressure plate depending on the brand you get the adapter bell needs to be cleareanced or the rivets will hit the inside of the bellhousing. But probably the biggest Downside of these 3 kits is the simple fact that you have to use a GM T5 transmission. As said above there are basicly 2 types of the T5. Worldclass and Non world class. And if you want a Worldclass T5 (which is a better transmission) there is only 2 ways to get that in a GM config 88-92 Camaro and the one year only 93 S10 with the 2.8 V6. S10 T5's 93-95 were in fact Worldclass but the 4 cylinder T5's had the ford bolt pattern case like the Mustangs. The ford T5's are much more common and all Mustang, T-birds, and other ford type T5's were pretty much all worldclass and most all of them have better gear sets than the S10 T5's did. I said this 20 years ago and I will still say it today In my opinion the best way to adapt a T5 to a early ford flathead V8 or even a banger 4 cylinder is with a Dwight Bond adapter plate and a 48-52 truck Hogshead bellhousing. This will allow you to use a Astro van 10.5 clutch disc, it has a inspection cover built in the bellhousing, It also uses the factory early ford bearing retainer (so no having to jury rig something for the spring and no worries of a sleeve coming loose) No worries on the pressure plate rivets hitting. And it looks correct from the engine bay view. Not to mention depending on what you have in your hogshead (a lot of guys have them just laying around) The price comes in well under the offenhauser and cornhusker kit. Anyhow for anyone looking to do a T5 swap behind their flathead I will say this regardless of which kit you go with. You won't regret it!! The T5 is a flatheads best friend and if you are used to driving the old 39 3spd you will think you got a new car after the swap. Also the s10 gears suck! you don't need a S10 transmission you just need a S10 tailhousing and shift rail and they are all over e-bay not hard to find. Hell I probably have 8 or 10 of them here. And I already know there are gonna be guys who have the 4.03 and 3.76 s10 gear sets in their cars say they are happy with them and that is fine, But I would bet a nickel that they hardly ever use first gear and if they drove a T5 with a 2.95 or even the 3.35 gear set they would be happier. I teamed up with Dwight Bond last year and I am now making and selling his tried and true adapter. I have them listed in the classifieds here and on the HAMB. Anyhow There is a lot of good info out there on the T5 but there is a lot of mis information out there as well. I will say I did not read every post in this thread so if I covered somthing that has already been addressed Sorry and if I can be of any help to anyone wanting to put a T5 in their early ford feel free to message me. Thanks

I have the orig Ford truck trans that came with my 59A “industrial engine”. IIRC, that bearing retainer will not fit the Ford WC T5 I have. This is why I ordered an all steel new bearing retainer and had to have a sleeve machined for it so I could use an early Ford TO bearing.

[32coupe]

Gary, I meant no disrespect to you or what you sell, Also I forgot that the sleeve in your kit is in the throwout bearing and not pressed on the retainer. As a car builder I am always looking to improve something and find a better way, That's just how my mind works. And that is why I have done this conversion just about everyway possible. And for me No matter what I did and no matter how hard I tried to over complicate things I still found the simplest and best way was Dwight's adapter. So after buying and using the last ones he had even the ones he had saved back for himself I made a deal with him and now produce them. I never said your kit did not work and it works fine. But so does The old offenhauser and The speedway kit in most cases. For me personally Good is not good enough. I want the best! And for my experience and In my opinion there are better ways than your kit to do the T5 to early ford swap. It's just my opinion! You are entitled to your opinion just like I am. As I said there are more than one way to adapt a T5 to a early ford, I have mentioned what I don't care for about your kit and 2 others from my personal experience. Have you ever used one of the Bond adapters? And if so what did you like or dislike about it? Also you say I know nothing about your kit, Is this bell in my pic taken today laying in my shop floor with the drilled hole and metal cover bolted on it one of yours?

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 32coupe

Gary, I meant no disrespect to you or what you sell, Also I forgot that the sleeve in your kit is in the throwout bearing and not pressed on the retainer. As a car builder I am always looking to improve something and find a better way, That's just how my mind works. And that is why I have done this conversion just about everyway possible. And for me No matter what I did and no matter how hard I tried to over complicate things I still found the simplest and best way was Dwight's adapter. So after buying and using the last ones he had even the ones he had saved back for himself I made a deal with him and now produce them. I never said your kit did not work and it works fine. But so does The old offenhauser and The speedway kit in most cases. For me personally Good is not good enough. I want the best! And for my experience and In my opinion there are better ways than your kit to do the T5 to early ford swap. It's just my opinion! You are entitled to your opinion just like I am. As I said there are more than one way to adapt a T5 to a early ford, I have mentioned what I don't care for about your kit and 2 others from my personal experience. Have you ever used one of the Bond adapters? And if so what did you like or dislike about it? Also you say I know nothing about your kit, Is this bell in my pic taken today laying in my shop floor with the drilled hole and metal cover bolted on it one of yours?

[Krylon32]

32 coupe: Hard to tell but I don't believe that is the bellhousing I am currently using. In the beginning I used Offenhauser but the fit of their bellhousings became a problem plus when the company changed hands their cost made them prohibitive to buy. I chose to go another direction with a better product. In you first article you mention the cost of my kit. I checked and you are getting $300 out of your plate. Not everyone has a hogshead laying around shop and on E-Bay the asking price for one plus shipping is around $200. Then you need a throwout brg hub with bearing $45-50 plus some form of adapter sleeve for the hub $25-30, pilot bearing or bushing $20, lower shaft $30-$45, fork $30, return spring$3 & bolts $10. If your customer has to obtain these items from an outside source soon the cost of your plate ventures into the area of what mine costs or surpasses it. I'm sure your plate works fine. I judge how mine works by the number of kits I've sold since the mid 90's.

[Tim Ayers]

Can someone post a picture of this hub/adaptor sleeve that is needed? I'm trying to visual this.

This piece goes over the bearing retainer of the T5 input shaft?

[32coupe]

Originally Posted by Krylon32

32 coupe: Hard to tell but I don't believe that is the bellhousing I am currently using. In the beginning I used Offenhauser but the fit of their bellhousings became a problem plus when the company changed hands their cost made them prohibitive to buy. I chose to go another direction with a better product. In you first article you mention the cost of my kit. I checked and you are getting $300 out of your plate. Not everyone has a hogshead laying around shop and on E-Bay the asking price for one plus shipping is around $200. Then you need a throwout brg hub with bearing $45-50 plus some form of adapter sleeve for the hub $25-30, pilot bearing or bushing $20, lower shaft $30-$45, fork $30, return spring$3 & bolts $10. If your customer has to obtain these items from an outside source soon the cost of your plate ventures into the area of what mine costs or surpasses it. I'm sure your plate works fine. I judge how mine works by the number of kits I've sold since the mid 90's.

Gary, You do not need a sleeve for the "Bond" adapter that I sell. As this is one of the best features that Dwight incorporated into his design. It uses the factory ford 32-48 ford bearing retainer (slides over the T5 bearing retainer and bolts on the plate just like factory) Since it is stock early ford part it also has the provisions for the return spring. So basically when you use my adapter plate with the 48-52 ford truck hogshead everything is just like a stock 32-48 ford transmission only thing different is the clutch disc. Also almost always when you source a factory hogshead it has the fork and lower shaft with it. The bell I showed in the pic above came from a Customer who I built a Worldclass T5 transmission with a 2.95 gear set for who said he purchased the kit from you and was tired of the S10 gear ratio. When he was here and saw what I was using on my own builds he wanted to go with one of my adapters. Which saved him a bunch of money because otherwise if he would have stuck with your bell he would have had to have a GM WorldClass case and they are not easy to find these days and when you do find them they are about $450-500.00. Since my adapter is made so you can use any T5 transmission there was no need to hunt and pay up for the GM only case. I have had this bell in my shop and on the shelf for a few years now. I only keep it to show my customers the pros and cons of the different options they have when doing this So they can decide for themselves which way they want to go.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Can someone post a picture of this hub/adaptor sleeve that is needed? I'm trying to visual this.

This piece goes over the bearing retainer of the T5 input shaft?

Yes, increasing the OD of the snout on the bearing retainer. In the picture below, it is the CYLINDRICAL-shaped piece farthest to the right in picture.

[32coupe]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Can someone post a picture of this hub/adaptor sleeve that is needed? I'm trying to visual this.

This piece goes over the bearing retainer of the T5 input shaft?

Tim, that is what Speedway and Offy does. Your better off to do what Gary does and press a sleeve in the throwout bearing hub. If you do end up using a sleeve on the bearing retainer (from speedway) I would atleast put red locktite all over it or even a tack weld wouldn't hurt and even then you may still have problems down the road.

[Krylon32]

32 Coupe: I guess after this thread I might as well discontinue selling the kits I have left, quit running my ads on the Barn & HAMB, notify the machine shop to discontinue doing more bell housings and throw the remaining parts I have left in the scrap barrel. I have successfully sold these kits for about 30 years in numbers you wouldn't believe and now they have been deemed virtually useless by your claims of how superior your method is over my proven kit. The market for all the Hogs Head bell housings languishing in shops all over the country will skyrocket. That's OK, I'm 79 and have had a good run. Anything else I manufacture you'd like to demean?

[32coupe]

Originally Posted by Krylon32

32 Coupe: I guess after this thread I might as well discontinue selling the kits I have left, quit running my ads on the Barn & HAMB, notify the machine shop to discontinue doing more bell housings and throw the remaining parts I have left in the scrap barrel. I have successfully sold these kits for about 30 years in numbers you wouldn't believe and now they have been deemed virtually useless by your claims of how superior your method is over my proven kit. The market for all the Hogs Head bell housings languishing in shops all over the country will skyrocket. That's OK, I'm 79 and have had a good run. Anything else I manufacture you'd like to demean?

Man you need to get over yourself!! At 79 years old you should know better! I mean The nonsense in this last post makes you sound like a Cry baby toddler!! I myself and know one else here best I can tell is doing anything to hurt you. Bottomline is Keep selling your kit and be happy with that! There is no reason to start cry baby wining just because someone else offers another option or is doing something different. Dwight Bonds adapters have been out for about 30 years now! Nothing new here! Accept I made them available again. As a courtesy to you I did not post the other pic of the other bellhousing I keep here of a brand new Speedway motors bellhousing. Which 100 Percent came from the same mold as the bellhousing my customer Gave to me that he purchased from you. (even has the same imperfections in the casting) He never said one bad word about your kit He just decided he liked the Bond adapter setup better. And that fact alone warrants me or anyone else to compare your kit to the Offy, and Speedway kit. As aside from the few improvements you have made to it The adapter bellhousing is one in the same. Doesn't matter that you ground the Speedway logo off it or not. They still made it. This arguement is kinda like Ford and Chevy guys each one has their own opinion of which is better but at the end of the day they both will get you from point A to point B. Like I have said Your kit works and it works fine, But there are other and better options available. Modern Driveline makes a Nice adapter bell as well and like my adapter can be used for GM and Ford based T5's

[Ziggster]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Can someone post a picture of this hub/adaptor sleeve that is needed? I'm trying to visual this.

This piece goes over the bearing retainer of the T5 input shaft?

Here’s a couple pics of the sleeve pressed onto a new bearing retainer. The one Speedway sells will not work with the larger dia. needed for the early Ford TO bearing. I contacted them before I bit the bullet and had one custom machined.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Ziggster

Here’s a couple pics of the sleeve pressed onto a new bearing retainer. The one Speedway sells will not work with the larger dia. needed for the early Ford TO bearing. I contacted them before I bit the bullet and had one custom machined.

[Krylon32]

Cry Baby, you haven't got a clue. Until today I have made it a point to my knowledge not criticize other peoples products, but today you changed that. I think I'll quit while your ahead. I know when I'm beat. My life will go on without selling the T5 kits. It's been a good run.

[32coupe]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

Ziggster, What bellhousing are you using? Just wondering since you used the ford t5 bearing retainer Did you turn it down to fit a Speedway bellhousing?

[Ziggster]

I have a 59A and used a Hogs Head and MDL adapter. No further mod to the bearing retainer other than the adding the sleeve.