Position of the spark lever question

[700rpm]

When I bought my first model A, my dad, who grew up with them when they were new, told me to retard the spark when starting, and as soon as it fired, pull the spark down to full advance and drive off, leaving the spark lever there. My reprint of Victor Page's book from 1928 says the same thing: drive the car with the spark fully advanced. For 50 years that's how I've driven my Model A's.

But now I've been advised by three knowledgeable Model A guys that actually the spark should be set to about the 9:00 position and driven there, adjusted occasionally depending on load and road conditions. I have always retarded the spark on steep hills, but otherwise left it advanced. Until now. I have to admit that my cars drive much better with this newer adjustment method. So my question is, were my father and Victor Page just wrong? Or was this the way Ford originally advised new car owners to drive their cars, with the lever fully advanced? I don't have an owner's manual; what does it say in there?

[MrTube]

I'm no expert but I found our "A" idles best with the timing advanced just a hair and runs good down the road around 3/4 advanced at 35-45mph and full advance at 50+.

Technically speaking I believe the "A" timing system gives around 30 degrees of advance all the way down, there is NO WAY the engine could possibly like idling or running slow with that much advance.

[Patrick L.]

It all kinda depends on where the initial timing is set.. If it is set correctly then generally they like about 1/2 to 2/3 for most driving and full for cruising at higher road speeds.. It seems that all cars are not created equal and each has its 'sweet spot' that you'll find after you're used to playing with the car.. Mine doesn't really like full advance..

[HoarseWhisperer]

Spark lever position for starting and driving is well covered in the Model A Instruction Book.

Modifications may alter the original recommendations somewhat.

[Dave in Boise]

I've been told by a fella in our club that matching the lever position to the intended engine RPM for crusing seems to be pretty suitable for most driving..

i.e. Full Retard for parades and starting, as the engine is at the lowest rpms, tjhen about 1/2 advanced (down) as the motor runs about 1000-1500 rpm for running around town (1/2 the rpms the motor is capable) and 3/4 to full advance for wide open running. The key is to run the lever to match the average RPM's of the motor, from idle at full retard, to full rpms at full advance..

Also, the same fellow also pointted out that dropping your spark lever into full retard on a long hill will give you a bit more engine braking. Each A seems to have it's preference, so these are just suggestions.. your milage may vary (lol)

- Dave

[Dave in Boise]

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also, retarding the spark on long hills, as stated above is a must I overheated my first A on it's maiden voyage on a 6% grade.. Live and learn!

[bogiediver]

Don't remember where I heard it, but someone suggested full retard for starting (to avoid the dreaded starter kickback), then 2-3 notches of advance at idle, then add 1 notch of advance for each 5 MPH going down the road...

Which is just another way of saying what most above have said...

FWIW

[elljon1]

My barn fresh tudor ran great with the spark half down for a while, then it got running bad I discovered my moving the spark handle over time had worked all the dirt loose that was keeping the worn linkage at the bottom of the spark rod tight, so when I was setting it all the way down it was only advancing the spark maybe a 1/3 of the way.

[rickmass]

This might sound a little dumb to retard it is down than put it back up to drive ,or put it a nine to drive, Rickmass

[CarlG]

Retard up, Advance down.

[rickmass]

Thank,s Carl as this is my first A Tthe guy I bought it from never told me.Thank,s again Rickmass

[Jordan]

UP to start, ALL the way down to drive. I've never had a problem with it, and my grandpa drove them this way for 60 years without a problem.

[ctlikon0712]

There is a great 2 part video on YouTube by Les Andrews about timing your model A. In it he describes how to use the advance lever in different driving conditions. He says to fully retard to start and thereafter to advance the lever one notch for every 5 mph. There are 11 notches.

[HoarseWhisperer]

My understanding is, use less advance when running hi-compression heads.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

When I bought my first model A, my dad, who grew up with them when they were new, told me to retard the spark when starting, and as soon as it fired, pull the spark down to full advance and drive off, leaving the spark lever there. My reprint of Victor Page's book from 1928 says the same thing: drive the car with the spark fully advanced. For 50 years that's how I've driven my Model A's.

But now I've been advised by three knowledgeable Model A guys that actually the spark should be set to about the 9:00 position and driven there, adjusted occasionally depending on load and road conditions. I have always retarded the spark on steep hills, but otherwise left it advanced. Until now. I have to admit that my cars drive much better with this newer adjustment method. So my question is, were my father and Victor Page just wrong? Or was this the way Ford originally advised new car owners to drive their cars, with the lever fully advanced? I don't have an owner's manual; what does it say in there?

Were they wrong I say yes. But they did it for a reason, it would be to hard for the average driver to under stand the best way to use the spark lever. Most do not know what the lever really does.

[ora masters]

Originally Posted by Jordan

UP to start, ALL the way down to drive. I've never had a problem with it, and my grandpa drove them this way for 60 years without a problem.

me too and i have ben driveing them for 70 years

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

And if you"WONDER" if your timin' is "RIGHT"???, do this: Spark up, she goes,"Tada, Tada, Tada, Tada, very SMOOTHLY, 1/2 down, a faster SMOOTH idle, full down, an even faster, but sorta' "ROLLING" idle. WHEN YOU'VE GOT ALL THESE, DON'T MESS WITH IT, IT'S PERFECT!
Sorry for all the "YELLING" capital letters, but that's how Chief said it to me! Bill W.

[ctlikon0712]

That's the greatest explanantion I've heard so far Bill! Well put.

[MrTube]

Originally Posted by ora masters

me too and i have ben driveing them for 70 years

And your worried about setting the base timing right? At this point who cares as long as it runs apparently.


I agree with George Miller, however I do not agree with operating the timing control in this manner, its just plan wrong. I also have to ASSUME its terribly hard on Babbit and anything else getting pounded by the pistons getting rammed into the igniting fuel way too soon. The so called rolling idle is your engine destroying it self.

You know how to tell when its set right idling? Advance it until the engine speeds up, at one point its going to stop speeding up and its going to start running rough. Back up a hair and thats the sweet spot, the point where it runs happy. This is ONLY true at idle, any given RPM and throttle position has a specific sweet spot, ergo why a human cannot control timing advance accurately. You should at least TRY to control it the best you can though, simply running full advance is not the answer.


If this response came across rude I'm sorry, its not intended to be that way.

[700rpm]

Thanks everyone. All my cars are tuned to a gnat's eyebrow, and I will henceforth drive them with greater attention to the position of the spark levers.