|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
03-01-2024, 09:10 PM | #21 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: North Warrandyte, Melbourne,Victoria, Australia
Posts: 68
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
BEWARE of Kobe brand sold in a black&orange or red box they're made in china,
As is most Ford spare parts vendors selling B7121 as NONE are made in USA anymore try to find either: O.E.M/ORIGINAL FORD OR HYATT/RBC/BOWER. |
03-01-2024, 11:13 PM | #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 10,950
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Quote:
Can you post the source for that bearing you mentioned? Does it look like this: https://www.skf.com/group/products/r...oller-bearings To press fit into a Ford cluster gear bore it would have to have an OD of at least 1.127in. It also must have an ID of .750 in. or this: https://www.radwell.com/Shop?source=...%20-%20Remnant Length is also critical so as to match OEM FORD bearing lengths. Last edited by 19Fordy; 03-01-2024 at 11:24 PM. |
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
03-02-2024, 08:06 AM | #23 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Kansas
Posts: 922
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Quote:
My answer is...I don't know what the heck is going on. I replaced the bad cluster and other gears with a complete set from a friend, changing from the 15/29 to a16/28 set and those bearings are the part numbers I wrote in my notes. Hmm....I need to check further. Terry
__________________
"It don't take but country smarts to solve the problem" (Smokey Yunick) '41 Merc Town Sedan / 260" 8CM engine '66 Fairlane four door / "warmed up" 302 |
|
03-02-2024, 08:16 AM | #24 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,181
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Quote:
I am no engineer, but I don't see the advantage of converting the cluster to press fit bearings in this situation. What would be the advantage to this? |
|
03-02-2024, 10:20 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 10,950
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Like Tim said, "I am no engineer, but I don't see the advantage of converting the cluster to press fit bearings in this situation. What would be the advantage to this?"
I guess the only advantage is that you might be able to find "press fit bearings" that are of better quality than the China reproductions and work well. It would be great if someone would actually post the part number of the press fit bearing that actually works as well as the OEM Ford bearing. Here is the website of Consolidated Bearings where you can type in the bearing specs you need and search for a suitable needle bearing. I wonder if the inner sleeve needed comes with the bearing? https://consbrgs.com/catalog/search-products/ Can someone explain how you can press this type bearing into a bore and not deform the outer cage? I think the install is similar to this procedure using an inner sleeve. https://www.bing.com/videos/rivervie...CA74&FORM=VIRE Last edited by 19Fordy; 03-02-2024 at 10:58 AM. |
03-02-2024, 05:20 PM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 165
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
If the caged rollers give you the heebie jeebies then source an 8A-7113 small bore cluster gear and use the loose needles. On the other hand, I am interested in any application of modern bearings to these old transmissions. Keep the ideas coming. |
03-02-2024, 10:22 PM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Orcas Island Washington
Posts: 4,942
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Well.... It just so happens I am in the middle of rebuilding the transfer case for the 'foyota', my toyota landcruiser in ford clothing. The guys on the primary landcruiser forum are very particular about where 'overseas' their parts are manufactured. A lot of the parts from the early cruisers are no longer available from toyota, but the Japanese aftermarket hard parts like bearings and gears are the go to for the faithful. After reading this thread I decided I should open the box that arrived yesterday from a landcruiser supplier. All the parts are made in Japan including gaskets and seals. The (caged?) roller bearings are for a set of idler gears that ride on a 1" shaft. There is no sleeve. The kit comes with a new idler shaft as it is considered a wear item. Mine has just under 200k on it and shows about .003 of wear on one end. There was a post 3 days ago from a guy that bought a case hardened 1" shaft from McMaster Carr and had a friend machine a groove on one end and a thread into one end. So, while all this stuff is new to me, I think it's timely that maybe some alternatives to the other 'overseas' bearings and shafts may be at hand. I don't see any markings on the caged bearings, but all others in the box are of Japanese manufacture. They also look like they could be pressed in place as long as the interference wasn't to great. Of course the size would be different for our Fords. Just thinking out loud here.
__________________
Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
03-02-2024, 10:59 PM | #28 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Kansas
Posts: 922
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Quote:
The 8A 7113 cluster has a 1" bore and the bearings I listed fit that cluster...that's the reason. My newer gear set (installed in the '41 case) allowed me to use the B1212 bearings.
__________________
"It don't take but country smarts to solve the problem" (Smokey Yunick) '41 Merc Town Sedan / 260" 8CM engine '66 Fairlane four door / "warmed up" 302 |
|
03-03-2024, 02:03 AM | #29 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,156
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Quote:
__________________
The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... "Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!" "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0 |
|
03-03-2024, 12:37 PM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sw minnesota
Posts: 4,578
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Sliding off coarse a bit...That double gear GB has sitting next to the transfer case is the intermediate gear which runs on the caged rollers that failed for me. In my case, the gear was an NOS Willys gear, the teeth survived but the inner bearing surface was wrecked.
The solution, the rock crawler guys have come up with is you send the gear to herm the overdrive guy in WA state and he machines the gear to take a timkin bearing cup on each end , then timkin bearings sit on a shaft with a shoulder and you set the pre load like a front wheel bearing. Very strong and runs quieter, saved my original gear. GB those Koyo bearings look well made. Carry on.... |
03-03-2024, 01:03 PM | #31 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 10,950
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Quote:
I wonder if Henry changed his specs. somewhere along the line. I don't see 8A-7113 listed in the GREEN BIBLE. However, I did find 8A-7113-A for 1949-50 Fords on Google. Also, here: https://www.2040-parts.com/nos-1949-...a7113-i203082/ https://cgfordparts.com/cluster-gear...8a-7113-a.html Thanks for hanging in there with this discussion. Jim Last edited by 19Fordy; 03-03-2024 at 01:13 PM. |
|
03-03-2024, 05:17 PM | #32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Kansas
Posts: 922
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
That must be the gear set I got to put in my case. The cluster is the one that originally used loose rollers with no cages. That's why it's smaller ID...it's all coming back to me. You'd think I'd remember better. Geez.
__________________
"It don't take but country smarts to solve the problem" (Smokey Yunick) '41 Merc Town Sedan / 260" 8CM engine '66 Fairlane four door / "warmed up" 302 |
03-03-2024, 05:22 PM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Orcas Island Washington
Posts: 4,942
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Seems to me the green bible only goes to 1948 models. And Skip this transfer case job is a practice run for my woodie's transmission. It's actually way easier than I thought. A little help from some landcruiser geeks on youtube.
__________________
Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson) |
03-03-2024, 06:37 PM | #34 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: North Warrandyte, Melbourne,Victoria, Australia
Posts: 68
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
No it's neither of those type of bearings google "NU" needle roller bearings.
|
03-03-2024, 06:40 PM | #35 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: North Warrandyte, Melbourne,Victoria, Australia
Posts: 68
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Less wear to minimal wear on the shaft + the bearing (NU type) comes with a inner race,
So that instead of the bearing sitting on the shaft only the inner race/sleeve does therefore eliminating wear. |
03-21-2024, 12:36 AM | #36 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 398
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Quote:
|
|
03-21-2024, 08:11 AM | #37 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,070
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
I believe the original shafts at .750 on the nose - and are very hard (heat treated). I could not find any NOS shafts, so I made my own out of hard linear shafting from Thomson. All the repop ones that I've seen are made with inferior materials, have poor surface finish and are not hard enough. They're also undersized by a thou or two - which adds slop and contributes to leaks in the front/rear of the case.
I bought the shafts with the last 2" or so of the end soft. This allowed me to add the pin-hole that is needed in the rear (using a carbide end-mill) along with a custom o-ring that I put on the shafts to help seal them. I think I purchased them through McMaster-Carr. I'm not sure what is available today, but they had them in various lengths (so I could get exactly what I needed). They were 60 rockwell in hardness |
03-21-2024, 07:18 PM | #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,070
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
Here are a couple of the shafts I made - these ones have "end caps" to seal the oil from leaking out. Since then I've been using o-rings (with grooves) on the ends of each shaft. I also shorten the little rod in the back and TAP the ends to seal it up.
NewShafts2 copy.jpg NewShaftsWithEndCaps copy.jpg |
03-21-2024, 07:27 PM | #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,070
|
Re: Transmission Countershaft and Bearings Question
I went back and checked my pictures I took of when I miced some shafts. As you can see, my new shafts are spot-on, while the repop ones are .002 smaller in the OD. This causes slop in the bearings as well as additional case leakage. Also the repops are nowhere near as hard as the originals or ground with the correct finish.
Original Shaft: Non-Worn Area: OriginalShaft-UnwornArea copy.jpg New Reproduction Shafts: .002 smaller NewReproduction copy.jpg My New Shaft: DalesNewShaftDiameter copy.jpg |
|
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|