Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-05-2016, 09:43 AM   #21
billybronco1
Senior Member
 
billybronco1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 316
Default Re: Car died will not start

Key off 6 volts both sides of the coil.
Key on points shorted six volts on neg side of coil and .65 on the pos side.
__________________
1931 Coupe
billybronco1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 09:58 AM   #22
Dick Steinkamp
Senior Member
 
Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 1,162
Default Re: Car died will not start

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybronco1 View Post
Key off 6 volts both sides of the coil.
Key on points shorted six volts on neg side of coil and .65 on the pos side.
If "key off" you have 6V on both sides of the coil, then either the ignition switch is bad and still making contact in the off position, in which case you would not be able to turn the car off with the key, OR (hopefully) your have a typo in your post and you really meant "Key ON 6 volts both sides of the coil".
__________________
All steel from pedal to wheel
Dick Steinkamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-05-2016, 10:21 AM   #23
billybronco1
Senior Member
 
billybronco1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 316
Default Re: Car died will not start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp View Post
If "key off" you have 6V on both sides of the coil, then either the ignition switch is bad and still making contact in the off position, in which case you would not be able to turn the car off with the key, OR (hopefully) your have a typo in your post and you really meant "Key ON 6 volts both sides of the coil".
Yep 6 volts on both sides of the coil with key off even the switch disconnected.
__________________
1931 Coupe
billybronco1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 10:23 AM   #24
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Car died will not start

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybronco1 View Post
Yep 6 volts on both sides of the coil with key off even the switch disconnected.
That's normal
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 10:38 AM   #25
billybronco1
Senior Member
 
billybronco1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 316
Default Re: Car died will not start

Okay guys something no one seemed to think of is a bad condenser - all fixed this was a good learning experience - thanks.
__________________
1931 Coupe
billybronco1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 12:38 PM   #26
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,460
Default Re: Car died will not start

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybronco1 View Post
Okay guys something no one seemed to think of is a bad condenser - all fixed this was a good learning experience - thanks.
Normally changing the condenser is the first thing mentioned.

I've never had a coil or condenser fail on my own cars, but those are two spare parts I carry under the seat, as well as a spare fan belt.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 01:11 PM   #27
cp5491r
Senior Member
 
cp5491r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Waukee, Iowa
Posts: 107
Default Re: Car died will not start

Same issue for me was a bad switch. It worked fine and then next time I tried to start it, the problem was traced back to a bad switch. Replace it and it was good to go.
cp5491r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 01:22 PM   #28
billybronco1
Senior Member
 
billybronco1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 316
Default Re: Car died will not start

Ya know I'm not 100% confident its only the condenser - came out after lunch it would not start again thought I burnt out the new condenser so I tried a random one off a boat motor and got spark back. Put the original one in and and no spark. Put the second one back and got spark again. Mean while I was shorting out the key switch, now it runs fine either way jumped key switch or use the key switch. Seems strange I could have a bad condenser and a flaky switch at the seem time, but weird things can happen. If it dies again I will first jump the ignition switch.
__________________
1931 Coupe
billybronco1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 01:38 PM   #29
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,460
Default Re: Car died will not start

Have you made sure all your connections are clean and tight?
Also a common problem area is the lower plate wire terminal on the points post. That terminal must be located correctly and bent up against the nut, or it can rub on the spring and ground out.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 02:00 PM   #30
billybronco1
Senior Member
 
billybronco1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 316
Default Re: Car died will not start

Everything is tight and clean best I can tell, not sure I follow you 100% on the point plate shorting out, all looks good to me.
__________________
1931 Coupe
billybronco1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 05:04 PM   #31
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,460
Default Re: Car died will not start

The bottom plate has a short multistrand very flexible wire with a flag terminal that is fastened to the bottom of the points pivot/mounting stud. You must tighten the nut then bend the flag terminal against the nut. If you don't bend the terminal up against the nut then it might stick out enough to touch the spring and short to ground.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 05:13 PM   #32
jthomas6
Senior Member
 
jthomas6's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: E Tn.
Posts: 160
Default Re: Car died will not start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
The bottom plate has a short multistrand very flexible wire with a flag terminal that is fastened to the bottom of the points pivot/mounting stud. You must tighten the nut then bend the flag terminal against the nut. If you don't bend the terminal up against the nut then it might stick out enough to touch the spring and short to ground.
And will drive you batty chasing the problem. Maybe when you move the spark advance a little - it's OK. Go to half advance - dead. Back off a little - OK. Go to 0 advance - dead. It all depends on just where in the circular advance cycle it chooses to short out - then maybe even vibration helps with more intermittent shorts.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you!
You don't need a parachute to skydive, you only need a parachute to skydive twice.
jthomas6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 08:44 PM   #33
Hook
Senior Member
 
Hook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Twin Cities Suburbs
Posts: 105
Default Re: Car died will not start

I just finished chasing something similar for about a year. don't want to bore you with the sad story, but I kept finding things wrong, assume I had found the problem but had not. Each fix made it slightly better, but didn't solve the overall problem.
So, are you using an aftermarket "look alike" pop out switch?
If it is not the original pop out type switch, what type of wire do you have going to the distributor? Mine was small metal sheath with wire in it that would screw in to the distributor.
Is the lower plate in the distributor original? Points original? Upper plate original? Wire from coil to distributor original?
Let me know and I'll share my experience with problems found in most. Mine now starts so quickly I can't believe it.
__________________
1930 Pickup in Prior Lake, MN
Hook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 09:02 PM   #34
billybronco1
Senior Member
 
billybronco1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 316
Default Re: Car died will not start

I would assume mine is a bunch of random parts from here and there I doubt much is original ford stock.
__________________
1931 Coupe
billybronco1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 09:22 PM   #35
saintjoelarry
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 19
Default Re: Car died will not start

Just now catching up on the forum, and saw your post. I think you've received very good advice ...although was also surprised that replacing the condenser was not the very first thing mentioned. Especially with the heat. You can even buy a heat shield to place below your distributor to protect the condenser from the heat.

Definitely check the wiring underneath the points plate. The wire itself could be frayed, as was the one on my 30 Model A. When I would advance the timing after it started, it would stall. Easy fix, simply remove the points cam nut, push down on the points plate (is held in place by spring tension, turn counterclockwise (or was it clockwise?) and the plate pops right out. Check the wire and the fitting at the end.

I also agree with whomever said coils rarely go bad. I get most of my old car advise from my 75 year old father, who was a farmer and grease monkey for much of his life. When I suggested I had a bad coil on my Model A, he said he rarely, if ever, had seen a coil go bad on a 6 volt car or tractor. Not that it can't, just that he couldn't recall seeing it in 60+ years of working on the things.

One more thing to add though is just the wiring in general. If your wiring has not been replaced, then the insulation is definitely flaking off. Go out and buy the replacement wiring from a place like Snyder's. They are cut to length, have correct ends, and correct cloth coating. It will save you a lot of trouble in the long run just to replace them now.
saintjoelarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2016, 09:40 AM   #36
mshmodela
Senior Member
 
mshmodela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,750
Default Re: Car died will not start



Don't get fooled, a volt meter from ground to the switch side of the coil should show 6V since the meter itself completes the circuit.
__________________
-Mike

Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy

I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A.

Cleveland, Ohio

Last edited by mshmodela; 07-06-2016 at 09:50 AM.
mshmodela is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2016, 10:23 AM   #37
Dick Steinkamp
Senior Member
 
Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 1,162
Default Re: Car died will not start

Quote:
Originally Posted by mshmodela View Post

Don't get fooled, a volt meter from ground to the switch side of the coil should show 6V since the meter itself completes the circuit.
Thanks, Mike!
__________________
All steel from pedal to wheel
Dick Steinkamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2016, 10:40 AM   #38
eagle
Senior Member
 
eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Eagle Bend, MN
Posts: 1,503
Default Re: Car died will not start

I'm not saying this to hurt any feeling just giving my input. I troubleshoot equipment for a living and have for almost 30 years. The WORST kind of repair is when someone just starts replacing parts without diagnosing the problem precisely first. Never ever replace a part until you have verified it is bad. Of course, every rule has an exception, sometimes when you have an intermittent issue that will not occur when you are able to diagnose, then some careful replacement of parts is necessary. However, very important to test the new part too. Assuming a part is good just because its new can REALLY get you in a pickle! Another thing that can get you into some deep waters... "I had a similar problem and did this and it fixed it" Just because a particular fix worked on his car usually will be a wild goose chase on yours. Get yourself a GOOD meter, a detailed wiring diagram, and figure it out. You will be much further ahead in the long run, and you will learn your system so next time around it will be easier. Just my two cents.
__________________
"There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."

Last edited by eagle; 07-06-2016 at 10:46 AM.
eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2016, 11:06 AM   #39
Marshall57
Senior Member
 
Marshall57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Elko Nevada
Posts: 217
Default Re: Car died will not start

I respect you ideas, but disagree. I think that changing out a distributer on a car for a known good one is the best way to start. I find that the search can range from gas to spark and everywhere in between, but most of the problems I find are in the distributer. I have a few that I have rebuilt and have run for a while that are known good. It has saved lots of time when I'm looking at a car and they are insisting that it is a carburetor, and I'm just as sure it isn't a fuel problem. If you change it out and the problem goes away, it will narrow your search for the problem, if it doesn't it will also let you concentrate on the others problems you might have.
I also do this with fuel. I hang a small tank on the radiator rods and bypass anything in the tank or fuel filter, or just bad gas. I also do this for the ignition, there is a bypass sold that is more of a factory hotwire, this takes the complete switch out of the equation.
Gremlins are sometimes hard to ferret out, and elimination of whole problem areas can be of great help when the symptoms are all over the place.

Strangest one lately was on the trip to Loveland an exhaust clamp came loose and the muffler fell. Tried to wire it up and pull off into a stop we were making when it fell. The car would not run. Bolted up the muffler loosely and it just barley ran. Got it tight and it ran fine.
Talked to folks at the meet, and had to face palm when I was told that the engine must be grounding through the muffler and the answer was a ground strap.

Last edited by Marshall57; 07-06-2016 at 11:09 AM. Reason: word out of place
Marshall57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2016, 11:20 AM   #40
Hook
Senior Member
 
Hook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Twin Cities Suburbs
Posts: 105
Default Re: Car died will not start

If you have one of these cables running into the distributor, check to make sure the wire inside the metal housing isn't shorted to ground. Mine was shorting in three different spots causing poor starting and intermittent shut down. I used an ohm meter to check it. The new ones are made better and won't cause the shorting over time.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg img_Large.asp.jpg (20.5 KB, 10 views)
__________________
1930 Pickup in Prior Lake, MN
Hook is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:26 PM.