The Ford Barn

SUHRsc · 08-10-2015, 08:32 AM

Putting aside any concerns of installation and fitment into any specific car.

I'm looking for opinions or facts comparing the Lincoln overdrive used with their own transmission from around 1941 compared to a Columbia rear axle.

I'd like to know thoughts on durability, ease of driving, shifting etc.

At this point I have 3 Lincoln transmissions and no Columbia's. So I am trying to weigh out if it is worth the cost to buy a Columbia as opposed to modifying a car to fit the Lincoln transmission.

Also, are there ways to beef up the Lincoln like what is done to a Columbia.

A Mitchel is not an option at this point.

Thanks for any help!
Zach

Chris · 08-10-2015, 09:39 AM

I had one of those Lincoln trannys and they are a stout transmission from what I gather. The only issue I had is it was simply quite a bit involved with installing it in the car I wanted to use it in.

Bruce Lancaster · 08-10-2015, 11:28 AM

Lincoln V12 use R10 OD, same as used on practically all makes of 1950's cars with OD, which seemed to hold up all right. There was a less common R11 used on biggest cars, I think in general T-85 trans cars like the heavy '49 Lincolns and bigger engined Fords a few years later. That should give a guesstimate on strength...10 OK for '49 Fords, 11 needed for '57 312 police car. I would guess the 10 is probably stronger than a Columbia and that neither should be abused...but most squirrely driving would be done with OD locked out!
Innards of V-12 trans are same as early Fords except for higher gear ratios suited best for low rear gears supplemented by OD.
Lincoln trans has a couple of major OD protrusions on driver's side that look like they would require some hacking on a Ford X member...

expavr · 08-10-2015, 12:43 PM

I've put almost 6,000 miles on a 49 Merc O/D transmission in the tonner including pulling floats in parades and 65 MPH freeway driving with no problems whatsoever. I assume the Lincoln would perform the same. I can't speak to the Columbia axle, but it would seem that if you can adapt your vehicle to accept the O/D unit without too much trouble it would be a reasonable solution in terms of cost, especially since you have 3 of them.

Frank Miller · 08-11-2015, 06:33 AM

The OD trans is neat to drive. Wired in its original configuration you can shift in and out of overdrive with the gas pedal. The free wheeling also allows to make 1-2 and 2-3 shifts without the clutch.

Frank

jimTN · 08-11-2015, 06:46 AM

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The Columbgia requires no mods to the car whereas the L OD will require shorting the torque tube and driveshaft and a change to the x member and trans mtg. The Columbia will also shift automatically if properly installed and wired. All you have to do is push the clutch in to shift down.

scooder · 08-11-2015, 07:26 AM

Will a Colombia allow easy shift from 2 to 1 without double clutching like the Lincoln? Does it have a freewheel? Does it kick down? Can it be used like a two speed automatic in town?
These are genuine questions, I'm fully aware what the Borg Warner (Lincoln) type overdrive can do, I know squat about the Colombia can do, other than what it looks like and the fact it's an overdrive. Oh and it looks bloody heavy, in a light car the unsprung weight would play havoc with the handling I'd guess.
Martin.

jimTN · 08-11-2015, 07:40 AM

You can switch the C without clutching by letting off the gas and toggling the dash switch. It does not have a freewheel option. You can change the C in town by clutching it and using the dash switch to go to high.

Juergen · 08-11-2015, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimTN

You can switch the C without clutching by letting off the gas and toggling the dash switch. It does not have a freewheel option. You can change the C in town by clutching it and using the dash switch to go to high.

Jim, Don't you have to depress the clutch to complete the dash switch circuit? Isn't that the purpose of the electrical contact on the engine with the rod connected to the clutch pedal? I think you want the drive shaft to be freewheeling when changing between high and low.

rotorwrench · 08-11-2015, 08:34 AM

The Columbia is much like the two speed rear axle in a large truck. Both systems are decent enough as long as you don't flog them to death. The later R11 BW OD was developed for larger cubic inch engines like the MEL and FE blocks. They will take more flogging than the R10 but any of the three types can break under extremes. The Lincoln box is a big mother and would not be an easy fit but it could be done.

hotcoupe · 08-11-2015, 09:12 AM

i have a Columbia in my vehicle, but i would have used a Lincoln overdrive transmission if it would have fit without butchering the frame.
tom

rotorwrench · 08-11-2015, 12:33 PM

The shift solenoid sticks out the left side on all the FoMoCo BW OD transmissions. It's the part that has to be "worked around" to get them to fit inside the old X members. I've seen the convertible rocker set ups that relocate them underneath the tail shaft housing but they are hard to find. I've also seen a rocker device fabricated on the HAMB some time ago but doing a search there can be tricky since the changeover to the new format.

jimTN · 08-12-2015, 06:38 AM

You can use the dash switch to go to high by letting off the gas when yo switch it.

Frank Miller · 08-12-2015, 06:41 AM

They are reproducing the convertible bracket for about 300. Look up Ford Mercury association.

SUHRsc · 08-12-2015, 08:12 AM

Frank, do you have one of these brackets on your car? Any chance of a real photo?

rotorwrench · 08-12-2015, 08:16 AM

They don't have a photo, just the original illustration from the parts catalogs.
http://www.fordmercassociation.com/1...erchandise.htm

SUHRsc · 08-12-2015, 08:20 AM

Thanks Rotorwrench, I saw that...

Hopefully a real photo of one on a transmission would make more sense as to how it works.

Tim Ayers · 08-12-2015, 09:30 AM

Interesting stuff. I have a complete LZ R10 trans. I'm only going to use the gears & yoke. If someone can use the other parts, PM me. Wouldn't mind getting them out of my way.

SUHRsc · 08-12-2015, 09:45 AM

Tim, if no one steps up before Hershey, and you're coming to Hershey... keep me in mind.

Bruce Lancaster · 08-12-2015, 10:46 AM

On the convertible part...VanPelt parts drawings site has the exploded view of the non-convertible late trans and separate drawing of the rocker device. Focus on the mounting holes...one pair bolts to the od, other pair mounts the thing backwards and under, rocker hooks up the actuation.
I think there may be more coordinated pic in the shop manual.

08-10-2015, 08:32 AM	#1
SUHRsc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: near Hershey, PA Posts: 876	Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia Putting aside any concerns of installation and fitment into any specific car. I'm looking for opinions or facts comparing the Lincoln overdrive used with their own transmission from around 1941 compared to a Columbia rear axle. I'd like to know thoughts on durability, ease of driving, shifting etc. At this point I have 3 Lincoln transmissions and no Columbia's. So I am trying to weigh out if it is worth the cost to buy a Columbia as opposed to modifying a car to fit the Lincoln transmission. Also, are there ways to beef up the Lincoln like what is done to a Columbia. A Mitchel is not an option at this point. Thanks for any help! Zach __________________ -WANTED- Pre-War Speed Equipment Davies or Morrison Intake Manifold 77-6050B, 81AS - 81SB - 99AS - 99SB 19AS cylinder heads

08-10-2015, 09:39 AM	#2
Chris Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 2,976	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia I had one of those Lincoln trannys and they are a stout transmission from what I gather. The only issue I had is it was simply quite a bit involved with installing it in the car I wanted to use it in. __________________ Thee Inland Emperors

08-10-2015, 11:28 AM	#3
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia Lincoln V12 use R10 OD, same as used on practically all makes of 1950's cars with OD, which seemed to hold up all right. There was a less common R11 used on biggest cars, I think in general T-85 trans cars like the heavy '49 Lincolns and bigger engined Fords a few years later. That should give a guesstimate on strength...10 OK for '49 Fords, 11 needed for '57 312 police car. I would guess the 10 is probably stronger than a Columbia and that neither should be abused...but most squirrely driving would be done with OD locked out! Innards of V-12 trans are same as early Fords except for higher gear ratios suited best for low rear gears supplemented by OD. Lincoln trans has a couple of major OD protrusions on driver's side that look like they would require some hacking on a Ford X member...

08-10-2015, 12:43 PM	#4
expavr Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Hansville, WA Posts: 776	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia I've put almost 6,000 miles on a 49 Merc O/D transmission in the tonner including pulling floats in parades and 65 MPH freeway driving with no problems whatsoever. I assume the Lincoln would perform the same. I can't speak to the Columbia axle, but it would seem that if you can adapt your vehicle to accept the O/D unit without too much trouble it would be a reasonable solution in terms of cost, especially since you have 3 of them.

08-11-2015, 06:33 AM	#5
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia The OD trans is neat to drive. Wired in its original configuration you can shift in and out of overdrive with the gas pedal. The free wheeling also allows to make 1-2 and 2-3 shifts without the clutch. Frank __________________ “The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound

08-11-2015, 06:46 AM	#6
jimTN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Powell, TN Posts: 2,509	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The Columbgia requires no mods to the car whereas the L OD will require shorting the torque tube and driveshaft and a change to the x member and trans mtg. The Columbia will also shift automatically if properly installed and wired. All you have to do is push the clutch in to shift down.

08-11-2015, 07:26 AM	#7
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia Will a Colombia allow easy shift from 2 to 1 without double clutching like the Lincoln? Does it have a freewheel? Does it kick down? Can it be used like a two speed automatic in town? These are genuine questions, I'm fully aware what the Borg Warner (Lincoln) type overdrive can do, I know squat about the Colombia can do, other than what it looks like and the fact it's an overdrive. Oh and it looks bloody heavy, in a light car the unsprung weight would play havoc with the handling I'd guess. Martin.

08-11-2015, 07:40 AM	#8
jimTN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Powell, TN Posts: 2,509	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia You can switch the C without clutching by letting off the gas and toggling the dash switch. It does not have a freewheel option. You can change the C in town by clutching it and using the dash switch to go to high.

08-11-2015, 08:34 AM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia The Columbia is much like the two speed rear axle in a large truck. Both systems are decent enough as long as you don't flog them to death. The later R11 BW OD was developed for larger cubic inch engines like the MEL and FE blocks. They will take more flogging than the R10 but any of the three types can break under extremes. The Lincoln box is a big mother and would not be an easy fit but it could be done.

08-11-2015, 09:12 AM	#11
hotcoupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: imperial,mo Posts: 694	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia i have a Columbia in my vehicle, but i would have used a Lincoln overdrive transmission if it would have fit without butchering the frame. tom

08-11-2015, 12:33 PM	#12
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia The shift solenoid sticks out the left side on all the FoMoCo BW OD transmissions. It's the part that has to be "worked around" to get them to fit inside the old X members. I've seen the convertible rocker set ups that relocate them underneath the tail shaft housing but they are hard to find. I've also seen a rocker device fabricated on the HAMB some time ago but doing a search there can be tricky since the changeover to the new format.

08-12-2015, 06:38 AM	#13
jimTN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Powell, TN Posts: 2,509	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia You can use the dash switch to go to high by letting off the gas when yo switch it.

08-12-2015, 06:41 AM	#14
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia They are reproducing the convertible bracket for about 300. Look up Ford Mercury association. __________________ “The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound

08-12-2015, 08:12 AM	#15
SUHRsc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: near Hershey, PA Posts: 876	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia Frank, do you have one of these brackets on your car? Any chance of a real photo? __________________ -WANTED- Pre-War Speed Equipment Davies or Morrison Intake Manifold 77-6050B, 81AS - 81SB - 99AS - 99SB 19AS cylinder heads

08-12-2015, 08:16 AM	#16
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia They don't have a photo, just the original illustration from the parts catalogs. http://www.fordmercassociation.com/1...erchandise.htm

08-12-2015, 08:20 AM	#17
SUHRsc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: near Hershey, PA Posts: 876	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia Thanks Rotorwrench, I saw that... Hopefully a real photo of one on a transmission would make more sense as to how it works. __________________ -WANTED- Pre-War Speed Equipment Davies or Morrison Intake Manifold 77-6050B, 81AS - 81SB - 99AS - 99SB 19AS cylinder heads

08-12-2015, 09:30 AM	#18
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,181	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia Interesting stuff. I have a complete LZ R10 trans. I'm only going to use the gears & yoke. If someone can use the other parts, PM me. Wouldn't mind getting them out of my way.

08-12-2015, 09:45 AM	#19
SUHRsc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: near Hershey, PA Posts: 876	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia Tim, if no one steps up before Hershey, and you're coming to Hershey... keep me in mind. __________________ -WANTED- Pre-War Speed Equipment Davies or Morrison Intake Manifold 77-6050B, 81AS - 81SB - 99AS - 99SB 19AS cylinder heads

08-12-2015, 10:46 AM	#20
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Overdrive - Lincoln vs. Columbia On the convertible part...VanPelt parts drawings site has the exploded view of the non-convertible late trans and separate drawing of the rocker device. Focus on the mounting holes...one pair bolts to the od, other pair mounts the thing backwards and under, rocker hooks up the actuation. I think there may be more coordinated pic in the shop manual.