An important message from Bob Drake to Mr. Lawson Cox

[Bob Drake Repro]

Mr. Cox,

Thank you for posting and being a part of this community. This is a great way to share information and also show our shared dedication and passion for the early Ford cars and trucks.

As you know, sites like this are available for public viewing and input from people all over the world and it lends itself to grow the hobby and be a resource for the new people that are becoming part of our community of early Ford V8’s. Something we like to call “Keeping the Spirit Alive”.

We have noticed over the past few years that you and a certain number of posters on this site and the original “Ford Barn”, have made derogatory statements towards me and my company. I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but the fact is, these statements are not justified and could possibly be considered slander.

I began this humble business in 1971 and started it with what I call an “open door” policy. Meaning, we strive for 100% customer satisfaction, both in our product line and our service. If we have in any way done you wrong, please drop me a line and we will get it right to your satisfaction. This goes for each and every one of our customers, whether you are new or have bought parts from us over the years. We’re here to help but we are only human and could possibly make mistakes. To rectify any misunderstandings, we need the proper input.

Here’s a little story from 1974. When I came out with my first die cast, chrome part, the Ford script locking gas cap, I had a customer return a cap in a hundred pieces with a nasty letter. I was very proud of my gas cap and it turned out that the cap he sent back was not mine. Instead of sending him back a nasty letter with his pile of parts, I decided to send him one of my new caps for free to show him the quality. He was blown away and has been a great customer ever since. This is the kind of company that we are, and the type of attitude that we try to pass on to all our employees.

I understand you are compiling the 1935-1936 Ford pickup book for the Early Ford V8 Club of America. I am a member and I’m active in the club as well. I have an extensive collection of original parts and accessories and some collectibles for those years of trucks and would like to invite you to ask us for any information or pictures that may help you with the book. We can also give you written permission to use any artwork in our copyrighted catalogs, like we did for earlier V8 club books.

I’m not only in the business, but I’m also involved in this hobby. I go to many swap meets and trade shows and have had the pleasure of meeting many of you personally. I invite anybody to come to our booth to say “hey”, share a good story or give us the chance to fix a bad one.

Regards, Bob

[gz]

Bob-You have been in this hobby and business for many years and the contributions made by you have been numerous. Thank you for doing so much to keep these old Fords alive. Without people like yourself, this hobby would not be what it is today. Bob Drake Reproductions has always been, and always will be, a FIRST CLASS ACT in my book and many others.

[HOTRODPRIMER]

Bob,I will repeat my previous statement,,

I've done business with you for many years ,1985 to be exact,and the first item I purchased was the locking gas cap,along with hundreds of other 40 Ford parts and in recent years 32 parts.

I still refer to the old catalog as a reference guide for assembly.



I have never experienced any problems with any part.

My only complaint which is more of a disappointment is the notebook catalog that never came to a conclusion. HRP

[Tim Brown]

Right on Bob!

[lee34]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

Right on Bob!

Bob; I have been driving my 34 sedan since 1960 and over the years (many) I have purchased a wide selection of parts.All were as good or better than Henry made.Lee34

[Ken Crans]

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Bob, Only had one problem... The fuel sending unit for the 40-47 Ford truck. I didn't like the "universal" design. In other words, bend the float to suit. But i made due and it does work as advertised. I'm curious on the new 40 Ford truck front fenders. I got to see these. Thanks Ken Crans

[Roger W Gerow]

I recently ordered the complete weather stripping surround kit for my '40 Ford tudor. They fit perfectly, even came with adhesive attached. Couldn't be more pleased.

[Lawson Cox]

Originally Posted by Bob Drake Repro

Mr. Cox,

Thank you for posting and being a part of this community. This is a great way to share information and also show our shared dedication and passion for the early Ford cars and trucks.

As you know, sites like this are available for public viewing and input from people all over the world and it lends itself to grow the hobby and be a resource for the new people that are becoming part of our community of early Ford V8’s. Something we like to call “Keeping the Spirit Alive”.

We have noticed over the past few years that you and a certain number of posters on this site and the original “Ford Barn”, have made derogatory statements towards me and my company. I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but the fact is, these statements are not justified and could possibly be considered slander.

I began this humble business in 1971 and started it with what I call an “open door” policy. Meaning, we strive for 100% customer satisfaction, both in our product line and our service. If we have in any way done you wrong, please drop me a line and we will get it right to your satisfaction. This goes for each and every one of our customers, whether you are new or have bought parts from us over the years. We’re here to help but we are only human and could possibly make mistakes. To rectify any misunderstandings, we need the proper input.

Here’s a little story from 1974. When I came out with my first die cast, chrome part, the Ford script locking gas cap, I had a customer return a cap in a hundred pieces with a nasty letter. I was very proud of my gas cap and it turned out that the cap he sent back was not mine. Instead of sending him back a nasty letter with his pile of parts, I decided to send him one of my new caps for free to show him the quality. He was blown away and has been a great customer ever since. This is the kind of company that we are, and the type of attitude that we try to pass on to all our employees.

I understand you are compiling the 1935-1936 Ford pickup book for the Early Ford V8 Club of America. I am a member and I’m active in the club as well. I have an extensive collection of original parts and accessories and some collectibles for those years of trucks and would like to invite you to ask us for any information or pictures that may help you with the book. We can also give you written permission to use any artwork in our copyrighted catalogs, like we did for earlier V8 club books.

I’m not only in the business, but I’m also involved in this hobby. I go to many swap meets and trade shows and have had the pleasure of meeting many of you personally. I invite anybody to come to our booth to say “hey”, share a good story or give us the chance to fix a bad one.

Regards, Bob

Bob:

I don't know why you picked me out of the many complainers to jump on, but so be it, it is not the first time I have been jumped on in my 79+ years, and it will probably not be the last. LOL

My only complaints have been about folks who claim to have an exact reproduction part, and it does not fit or function as original or as advertised, but when a complaint is voiced the come back is always "we have never had any complaints". I have not limited my remarks to you, but have voiced the same complaints about others who "reproduce" parts as well.

Lawson

[bbrocksr]

Lawson don't worry about why, Take him up on his offer . I think that was pretty decent of him after all the badmouthing he got on this site.
Just my opinion, Bill Brock

[RMR&C]

Just saw this on the hamb too....a little free advertising it seems.

Oh well, I still won't buy from him.

Hey Lawson, I think he wants to be in your book!!!!

[havi]

Communication is a two way street.

[FL&WVMIKE]

LAWSON COX ..........................
When he first went into business, and made his own parts, he had a First Class reputation ! I'm sure that we all remember that !
After he started having all his parts made in China, the quality suffered badly. Anyone who called him on that, was told that their complaint was the first they had ever heard and treated them like they did not know what they were talking about.
Another thing, when he started having his running boards made in China, for a fraction of the cost of USA made boards, is when he raised his prices.
How can you treat people like that and not expect some repercussions ?
MIKE

[Cecil/WV]

I've had no complaints with his parts.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by FL&WVMIKE

LAWSON COX ..........................
When he first went into business, and made his own parts, he had a First Class reputation ! I'm sure that we all remember that !

Originally Posted by FL&WVMIKE

After he started having all his parts made in China, the quality suffered badly. Anyone who called him on that, was told that their complaint was the first they had ever heard and treated them like they did not know what they were talking about.
Another thing, when he started having his running boards made in China, for a fraction of the cost of USA made boards, is when he raised his prices.
How can you treat people like that and not expect some repercussions ?
MIKE

If we're to choose sides, put me on the Lawson and FL&WVMIKE team. Mike, you couldn't have summed up the problem areas any more accurately and truthfully than you've done. I might guess some of the bad reports are taking a noticeable toll? From my experience and apparently many others, that's when (finally) a response is made.
How about the water pumps that didn't fit the blocks? It seems each guy that questioned that problem was "the first we've heard about it". Only when the problem went viral did it get handled.

[tom/illinois]

What would be the reason a manufacturer would take production to China?............Maybe something called GREED.

[Milt/Las Vegas]

You guys are something else.I've been buying from Bob for years,and for the most part have been very happy with the quality.The 40 body wouldn't being made if it were made in the states because the price would be thru the ceiling.You can thank our politicians for everything being made in china.You expect him to invent the wheel.We only have a few parts manufacturers,and you're trying to drive one out of business.You'd better find out what side your bread is buttered on.

[havi]

Originally Posted by tom/illinois

What would be the reason a manufacturer would take production to China?............Maybe something called GREED.

Or the competitors already have, and force one to either go with it, or file bankruptcy. Just saying.

(my management hangs this over our heads: Work harder, or your job goes to China)

[David J]

Originally Posted by Lawson Cox

Bob:

I don't know why you picked me out of the many complainers to jump on, but so be it, it is not the first time I have been jumped on in my 79+ years, and it will probably not be the last. LOL



Lawson

Hey Lawson , Isn't it a compliment when the high and mighty choose YOU as the target for return fire !!!!! This is good stuff for the peanut gallery !!!!!!!! David J

[Sid the Maineiac]

I wonder how many of Bob Drakes parts are sold to the Chinese? I would like to hear some statistics on the U.S.A. made versus overseas made cost comparisons..I realize that Bob Drake is not the only one getting products made overseas but the majority of people who buy his parts has someone they know who has lost their job due to overseas production of formerly American made products.Where does it stop?

[41PICUP]

I agree with Milt.
I have no complaints with products I've got from Drake.
I'd recommend them, always had good service too.

[charles in east texas]

I bought a pair of rubber floor board seals for my 39 coupe from Drake and wasted around $100 bucks. No way I could get them to work after trying for two days. That left a bad taste in my mouth. Regards, Charles

[tom/illinois]

I have no objection to parts made in China if they are quality. I have issues with high prices for junk parts. Politicians as well as manufacturers are guilty.

[dave m]

Ya why don't they just put in ther'e catalogue part sorta like orig might fit or maybe not---now thats truth in advertising----parts will never be 100% correct untill there made in the good ol usa again by someone that has a passion for the hobby---my 2 cents

[Fordors]

I'm no marketing genius but unfortunately we do have to buy products made off shore every day. Some are "top shelf" in fit/finish/function and some are not. I'm at the keyboard of a Dell 'puter right now and for sure it wasn't made in the US of A but to me it's the best around. Looks and performs good, just as I expected. The specifications for an item come from the one desiring a quote from the producer. If the design, dimensions, and materials called out for are sound then so too will be the product. Bottom line for me is this-if a vendor feels a need to get something made off shore they need to spec that item to be the best available if they desire happy consumers. If they have done that and after a test shot the product is inferior it's time for a different off shore source. Sounds easy enough, but then again I've never tried.

[Frank The Plumber]

I would rather buy parts from guys like Bubba, Dick Spadaro, Shelly, and others that are a part of the common cause. On the HAMB I would rather buy from some of the hot rod parts and Ford parts vendors who support the cause. If you don't want people talking about poor quality and fitment address the issues. In this society if you do something wrong you will end up blogged about or Angie'd, that's the way it goes. If you are really sincere and want to be a part of the community maybe you should become a lot more involved, remember your roots, be that guy again. It's in your best interests to contact Ryan, the guy who operates these forums and become an alliance vendor on the HAMB. Are you a victim of a lack of your own interaction with the community you serve? A tech column by Drake or a bit of history or a good story or tech article would show the guys you care. Some, myself included relish articles by established guys. You can spend millions on catalogs showing you smiling or you could spend half an hour giving yourself to this group as a valued pioneer of Ford history, in the end the personal gift of your presence will be worth more towards your goals. Your persona will be better, your legacy more fit and you will enjoy it too. Hope to read a Drake tech article here soon.

[ole_Bill]

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Bob - I have a list of 34 companies that I deal with on restoration projects. Most are excellent or they get removed from the list. I am impressed that you took the time to write and explain your position. That in itself means a lot to me. You just went to the top of my "good guys" list.

[ford1]

Hey Lawson, the next time you want to say something about a company or person, start by saying, "In My Opion" that way you are covered, doing that doesnt mean the person or company is what you said, just your opion, and in spite of Obama trying to take away all our freedoms , here in the U.S.A. you are still allowed your opion, but for how long is any bodys guess

[alv]

i was always told if you don't have anything good to say about someone don' t say anything. drakes has many parts that no other company has but nobody has to buy from them instead spend the big dollars to get nos parts and get on with it. use the old rule when buying parts fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

[Fordors]

In my opinion ford1 needs to learn how to spell opinion. I think I'm covered here, right?

[TonyM]

Originally Posted by Milt/Las Vegas

.You can thank our politicians for everything being made in china..

WRONG!!! It's the suits (business executives) that make the decision to use off shore production because it is cheaper to pay overseas workers than to pay Americans. Politicians don't make these decisions, business people do.

If you want to blame the politicians for anything, blame them (both D and R) for providing the suits with tax breaks that let them avoid paying taxes here in this country because their Company HQ is a PO Box on some island somewhere. That is un patriotic during wartime.

By the way Ford1 and Milt, I come here to get away from politics; I come here to talk Fords. On the aviation web forums, we do a good job of keeping politics off the boards. Political attacks do nothing to further the conversation and they create ill will among the forum members. Let's stick to Ford discussion.

TM

[Tinker]

Everything posted on a forum is an expression of "their Opinion". Take it for what you want. Personally in my opinion someone saying they are unhappy with a product isn't slander either unless they are financially profiting from it. These are personal experiences typed on a forum, not corporate espionage.

***I don't have anything good or bad to say about Drake products.

**** Oh wait I forgot, I bought a upper radiator shield that goes on a 42-48 ford. I called to make the order and was reassured that it would fit my 42 I had at the time. Nope, guess that is why it was in the reduced special section (it still was $70+ shipping). My bad for not going through the hassle of sending it back or ever bitching about it online... well I guess till this thread came up. Still have it if you want to come by and get it.

[Mike in AZ]

Mr. Drake....thanks for your posting....first, if it's written, it might be libelous...oral statements can be slanderous....if you can lead us to the statements you consider "slander", perhaps we would have a better idea of what you are referring....as this is an open forum, to the most part, you can address Lawson's statements and perhaps come to an understanding....or at least, you will understand better why he considered himself "justified" and why he posted what he did....and we will be able to see you do what you said you did with your gas cap....strive for 100% satisfaction....thanks...Mike

[HOTRODPRIMER]

I'm happy people like Bob Drake are in the business to supply those hard to find parts.

I have used original Henry Ford parts taken from one car and used on another and had problems making them fit. HRP

[Kube]

Originally Posted by charles in east texas

I bought a pair of rubber floor board seals for my 39 coupe from Drake and wasted around $100 bucks. No way I could get them to work after trying for two days. That left a bad taste in my mouth. Regards, Charles

I thought I was the only one that had that trouble. I had the exact same experience. I cut mine, glued, etc. to make fit correctly.
Another one of those advertised as a 'perfect recreation'.

I will agree in part that Drake has helped me and I am certain others out. However, there are too many examples of items NOT being what they are purported to be. My main concern is that I get what I paid for ... that is what the part was advertised to be and the service I was promised.
Definitely not the place it was in the 'early days'.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Fordors

I'm no marketing genius but unfortunately we do have to buy products made off shore every day. Some are "top shelf" in fit/finish/function and some are not. I'm at the keyboard of a Dell 'puter right now and for sure it wasn't made in the US of A but to me it's the best around. Looks and performs good, just as I expected. The specifications for an item come from the one desiring a quote from the producer. If the design, dimensions, and materials called out for are sound then so too will be the product. Bottom line for me is this-if a vendor feels a need to get something made off shore they need to spec that item to be the best available if they desire happy consumers. If they have done that and after a test shot the product is inferior it's time for a different off shore source. Sounds easy enough, but then again I've never tried.

You have nailed this on the head. China can and will produce top quality IF and only IF the purchaser requires it. As tolerance specifications get tighter, the price goes up accordingly. Price goes up, profit goes down. A certain choice for the buyer, in this case Drake, to make.

[296 V8]

Bob Drake Reproductions
Highly appreciated here ...... thank you ser.

[Bob NH]

Kinda brings a tear to your eye don't it ? Seeing all the parts being produced overseas. Interesting that no one faults the greed of labor unions and their constant demands that force manufacturing jobs out of this country for cheaper labor. I will be very surprised if when this slump is over any of the great jobs we all knew will ever return. I really hate to sound so dismal but the writing is on the wall if you lQQk without colored glasses, Sad

[Da Tinman]

My opinion,, this thread and the one on the hamb both suck. If mr lawson is the only person po-ed about drakes products then drake is a the man when it comes to manufacturing and selling stuff, millions of items sold and ONE guy is mad?

so this is a personal attack done to embarass ONE guy. Nice way to do things.

If the mesage says "Important message from Mr Whoseewhatsit to any persons that have had difficulty with us" it would be a whole different discussion.

As it stands,, I believe there is some merit to Mr Lawsons statements, (I havent read em, and dont care too) or the message would have read "important message from Mr Whoseewhatsit to Mr Otherendofthetable, Our lawyers are coming for you."

If anyone else were to make this kind of call out specifically aimed at someone else the thread wouldnt last 2 minutes.

I could be wrong though.

[amodel25]

This was closed on the HAMB 12 hours ago. Why keep harping on it here?

[296 V8]

Because metal shapes is powerless here to force his opinion on us.
(I’m sure Ryan would disagree )

[Bassman/NZ]

Originally Posted by TonyM

WRONG!!! It's the suits (business executives) that make the decision to use off shore production because it is cheaper to pay overseas workers than to pay Americans. Politicians don't make these decisions, business people do.

If you want to blame the politicians for anything, blame them (both D and R) for providing the suits with tax breaks that let them avoid paying taxes here in this country because their Company HQ is a PO Box on some island somewhere. That is un patriotic during wartime.

By the way Ford1 and Milt, I come here to get away from politics; I come here to talk Fords. On the aviation web forums, we do a good job of keeping politics off the boards. Political attacks do nothing to further the conversation and they create ill will among the forum members. Let's stick to Ford discussion.

TM

Wrong again! It's us, the customer. In this day and age we want cheap! Unfortunately we also want top quality, but out of cheap and quality, only one can be chosen. (I'm generalising, of course).
If we selected quality rather than cheap, parts would still be made in the USA. But of course we dont, we want best price, so the manufacture of parts is contracted out to offshore companies.
I guess we should be thankful that we can even get parts for our 80 year old cars.

[uncle buck]

Originally Posted by tom/illinois

What would be the reason a manufacturer would take production to China?............Maybe something called GREED.

It most definately couldn't have anything to do with people griping about how much something made in the USA with government /EPA regulations plus our wages we require and in limited quantities is too expensive.

[Mr 42]

To be honest, im not interrested in when you started your business or what you did 1974.

Im more interested how you do business today.

And what ive read here it's so and so sometimes.
So shape up and come with some valid up to date example's.
Or keep quiet.

Would like to read your version about the waterpump debacle.

Your reply makes me wonder if not Mr Cox had a point or two?

[uncle buck]

Originally Posted by dave m

Ya why don't they just put in ther'e catalogue part sorta like orig might fit or maybe not---now thats truth in advertising----parts will never be 100% correct untill there made in the good ol usa again by someone that has a passion for the hobby---my 2 cents

I say BS about that. We seem to gripe from time to time about EMS and Brookville too don't we? They were never pefect when these cars were new. Our expectations are Mercedes quality of a car that was built to be sold at an affordible price. Henry used more than one supplier of many parts and most of us will choose one of these variations to compare the reproduction part to and ignore the differences in the others. Refer to the 32 Ford grill insert differences thread if you need to. I am thankful to Have Bob making parts for us. Last I checked , business are a for profit philosiphy , government isn't. If any of you can do better, I welcome you to do it!

[Mike in AZ]

huh...still able to pull it up.....Mike

[Mike in AZ]

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whoops....went back and read the final post and can see the thread is closed to more posting...sorry....Mike

[uncle buck]

Originally Posted by 296 V8

Bob Drake Reproductions
Highly appreciated here ...... thank you sir.

what he said !

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Bassman/NZ

Wrong again! It's us, the customer. In this day and age we want cheap! Unfortunately we also want top quality, but out of cheap and quality, only one can be chosen. (I'm generalising, of course).
If we selected quality rather than cheap, parts would still be made in the USA. But of course we dont, we want best price, so the manufacture of parts is contracted out to offshore companies.
I guess we should be thankful that we can even get parts for our 80 year old cars.

As often happens within these threads, the initial point is lost as many go off into varying directions that have (or do not have) anything to do with the original post.
What something costs, how much we are willing to pay, whether or not the part(s) would be available otherwise is NOT the issue here! The bottom line remains, "GIVE ME WHAT I PAID FOR". In other words what was advertised to be. If the ad says "fits perfect", perfect copy" etc. than that's certainly what I expect to receive.
This all comes down to business ethics or the lack thereof. I too have a list of who I won't purchase from. Many can guess who is on top of that list. To me, no part is worth acquiring if I must deal with a person or company that lacks ethics.

[52merc]

kube well said

[al pa.]

Count me as unsatisfied,(remember the choke and throttle cable closeout?)

[Craig CT]

Hi Mr. Drake; I suggest that in the future, if you need to contact an individaul, use the PM or email feature provided on this site. Craig.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by FL&WVMIKE

LAWSON COX ..........................
When he first went into business, and made his own parts, he had a First Class reputation ! I'm sure that we all remember that !
After he started having all his parts made in China, the quality suffered badly. Anyone who called him on that, was told that their complaint was the first they had ever heard and treated them like they did not know what they were talking about.
Another thing, when he started having his running boards made in China, for a fraction of the cost of USA made boards, is when he raised his prices.
How can you treat people like that and not expect some repercussions ?
MIKE

I'm with you on this. I've seen first hand guys at Hershey complain about lets say in this case the '40 repo gas tank.

When trying to install, the entire body had to lifted off in order to get the repo to fit. The guy who bought the part was talking to one of the sales reps, his response was, yeah we know it was a problem, we aren't go to fix it until we sell out of the old ones.

Stock ones go in and out with having to do that to the body.

As much as I appreciate Bob's dedication to the hobby and helping folks find parts for their cars, that response just flat out pissed me off.

Same goes with my friend who still has his new in the box '39 head light rings and lenses. The lenses were too thick and the rings just looked like, well Chinese-made garbage.

Or the repo hub caps that are just a hair too thin and come off because they don't grip the nubs as tightly as NOS.

I just wish Bob Drake would slow things down a bit and do a little more trial and error before trying to pass off parts as good as the originals.

I also agree that this should have been done off the "air".

Now, if he says I'm going to try to bring back some of the manufacturing to the US and actually listen to the complaints of my customers than I'm on board.

[Charlie ny]

Bob,
Remember, it isn't slander if it's true.
Most everything I've purchased from Bob Drake has been pretty
acceptable.....My last $1000 plus order had some hickups as your records
will show.....Your guy and I wrestled the problems thru to my 92% satis-
faction. I chose to keep this between Bob Drake and moi until your post.
LC is a friend to me and most here. Having said all this....I'll continue to
be a continuing Bob Drake customer.
Charlie ny
Charles Schwendler
[email protected]

[Cob]

Originally Posted by 296 V8

Because metal shapes is powerless here to force his opinion on us.
(I’m sure Ryan would disagree )

No opinion forced - just closed