The Ford Barn

RandyMettler · 01-22-2019, 01:20 PM

Thanks,

Flatjack9,
I am at sea level and do have 50s I could put in in the future once I road test it.

Tubman,
The choke plate is in place just not hooked up to the primary carbs choke. It basically just stays open as far as I can tell. I should have been more exact in my description.

Ol'Ron,
I have a mallory breakers less electronic with advance weights controlled by springs and adjusted with an interchangeable bushing. In my case it only came with one set of springs and one bushing installed. It is a crab style and mounted to the front center camshaft. I took the distributor apart and cleaned all the contact surfaces. And again I have an 8BA block. Its not the loadomatic vacuum advance control distributor that was designed for the 8BA. My dual 94 also do not have the combined venture and port vacuum option.

Another note,
I also noticed I have one stripped blot in the main body in the larger nozzle bar clamp securing the nozzle bars down. I will try to re thread to one bolt size bigger to do a band aid fix. I still need to see if there is enough meat in the main body to do this. The stripped bolt is in the primary with the choke hooked up. The 94 that has very little suction sound.

Regards

flatjack9 · 01-22-2019, 01:27 PM

I surely would go with the 50's if not 51's. If that nozzle bar does not seal to the body, you will not get proper fuel flow.

RandyMettler · 02-07-2019, 03:50 PM

I have since ordered, received and installed one of CharlieNYs fuel pumps and took Bubbas Ignitions advice and ordered and received a Deluxe Carburetor Airflow Meter. When testing my dual 94 setup on Olfenhauser intake on my 8BA, the primary carb registered 11 kg/h while the secondary non choke 94 read pegged at what I am guessing is well above the 30 kg/h mark. The secondary is also the carb that is audibly sucking in air much more than the primary. Also when the engine was turned off with the air cleaners removed, the secondary 94 had a mist of vaporized gas swirling in the air horn assembly.

The Deluxe Carburetor Airflow Meter has two holes at the base, see pictures. I am not sure if they need to be plugged when testing? The optional rubber boot plugs these holes when installed, but is not compatible with the 94s airhorn. When rubber boot is not installed they are left open, which is confusing to me. I am not really sure what the plastic baskets for. There were no instructions with the unit. I didn't find youtube videos explaining this.

The engine stumbles and backfires out of the exhaust when throttle is applied.

Regards

Ronnieroadster · 02-07-2019, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyMettler

I have since ordered, received and installed one of CharlieNYs fuel pumps and took Bubbas Ignitions advice and ordered and received a Deluxe Carburetor Airflow Meter. When testing my dual 94 setup on Olfenhauser intake on my 8BA, the primary carb registered 11 kg/h while the secondary non choke 94 read pegged at what I am guessing is well above the 30 kg/h mark. The secondary is also the carb that is audibly sucking in air much more than the primary. Also when the engine was turned off with the air cleaners removed, the secondary 94 had a mist of vaporized gas swirling in the air horn assembly.

The Deluxe Carburetor Airflow Meter has two holes at the base, see pictures. I am not sure if they need to be plugged when testing? The optional rubber boot plugs these holes when installed, but is not compatible with the 94s airhorn. When rubber boot is not installed they are left open, which is confusing to me. I am not really sure what the plastic baskets for. There were no instructions with the unit. I didn't find youtube videos explaining this.

The engine stumbles and backfires out of the exhaust when throttle is applied.

Regards

Your two carbies are not working together one is pulling lots more air than the other to get this correct both carbs need to pull identical air thats what the gauge your using is showing you. To correct your problem you need to adjust each throttle plate so both carbs are giving you similar readings. The carb with the high reading is pulling lots more air that carbs throttle plate needs to be moved so the air flow reading comes down on the gauge which you wrote is pegged until you get that reading lower your not going to be able to adjust the second carb. Once you have this accomplished the two carbs will now work as one. In other words your carbs need to work in unisyn.

LQQKER · 02-08-2019, 11:31 AM

I struggled with my dual 94s on a 59ab for months taking apart, adjusting, etc... very similar problem. I concluded worn throttle shaft. Sent Charlie NY the carbs, he fixed carbs including throttle shafts...problem solved. Good luck.

Ol' Ron · 02-08-2019, 11:44 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Actually two 94's work quite well on a stock Flathead, when properly set up. In JWL;s boof "Flathead facts" he goes through a procession of intakes and carburetors. With Dyno results of each item. Well worth the price of the book. Now you'll get the "facts on your options, some better than others.

RandyMettler · 02-08-2019, 01:28 PM

First of all, thanks to all of you who have given your time and advise. I really appreciate that.

In regards to LQQKER's previous post:
"I struggled with my dual 94s on a 59ab for months taking apart, adjusting, etc... very similar problem. I concluded worn throttle shaft. Sent Charlie NY the carbs, he fixed carbs including throttle shafts...problem solved. Good luck."

When I have difficulty getting the car to fire up, I have noticed gas leaking from the throttle shafts on both 94 carbs. The gas is not visible once the car is started. I am guessing because of the vacuum created by the pistons and the heat from the engine. My question is, are the gas leaks an indication of worn throttle shafts? Can simply purchasing new shafts stop the leaks?

One of the 94s is a Chandler Groves. Do the bodies of the carbs also wear with time? If so, the reason I ask, do companies such as Vintage Speed and Charlie NY make larger throttle shafts that require specific size drill bits to "freshen up" the carbs worn out bodies?

Charlie ny · 02-08-2019, 07:44 PM

Randy,
.005 over size shafts are available from Speedway. To fit one of these
shaft right you should use a LINE REAMER. Unless you are really lucky a drill bit won't
do the job, you will get an egg shaped hole. A reamer provides the best opportunity for a round and straight series of holes.....remember the shaft hole is actually three holes. One hole on the drivers side of the base , one in the middle and one on the passenger side.......all must be round and in line. These carbs are pretty basic but usually when they give a guy trouble are not always simple to diagnose and repair.
Charlie

Tinker · 02-08-2019, 07:51 PM

Chandler Groves is a first yr and one yr carb, thinking best for a 38 restorer. Design was taken over by Holley due to manufacturing short commings by Chandler Groves. (or so it goes)

.

ford38v8 · 02-08-2019, 08:35 PM

Tinker, it was another example of Henry Ford's sharp business practices, contracting with CG in such a way as to guarantee failure and Ford ownership of the patent. The old man always got the upper hand in his contracts.

The CG logo appeared on the '38 carb with no model number, and continued into '39 model year with the 91-99 model number etched onto the CG molds, and manufactured by Holley. New molds with Ford script came in mid year. I believe the failure to deliver was a deliberate built in confusion of model year vs calendar year in the contracts.

Tinker · 02-08-2019, 08:49 PM

Alan, I knew as much (or little) that Chandler Groves was contracted to design and manufacture for a year, but also giving Ford rights to take the design, after the first year if numbers couldn't be met.

Sounds about right though.

Bill Gates was also a very lawyer savoy business man also.
When windows came out he contracted HP "that every computer they made, they would pay a price"". At the time that made sense, since windows was what everyone wanted. Once Linux was requested by consumers, HP started putting linux on them. But still had to pay Bill (microsoft) for every computer sold, due to contract.

Always nice to have a few lawyers in pocket I guess.

Charlie probably could get you straighten out, one way are the other. Advice/parts or service.

Bill OH · 02-08-2019, 11:01 PM

When I set up my Strombergs 97s (I have used Holleys), I first check that the throttle plates are closed with the idle screw backed off. I then measure the throttle shafts center to center on the drivers side with the carbs installed on the manifold. Using a pair of dividers or a ruler, I set the center to center distance on the arms that the linkage on the drivers side mount to and set the connecting linkage to the same center to center distance. The linkage should go together without further adjustment. I then set the idle stops on both carbs. The linkage from the firewall goes to the front carb. Start the engine and adjust both carbs for idle mixture followed by the throttle stop screws - make sure the throttle stops hit at the same time. I have had good success with this procedure.

RandyMettler · 02-08-2019, 11:04 PM

It may sound silly or nostalgic, even though ford ripped off Chandler Groves, but I am proud to have one Chandler Groves 94. It came with the purchase of my ford. I wish I had a matching set.

Charley NY,
Please email me at [email protected] to discuss sending you my 94's to be rebuilt properly. I get that simply taking a drill bit to the carbs could make things worse.

Regards

Tinker · 02-08-2019, 11:08 PM

Randy if you want a match pair of chandlers I can send ya the match one to yours. or drop ship it to Charlie. PM me if you're interested.

RandyMettler · 02-08-2019, 11:19 PM

Please email me at [email protected] to discuss condition and price of your Candler Groves 94.

Regards

I am old school, don't know what "PM" is

Tinker · 02-08-2019, 11:24 PM

Will do Randy. I'll go out tomorrow and send you some pictures of my chandlers. See if you can match them up.

If that's the direction you want to go.

Charlie ny · 02-09-2019, 12:10 AM

Randy and Tinker......
However you guys work things out is fine with me for sure. I will mention here I have an unlimited supply of 94's many many are Chandler Groves including some discussed here. I can happily match yours N/C. If we do end up doing business just be sure you send me both your carbs......ck your emails

Charlie ny
[email protected]

01-22-2019, 01:20 PM	#21
RandyMettler Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 128	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much Thanks, Flatjack9, I am at sea level and do have 50s I could put in in the future once I road test it. Tubman, The choke plate is in place just not hooked up to the primary carbs choke. It basically just stays open as far as I can tell. I should have been more exact in my description. Ol'Ron, I have a mallory breakers less electronic with advance weights controlled by springs and adjusted with an interchangeable bushing. In my case it only came with one set of springs and one bushing installed. It is a crab style and mounted to the front center camshaft. I took the distributor apart and cleaned all the contact surfaces. And again I have an 8BA block. Its not the loadomatic vacuum advance control distributor that was designed for the 8BA. My dual 94 also do not have the combined venture and port vacuum option. Another note, I also noticed I have one stripped blot in the main body in the larger nozzle bar clamp securing the nozzle bars down. I will try to re thread to one bolt size bigger to do a band aid fix. I still need to see if there is enough meat in the main body to do this. The stripped bolt is in the primary with the choke hooked up. The 94 that has very little suction sound. Regards Last edited by RandyMettler; 01-22-2019 at 01:55 PM.

01-22-2019, 01:27 PM	#22
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,527	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much I surely would go with the 50's if not 51's. If that nozzle bar does not seal to the body, you will not get proper fuel flow.

02-08-2019, 11:31 AM	#25
LQQKER Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sarasota Fl area Posts: 86	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much I struggled with my dual 94s on a 59ab for months taking apart, adjusting, etc... very similar problem. I concluded worn throttle shaft. Sent Charlie NY the carbs, he fixed carbs including throttle shafts...problem solved. Good luck.

02-08-2019, 11:44 AM	#26
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,860	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Actually two 94's work quite well on a stock Flathead, when properly set up. In JWL;s boof "Flathead facts" he goes through a procession of intakes and carburetors. With Dyno results of each item. Well worth the price of the book. Now you'll get the "facts on your options, some better than others.

02-08-2019, 01:28 PM	#27
RandyMettler Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 128	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much First of all, thanks to all of you who have given your time and advise. I really appreciate that. In regards to LQQKER's previous post: "I struggled with my dual 94s on a 59ab for months taking apart, adjusting, etc... very similar problem. I concluded worn throttle shaft. Sent Charlie NY the carbs, he fixed carbs including throttle shafts...problem solved. Good luck." When I have difficulty getting the car to fire up, I have noticed gas leaking from the throttle shafts on both 94 carbs. The gas is not visible once the car is started. I am guessing because of the vacuum created by the pistons and the heat from the engine. My question is, are the gas leaks an indication of worn throttle shafts? Can simply purchasing new shafts stop the leaks? One of the 94s is a Chandler Groves. Do the bodies of the carbs also wear with time? If so, the reason I ask, do companies such as Vintage Speed and Charlie NY make larger throttle shafts that require specific size drill bits to "freshen up" the carbs worn out bodies? Last edited by RandyMettler; 02-08-2019 at 01:34 PM.

02-08-2019, 07:44 PM	#28
Charlie ny BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,019	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much Randy, .005 over size shafts are available from Speedway. To fit one of these shaft right you should use a LINE REAMER. Unless you are really lucky a drill bit won't do the job, you will get an egg shaped hole. A reamer provides the best opportunity for a round and straight series of holes.....remember the shaft hole is actually three holes. One hole on the drivers side of the base , one in the middle and one on the passenger side.......all must be round and in line. These carbs are pretty basic but usually when they give a guy trouble are not always simple to diagnose and repair. Charlie

02-08-2019, 07:51 PM	#29
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much Chandler Groves is a first yr and one yr carb, thinking best for a 38 restorer. Design was taken over by Holley due to manufacturing short commings by Chandler Groves. (or so it goes) . Last edited by Tinker; 02-08-2019 at 08:01 PM.

02-08-2019, 08:35 PM	#30
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,645	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much Tinker, it was another example of Henry Ford's sharp business practices, contracting with CG in such a way as to guarantee failure and Ford ownership of the patent. The old man always got the upper hand in his contracts. The CG logo appeared on the '38 carb with no model number, and continued into '39 model year with the 91-99 model number etched onto the CG molds, and manufactured by Holley. New molds with Ford script came in mid year. I believe the failure to deliver was a deliberate built in confusion of model year vs calendar year in the contracts. __________________ Alan

02-08-2019, 08:49 PM	#31
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much Alan, I knew as much (or little) that Chandler Groves was contracted to design and manufacture for a year, but also giving Ford rights to take the design, after the first year if numbers couldn't be met. Sounds about right though. Bill Gates was also a very lawyer savoy business man also. When windows came out he contracted HP "that every computer they made, they would pay a price"". At the time that made sense, since windows was what everyone wanted. Once Linux was requested by consumers, HP started putting linux on them. But still had to pay Bill (microsoft) for every computer sold, due to contract. Always nice to have a few lawyers in pocket I guess. Charlie probably could get you straighten out, one way are the other. Advice/parts or service. Last edited by Tinker; 02-08-2019 at 10:31 PM.

02-08-2019, 11:01 PM	#32
Bill OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 426	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much When I set up my Strombergs 97s (I have used Holleys), I first check that the throttle plates are closed with the idle screw backed off. I then measure the throttle shafts center to center on the drivers side with the carbs installed on the manifold. Using a pair of dividers or a ruler, I set the center to center distance on the arms that the linkage on the drivers side mount to and set the connecting linkage to the same center to center distance. The linkage should go together without further adjustment. I then set the idle stops on both carbs. The linkage from the firewall goes to the front carb. Start the engine and adjust both carbs for idle mixture followed by the throttle stop screws - make sure the throttle stops hit at the same time. I have had good success with this procedure.

02-08-2019, 11:04 PM	#33
RandyMettler Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 128	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much It may sound silly or nostalgic, even though ford ripped off Chandler Groves, but I am proud to have one Chandler Groves 94. It came with the purchase of my ford. I wish I had a matching set. Charley NY, Please email me at [email protected] to discuss sending you my 94's to be rebuilt properly. I get that simply taking a drill bit to the carbs could make things worse. Regards Last edited by RandyMettler; 02-08-2019 at 11:15 PM.

02-08-2019, 11:08 PM	#34
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much Randy if you want a match pair of chandlers I can send ya the match one to yours. or drop ship it to Charlie. PM me if you're interested.

02-08-2019, 11:19 PM	#35
RandyMettler Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 128	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much Please email me at [email protected] to discuss condition and price of your Candler Groves 94. Regards I am old school, don't know what "PM" is Last edited by RandyMettler; 02-08-2019 at 11:30 PM.

02-08-2019, 11:24 PM	#36
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much Will do Randy. I'll go out tomorrow and send you some pictures of my chandlers. See if you can match them up. If that's the direction you want to go. Last edited by Tinker; 02-08-2019 at 11:35 PM.

02-09-2019, 12:10 AM	#37
Charlie ny BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,019	Re: Dual 94s one really sucks, one not so much Randy and Tinker...... However you guys work things out is fine with me for sure. I will mention here I have an unlimited supply of 94's many many are Chandler Groves including some discussed here. I can happily match yours N/C. If we do end up doing business just be sure you send me both your carbs......ck your emails Charlie ny [email protected]