Leatherback '28-'29 Group

[Bill Goddard]

I decided to start a new group because we Leatherback owners have some unique restoration problems. Mine is a '29 - I think! It has a 2-6-29 firewall stamp and a motor number 1,08x,xxx which puts it in Feb 29 production, and my frame and motor number matchs. The interior was severely deteriorated but original. When I removed the tacks and nails there were no other holes. This will be its first restoration. It has rear seat arm rests at the side walls. This is supposed to be a '28 feature. The rest of the upholstery is 1929. The car has been painted all black in the past but there are several places where Andalusite Blue is evident. These are in places where only the factory would have painted like the windshield frame and overspray of wood frame parts.
Well - that's an introduction to my project. I hope others can contribute to this thread and we can all benifit from the exchange.

[Rich in Tucson]

Your 60-B looks good Bill, I have a mostly disassembled 60-A that I am slowly working on and I know of at least 4 other '28-29s in my area. There is much not documented about these so hopefully we can fill in some blanks

[Ray A from PA]

Bill great looking Leatherback. I just finished the final touches to mine and
really enjoy it. It was a major task requiring a complete restoration including all new wood. Many of the roof part were missing when I started, it sure was fun.

[montanajohn]

Bill - Glad to see this special group formed. I have a 1929 60-C blindback awaiting restoration. I imaging that, except for he top material, everything else would be the same as on a leatherback. I'm sure that lots of questions will emerge as I start to work on it. Right now, I'm tied up getting my '31 coupe roadworthy.

[HDowse]

Bill - A good idea to pull the Leatherbacks together in a group. Mine is a New Hampshire car, bought by the previous owner from the original purchaser in 1953. The car chassis was restored in 1995 and painted Brewster Green. The top was changed in 1953, seat covers put on but the rest of the car is original inside. I've had the car four years. It's got 10-12-28 on the firewall.

[Steve Ciccalone]

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I have an unrestored 10/28 60-A with 14,000 original miles. I don't have any photos of it in the computer to post right right now. If anyone has any questions about particulars I would be happy to answer them.

[Rowdy]

Ray, That looks real nice compared to the parts we sent you. Glad to see you got it all together. We still have some sheetmetal left from the two we drug home. Sold some of it at Chichashae, but not all of it. Going to forward pic's of this one to Dad as he busted his butt on those parts, so some eye candy will be good. Rod

[Rich in Tucson]

Hello Steve, a few questions off of the top of my head 1) if you know and if they are there - what is the time interval between firewall date and frame/engine# production date? 2) has it a cowl vent? 3) Has it an MD clutch? 4) Has it any assembly plant code and if so where is it located?

Thanks and take care!

[Rene R]

I'd be happy to bring my 1928 60A into the group but I don't know how much help I could be, it was already restored when I bought it. But from everything I've seen and read it appears to be an extremely accurate restoration of a very solid original. I bought it out of Oklahoma but there's some indication it had been in Nebraska before that.

It's a late 1928, motor number A7114XX, with no date on the firewall and no cowl vents.

There's an excellent article in the Nov/Dec 1978 issue of The Restorer with detailed pictures of the interior of an unrestored 60A.

Meanwhile, here's a contemporary snapshot from Wellington, Kansas which I bought off of eBay, found in an old album:

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Does this include leatherback coupes? I have a 29 Special. Just kidding guys, I know you probably mean Fordors.

[Bill Goddard]

My Leatherback is a Briggs body and the cowl light reenforment brackets are in place, std from the factory. They are part of the gas tank support system. The raised bosses in the support bracks are obvious where the cowl lights should be mounted. I have seen only one other leatherback and the brackets are the same. From this I assume cowl lights were a possibility as a dealer installed option or aftermarket because the factory did not install them this early in the run. The problem is I have never seen this car with cowl lights. Has anyone else?

[Bill Goddard]

I did mean Fordors only because of the excessive amount of wood in the structure and the limited information out there - and I had forgotten about the coup. I also don't know if the body is done Briggs style - wood sheathed in steel - or if it is mostly a steel structure like the standard coup. You would be able to help me there. Your car had a shorter run and probably much lesser numbers made so it should be very valuable.

[Steve Ciccalone]

Rich, no cowl vent, the gas tank is 10/18/28, October engine w/multiple disc. No assembly plant code. I think when Briggs built the bodies, they may have not been stamped. I have a 1930 Briggs 5 window that also does not have a body code.

[Freddie (Memphis)]

Can I jump in this group...? We own a '29 Briggs Leatherback (60B). It's a very amateur restoration...mostly cobbled up. But, Jippy runs well and drives nicely. One day - probably when I retire - we'll do a complete restoration; at least that's my plan. Until then, Jippy Car is a family favorite!

I've done some work to her...12v conversion, new wiring harness, rebuilt the carb, FS ignition. I have new drums and hubs, need to rebuild the brakes this year. She needs a new top....interior...paint...you name it...but, we love her as she is. She seems happiest when full of family rolling down the road...."making haste, slowly"...

[Freddie (Memphis)]

Would you like me to initiate a new group on Ford Barn? There's a section for creating new groups, and it's fairly easy to do and maintain.

If you're interested...drop a line here and let me know. I'll be glad to get it started for us...

Thanks...

[Bill Goddard]

Freddie,
There is already a steelback 60C group I discovered a few minutes ago. That should work for the whole family of 60A, 60B and 60C. I am not sure how we know there has been a new post to the group when we log in to the forum.

[Freddie (Memphis)]

Bill...I joined the 60-C group just now and posted a message over in their section to see what responses I may get. Looks like a small group...let's see how we grow.

Nice day here in the Memphis area...might take Jippy Car for a spin to pick up the kids at school this afternoon. They love riding in the ol' girl, and they REALLY like me to pick them up at school. Seems it differentiates them from the rest of the herd...

[Aerocraft]

One of our local Joliet Region MARC members, Russ Knaack, has done a lot of research on the 60 series cars and has a data base of body and serial numbers. I'll advise him of this group posting.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Originally Posted by Bill Goddard

I did mean Fordors only because of the excessive amount of wood in the structure and the limited information out there - and I had forgotten about the coup. I also don't know if the body is done Briggs style - wood sheathed in steel - or if it is mostly a steel structure like the standard coup. You would be able to help me there. Your car had a shorter run and probably much lesser numbers made so it should be very valuable.

The Special coupe had a lot of wood from the door tops up. They were built by Ford from mid 28 through mid 29. Mine is an early June 29.

[Freddie (Memphis)]

Hey, Aerocraft...is that a Pietenpol Air Camper in your avatar...? Nice...

We love old airplanes, too. Nothing prettier than a ragwing biplane rising up off a grass strip and climbing into the sunset...love it...! I like the sound of radial engines, too. I've even got my 10-year old twins, Will and Drew, to where they recognize the sound of a radial engine and rush outside to look up when they hear one. I've taken them to Oshkosh...air ahows...we regularly go down to Olive Branch airport and sit on the bench outside one of the FBO's and just watch general aviation aircraft come and go. They love it as much as I do...

[Bill Goddard]

Aerocraft,
I'd like to see that database. See if he will let you post it.

[Steve Ciccalone]

A few photos of my unrestored 60-A. 14,358 miles. Rose beige/Seal brown. If anyone has detail questions let me know. I'll be happy to help.

[Bill Goddard]

Originally Posted by Steve Ciccalone

A few photos of my unrestored 60-A. 14,358 miles. Rose beige/Seal brown. If anyone has detail questions let me know. I'll be happy to help.

Unbelievable. If mine had looked thet good I'd be driving it today.I like the black wheels better than I thought I would with rose beige.

[Bill Goddard]

Steve, Could you post some pictures of the upper front corner of the windshield / front door post intersection showing the visor at the door post. And also the rear corner of the roof line showing the molding at the intersection of the roof and vertical back. All examples I have seen so far could have been "tampered with" over the years. Yours is the most likely to be as built from the factory. Thanks for showing a beautiful car.

[Aerocraft]

The Pietenpol is actually the prototye Model A powered "Scout" that I restored some 15 years ago. It is the single place version of the Pietenpol with a slightly shorter wingspan and a radiator mounted below the engine. It is now living somewhere in Australia. For more information on the Pietenpol Aircamper do a Google on "Brodhead Pietenpol Association." It is amazing how well the Model A engine powers the airplanes. I love 'em! Gar Williams

[Aerocraft]

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I have advised Russ Knnack of the qroup, it is his call if he responds, Gar

[Steve Ciccalone]

Bill, I'll have to take some shots tomorrow. In the meantime I'll tease you with some pin stripe close-ups.

[mickeyb]

I can't find the group.I want to join ..


mickeyb memphis

[Rowdy]

Click on the Community button under the header, that will bring down the dropdown, click on Social Groups. All of the groups are listed there. Rod

[asapguy]

Hello Freddie. I also have a 60B. It was restored in the mid 80's with the exception of the interior & only driven 100 miles before put back into dry storage. It was a 60K mile very solid car to begin with. All the orig wood is like new. The doors close with a gentle thud. What caught my eye on your car is the seam in the top material that runs in the upper roof 1/4 over to the drip moulding above the doors. Mine has the same seam & I didn't think that was an original seam. I helped install a L-B top on a 60A (tan top) about 5yrs ago & it didn't have that seam. My car was done by a doctor who did most of the work himself. I think he may have had trouble getting the top smooth in that area & cut the top at that point & added the seam. I have several model A's & have always stayed away from fordors because of the wood. The problem was all my otherA's only hold two people except the Cabriolet which has the rumble seat & I wanted to take friends & grandkids. This is why I got the fordor & I'm really enjoying the room. So what have you found out regarding that seam??? Thanks Perry, Snohomish Wa.

[Bill Goddard]

Steve, Those are great. I needed to see those details. I am getting close to having to make some decisions about final fitting and finishing. Can you identify for me the type of molding around the edge of the top material. Looking forward to the others. Thanks again Bill G

[Steve Ciccalone]

Some photos of the original top. The visor on this car has always been a point of discussion. My thinking is that the visor material failed and it was stripped and repainted black. If it was painted originally by Briggs, I would think it would have been upper body color.

The car was originally from Wyoming and it lived there until sometime in the 80's. The previous owner bought this car in Portland, OR in the early '90's.

[Bill Goddard]

Steve, Excellent pictures. Just what I wanted. Thanks Bill G

[Steve Ciccalone]

You're welcome Bill, anymore details let me know.

[Bill Goddard]

Steve,
looking through this old thread to see if you gave a firewall date. Found it. The body stamp on my leatherback ( 2-6-29) is nailed to the subfloor (heavy frame) on the passager side on the inside edge of the plank where it is beveled downward. Under the carpet. It is about 1/2" wide and 3" long. Raised letters about 1/4" high in thin sheet metal. Bill G

[shawnhorton2960B]

if this works heres some pics of minehttp://s242.photobucket.com/albums/ff48/2960b/

[Glenn C.]

We have two 60A's. One was built early in 1928 that has the cowl vent. (Restoration in progress). The other 60A was assembled 9-24-28.
One of the things we found interesting was that there was no pinstriping after August 28 according to the JS.

[Steve Ciccalone]

Rechecked the firewall stamping. It's 10/23/28 in lieu of the earlier posting.

[Scott NY]

Steve
I still think that your car would look great in my garage
Scott

[dp46]

Fellow Leatherback owners, New guy to this posting thing, but I need help. I recently purchased a 28 Leatherback and am refurbishing areas that need attention. The inside front windshield vertical garnish seems to be missing on the passenger side. I have driver's side garnish the windshield swing arm bracket mounts thru, but the passenger side has bracket only (no metal trim). Can someone post a picture of the proper detailing of this area and perhaps sources for this part. Thanks

[jrelliott]

I have a '28 Leatherback that I acquired about 10 years ago and have restored. Date on firewall is 9-11-28. MN title, frame and engine numbers matched, but after frame restoration, priming and painting the AZ inspector could not find the frame number for AZ title. Should have restamped the frame or put white paint on numbers before putting the body back on. When got the vehicle the wood was in excellent shape as there was no rotten parts anywhere.

[Bill Goddard]

The piece you want is not reproduced so you will have to have it made of find and original. It is the mirror image of the one on the other side. I am posting a picture of the area you are talking about. Both parts are identical except the scallop at the bottom end that fits around the dash metal cover. By the way - is the sheetmetal under the header down against the piece on the other side that you do have?

[Roadster62]

I know I can't join with my 60C project but thought I post this photo I won on eBay. Is the visor more rounded or are all the Letherback visors the same? Bob

[supergnat]

Hi dp46,
I also have a 28 Leatherback. It was manufactured in Oct 28. I think it is original with the exception of paint color. If you need any other photos please let me know. I plan to keep my as original as possible.
Rich

[6shots]

Hello Bill,
If you're forming a 60B group, I'd like to join. It's a really interesting car. Also, I have a few interesting problems I'm trying to overcome. Is there some way I can contact you outside of the forum for a longer conversation?

[TimM]

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Hello,

I just bought a 1929 Leatherback last month and I have a few questions to ask and have come up against a problem I need your help with.

First the questions:
1. When did the headliner light move? I have seen some with it above the driver's head and then some are like mine, with it over the back seat.

2. Mine is a 29 but it appears to have had rear seat side armrests...is this correct for that year? The interior was removed prior to my buying it, but it included what looks to be thin plywood with the side armrest attached to it. Should they have been in this car?

Now my problem...the front seat is non-movable. The metal tub has a bracket on each side which is bolted to the B-pillar and has a strip of wood between the edge of the tub and the pillar. But there is no seat bottom sides there anymore. That curved strip of either metal or wood that sits on either side of the seat cushion between it an the door. (interject the correct part name here!) In some of the pictures here that you all have posted, it is really hard to tell what it is made of, it's thickness or how it is attached. I have bought an upholstery kit, but not too certain about how to handle this issue. Help anyone!!!?

Thanks
Tim

[Dale G.]

If anyone is interested, I have a nice restorable windshield frame for a 60-A and a metal header cap with original paint on it.

[Buickcity]

I have a '' 28 '' leatherback. been setting for 25 years or more.Started restoring by getting new glass in the windshield frame (as all other glass was good) I then discovered rotten wood.I couldn't get engine to turn over!Took it apart,and discovered block was cracked! Does anyone know of a good machine shop in the Phoenix,AZ. area that is familar with the A ? I found a shop that can weld the block ( it is cracked on one cyl.-between cyl.& exh. valve ) Then I would have to have it sleeved!The welding would melt the babbit-so I would like to have the block machined for the reg.type main bearing inserts. Thanks for your help!!

[Bill Goddard]

TimM, My leatherback has side armrests with '28 interior. Firewall date is 2-6-29. Its the same old problem - Henry used up old parts and materials before using new stuff. I am putting mine back the way it came - with '28 interior. 1929 interior did not have armrests.
The seat is attached to door posts in this car which means seat can't move . If you are tall like me it is unsafe to drive the car - can't make fast movements to engage brakes or clutch. I took the filler pieces out of mine and bought a set of roller bearing seat sliders from Speedway Moters. It is a really neat conversion and is dirt cheap. If you are interested I can send you pictires and info on sliders.
I also have the bottom support piece you are missing in case you want to restore it the way it was. Bill G

I wil post pics tomorrow

[TimM]

Bill,

That would be great! I too am tall and any help would be wonderful. I am trying to "dry-fit" the seat springs to make assessment of just how tight it would be. Any pictures, information or suggestions you might have would be cheerfully accepted!

Thanks

Tim

[Rich in Tucson]

Hello Buickcity, please call Sammy Guthrie of Arizona Model A at (480) 782-0266 (Tuesday-Friday). He can supply a block and advise you on engine rebuilders in the Phoenix, AZ area. Visit him in Chandler at 15838 S. Gilbert Rd. If you get there before noon a friendly crew, often with visitors from across the globe, is always ready to go to lunch at a local eatery.

[Bill Goddard]

6shots, Sorry it took me so long. Haven't been watching this thread for long time. Contact me by email from my profile on this site. Bill G

[Buickcity]

Thanks ,Ill call him!

[david801]

I am getting close to the point where I need to decide what color to paint my Leatherback. The top completely missing so I dont know if it was a 60 A or B but I like the black top more so I will go with that. I have a Paint and Finish Guide but cant tell from those tiny paint chips what the car will really look like. Im not too stuck on just the 1928 or 1929 colors, just looking for something nice. Can you Leatherback guys share some pictures of your cars?

[Rowdy]

David I will have alook this weekend and see if we have any top pieces left. We still have a good pile of 60-B sheetmetal and body parts including a rear splash pan. Rod

[jrelliott]

Would be glad to join this group. Got quite an education restoring my '28 Briggs body as did a lot of the work myself and hired out the machine work, paint and shock rebuild. There were very few of these models around the areas where did the restoration, Rochester, MN and Pine, AZ. These vehicles are truely georgeous when restored to original. They are not quite as desirable as the roadsters and pick ups, but they offer a lot more room and ride great.

[Russ]

I realize it is long after the fact, but my name was mentioned earlier in this post (I was chasing three small children around the house at the time and somehow missed this). Yes - I have been collecting data for a number of years on 60-A, 60-B, & 60-C Fordors in order to determine production quantities and dates. The key to my study is the information on the body serial number on the Briggs Body Tag, usually located on the wooden cross-rail or side-rail under the floorboard on the front passenger's side. In addition to this information, it is important to cross-reference it with the firewall date (stamped on lower driver's side firewall on gas tank) and frame/engine number. I also like to note the condition of the car (original /restored) to help understand possible discrepancies in the data. I plan on publishing this data in the MAFCA/MARC magazines at some point. If anyone finds this and is interested, please feel free to contact me.

[supergnat]

Hi Russ, I have a nearly original 28 Leatherback. You can checkout my photos. I have attached a photo of the body tag in this email. The tank date is 2 Oct 28. The car is mostly original except for the paint and added seatbelts. Let me know if you need anything specific. I have never had the body off so I cannot check the frame serial number. I do have the original bill of sale which matches my engine number so I suspect this is the original engine.
Supergnat

[jrelliott]

I can post a picture as have a '28 Leatherback with all the hardware in that area. Just send me your email address. My email is [email protected]. My '28 has a date of 9-11-28.

[dean from bozeman]

Leatherback folks,

I will be selling my older restoration '29 Leatherback in the near future but this reply is about your thread.

As I was reading through the thread I didn't realize how "old" the thread was. So when I came across replies from my deceased buddy Steve Ciccalone, I was taken back. He sent some beautiful photos of the '28 Leatherback that he used to own. I, too, have many photos of that car. If folks are interested I could send them to some "group historian". Just let me know how I can/could help.

Dean
[email protected]

[jm29henry]

Looking forward to sharing info on our Briggs four doors,my car is a 60 B it has a build date of Dec 8th 1928 ii is Andalusite blue it is a 42 year old restroration I really love the way she drives and her simple but formal look

[stephenreyes]

Mine is also Andalusite blue but with a lighter blue accent that I believe was put in the wrong places. I am now researching the correct paint scheme.

[stephenreyes]

I did not see that a group was ever created so I created one in the Community section of the forums called "Leatherback." Hope all you Leatherback owners join and share!

[jm29henry]

Stephenreyes ,I will sign up now !!!!

[Russ]

Thanks for the info on your 60-A Supergnat. Somehow, I already had your car in my database with contact info. Perhaps it was from the previous owner or perhaps the info was from you.

[csasoongner]

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[ms500]

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[Colby Kid]

I'm a pretty new member, and don't know my way around this system. I have a '28 Fordor, mfg in Jun '28, w/drivers side cowl vent, and "military" visor. Don't yet know how to post a pix, but I'll learn.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Colby Kid

I'm a pretty new member, and don't know my way around this system. I have a '28 Fordor, mfg in Jun '28, w/drivers side cowl vent, and "military" visor. Don't yet know how to post a pix, but I'll learn.

If you don't see the "Mange Attachments" box below the red line, then click on "Go Advanced", and it should show up. Click on "Manage Attachments", and a "Browse" box will appear. Click on that to find the picture in your computer, then upload it. I shoot my pictures in medium quality JPEG, so they post here without having to find some way to downsize them.

[Franchise_24]

Thanks for the group. I will join up. We love our leatherback. I took the whilewalls off and it is all black and looks awsome.

[Russ]

Here is some information from my database on 60-A, -B, and -C production that I recently put in another post:

The earliest A in my database is 190-22, with a firewall date of 5/10/1928. The latest A in my database has a firewall date of 12/8/1928 and a frame/engine number dating to 12/11/28. Unfortunately, the Briggs tag was missing on this car, but another late 60-A with a firewall date of 11/16/28 has a Briggs body number of 190-68853.

The earliest 60-B in my database is 190-99775 with a firewall date of 1/4/1929 (it's possible this could actually be a 60-A). The latest 60-B I have on record is 190-151957 with a firewall date of 4/8/1929.

The earliest 60-C in my database is 195-812 with a firewall date of 2/12/1929. The latest 60-C in my database is 195-17608 with a firewall date of 7/17/1929. This shows that production of the 60-B and 60-C did overlap.

Along the way, I have also stumbled upon a few 170-A's. These cars used a prefix of "197". The earliest car has a firewall date of 8/7/29 (no other numbers) and the latest has a Briggs body number of 197-6337 with a frame/engine number dating to 10/10/1929. It seems less likely that production of the 60-C and 170-A overlapped.

My e-mail address is [email protected].

Regards,
Russ

[Todd Sgamba]

I have a leatherback that my great uncle purchased from the original owner in 1941. When I got the car from my uncle in 1976, it had a chocolate brown top on it. It still has the original interior with rear seat side armrests. It was the same top and upholstery that was on the car when my uncle bought it in 1941. The original owner bought the car in 1929 in Willows, Ca. and had dual sidemounts and cowl lights installed by the dealer. The date on the firewall is 4-17-29. The engine and frame have matching numbers- 1410947 (4-19-1929). I have always assumed it was a 60A. I have been told the 60A was not made that late into 1929. I read above that even the latest date you have for the 60B is 4-8-29. This car is definitely a 60A or 60B. I have replaced nearly ALL of the body wood so I know it's not a 170A. Unfortunately, I do not have the original Briggs body tag. I found out from my cousin that when his dad bought the car, it was missing the tag so they assigned it a new ID number. The car sat in storage for about 25 years and I started a full restoration about 2 years ago. Any thoughts or suggestions. I want to restore this as authentically as possible. THANKS, Todd

[Todd Sgamba]

Is this group still active? I hope so. Thanks!

[Chuck Dempsey]

To borrow a movie tagline - 'Post it, and they will come.....'

[Todd Sgamba]

Thanks!

[mtnichols]

I have a Dec 28 60B that I've been working on for about 5 year. Should have been junked looking back. All of the wood needed replaced and that was a very expensive and painful process. I'm almost ready to start the interior. I have matching numbers (A732913) on the frame and engine, multi-disc clutch, no cowel vent or lights.


Here are some picks of before and after:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pfhqhazkm...rhiv9L0pa?dl=0

[Chuck Dempsey]

My Goodness! You did have your work cut out for you. Those 'before' pics are scary..... Good luck!

[Flop]

My new to me leather back . Have put 275 miles on it since I got it last month .

Well it won’t let me upload pics I’ll
Try again later

[Todd Sgamba]

Beautiful car, this body style is a very elegant looking work of art! Nice job mtnichols!

[Fdohnke]

Wow, what a save. Just about cried when I saw what you started with. Great work!

[supergnat]

Amazing job. Thanks for sharing.

[Russ]

Thought I would jump start this post again. I am working with Steve Plucker on an upcoming (early 2021) article for The Restorer (MAFCA) magazine on the 60-A/B/C Fordors. If you own one and haven't done so already, I would really appreciate it if you could post or send me your Briggs body tag # and firewall date (see attached photos for location) so I can fill in the "production curves" that I have been building for the past 15+ years. The engine # would be helpful too, if possible. This will finally give some insight into how many of the 60-A/B/C's were made and during what time period. The "production curves" (but not individual data) will be published in the article. Thanks again for your support.

[Lightman7]

Being a little vague on purpose, but I'll reveal all soon I hope. Did and 28 features carry over into early 29? I'm looking at a Fordor that has a 29 interior but also rear arm rests.

Thanks

[juke joint johnny]

My 60B has a May29 build date on the firewall and the rear armrests.
It is a USA built Car