School me on flatheads... Did I bite off more than I can chew?

[Bruce Lancaster]

On this...it's all about whether it has frozen and cracked or not. Once it hits the hot tank, it's no worse than any other block...its general nastiness now is only of concern during the teardown. If uncracked...many would consider a 99 to be the most desirable block for a rod.
Crank will most likely save if you can't afford stroking, rods may well save, pistons and valve gear would be on the replace list for almost any engine getting built.
If it is cracked in a way not worth repairing, you'll at least know how to tear down a flathead!

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Mart

Did you bite off more than you can chew?

Yes, probably.

Lets be honest. You were given a flathead. It is not in great condition. Although it is theoretically rebuildable it probably is not worth you rebuilding it, unless you have a vehicle ready and waiting for it.

It will be a valuable experience for you just getting good hands on time with that old lump.

Pull it apart. Work out what you have.

But then work out what you want.

It may be that just stashing all those parts will do for now. If the flathead bug has bit, you will stumble across other parts or a complete car, and that stash of parts will come in handy.

To be realistic, I would not advise an 18YO kid to start spending thousands of dollars fixing up an engine.

It's easy to spend other peoples money while tapping away on a keyboard, but in your first post you say you will benefit from just tearing it down, and I think you need to take that as a first step, and not really consider building it back into a running engine.

Just my opinion, other peoples opinion may vary.

Mart.

That pretty much sums it up... I originally posted this thread because I had gotten the engine for nothing and didn't know much about flatheads. I figured a few members would chime in if I got stumped, which they did and I am grateful for that. Now I am not trying to knock anyone who posted about hopping up the engine and building it but that just wasn't in my plans. I'm not even 100% sure the block is good. Rebuilding this thing like a race engine is not feasible for my wallet now nor will it be in the foreseeable future.

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

On this...it's all about whether it has frozen and cracked or not. Once it hits the hot tank, it's no worse than any other block...its general nastiness now is only of concern during the teardown. If uncracked...many would consider a 99 to be the most desirable block for a rod.
Crank will most likely save if you can't afford stroking, rods may well save, pistons and valve gear would be on the replace list for almost any engine getting built.
If it is cracked in a way not worth repairing, you'll at least know how to tear down a flathead!

Thats what I'm thinking, its a good way to learn. I am still very doubtful that the engine is cracked. If and when I do get it apart it will be cleaned and most likely stashed away somewhere until I can get the funds necessary for building right. Maybe I never will who knows!

I'm still tinkering with the caps and I'll update when I get the crank out

[Mike in AZ]

good attitude, FordMike....keep tearing it down and see what ya got....and whether you store it for later when funds allow you to go further or whatever you do, you have gained knowledge about the flatheads....and hopefully you have caught the flathead bug and will continue to have fun with them in the future...good luck....Mike

[Bruce Lancaster]

The ante is now waaaay up, too; I had thought it was an 81A, now it's a 99, the top of the heap hotrod starter. DEFINITELY worth careful disassembly and analysis.

[Tim Ayers]

Being this is a 99A block, I would seriously consider finding a 55 gallon barrel and having this motor take a long, nice de-rusting bath in either Kerosene or that molasass mixture. This is a block that is worth saving for sure

[flatjack9]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I would take it to a shop that does the bake and blast method of cleaning.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

I would take it to a shop that does the bake and blast method of cleaning.

I believe you need to strip it down to a bare block for this. The kerosene or molasass is to help loosen everything up.

I would also recommend 'Ol Ron's flathead juice in the meantime. Acetone & ATF. Works better than most over the counter stuff and it's a lot cheaper.

[FordMike]

FINALLY!!!

I managed to get all the rod caps off along with the main caps and get the crank out. Also... all the rods are free and move around. I'm a little confused because the caps say 99 on them while the rods say 29, I'm not sure if thats how it is supposed to be or not.



Now onto trying to get the pistons out, then the valves... oh joy... But atleast I'm making progress, first before all of that I plan to try and get it mounted to an engine stand because its only a matter of time before the snow flies and if its still outside then, I wont be working on it till spring!

[Mike in AZ]

keep your end caps marked as to where they came from....if you can save your con. rods, need correct caps....i think...lol....looks pretty clean so far.....are ya having fun yet??.....keep on having it....Mike

[cmbrucew]

Ford Mike
looks like you are almost there.
Some penetrant top and bottom, then work the pistons up and down gently.
Cut a piece of hardwood to fit inside the cylinder to tap on the top of the piston, and a hardwood dowell to tap the rod end. Try to save everything.

Bruce

Works good
Lasts long time

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Mike in AZ

keep your end caps marked as to where they came from....if you can save your con. rods, need correct caps....i think...lol....looks pretty clean so far.....are ya having fun yet??.....keep on having it....Mike

I wouldnt call it funnn but its sure is an experience! Its slowly becoming more of a challenge than anything else.

Originally Posted by cmbrucew

Ford Mike
looks like you are almost there.
Some penetrant top and bottom, then work the pistons up and down gently.
Cut a piece of hardwood to fit inside the cylinder to tap on the top of the piston, and a hardwood dowell to tap the rod end. Try to save everything.

Bruce

Works good
Lasts long time

If only it were that easy, this engine has sat without the heads on it for atleast 30 years and they are stuck fast. I want to get the engine on the engine stand and then fill the cylinders up with a mix and let them soak for a week or better. Then I have access to a 10 ton porta-power which should press them out with the help of a plate almost as large as the piston. We've used that technique on other, much larger engines and it worked like a charm. A couple of the pistons dont look like they will come out through the bottom, for those it will be back to the drawing board but I'm sure something will come up.

[Mart]

If the pistons are scrap, just get underneath the head of the piston with a long punch and smack the head right off the piston. Once the head has gone, the piston loses all its strength and will move quite easily with a bit more lube and knockery.

I have a badly siezed lump here and may video the technique to show how easy it is.

Mart.

[flatjack9]

I wouldn't waste the time soaking them. Just beat them out. I've soaked some for ages and when I finally pounded them out, you could see that nothing had seeped by. When they are stuck that tight, brute force is required.

[cmbrucew]

Ford Mike

When you get a piston moved down 1/2", use a cylinder hone to clean up the top of the bore, then you can drive the rod and piston out the top.
Do not use the bell housing to support the engine on the stand, but make a plate to use the exhaust bolt holes. Remember to support both sides of the engine while pounding on the pistons.

Bruce

Works good
Lasts long time

[FordMike]

Alright guys it's been awhile and I hope there are still some people checking this out that can help. I haven't done a whole lot but I did manage to get the engine inside today. I read an article about block markings so I cleaned the engine off a little bit to see what I could find...

Now I found what I assume to be the block number which is the 99 but I have no idea what the .030 above it stands for, and ideas? At first I had thought that it could be the bore without sleeves but I've been wrong before...



On the drivers side of the engine I found something a little different. When I took the crank out the bearings looked like new so I figured the engine was rebuild in the past but after seeing this it really made me think it was rebuild, professionally. Once again I am assuming here but I was thinking the large numbers are the serial numbers? I don't know just a shot in the dark. But all of the large numbers have a 1 stamped over them. The first 3 also appears to have an A L stamped on it. The smaller numbers I read as a rebuild date, 5/10/76 which fits the time period it would have been in the truck I don't know if I'm right or not...



And here are some other markings I found on the block. This one also looks like it was covered but with 7s. This is on the front right over the timing cover.



These are on the passengers side down from the 99. One is what looks like a Z in a circle and the other is D or a triangle inside of a diamond shape. I didn't know if they had any significances or not so I figured I would just post them.



I was also thinking about removing the sleeves and pistons and I figured I would run this by everyone and see if it would be doing more harm than good. I was wondering since the sleeves are so thin if you could just heat a strip down the cylinder up and not cut it but melt it out since the metal in the sleeve would heat at a much faster rate than the block, this would also in turn melt the piston out too.

Just a fleeting thought... As always thanks for checking it out!

[Ken/Alabama]

I would remove the piston by what ever means it takes but I wouldnt try to remove the sleeves,let the machine shop handle any sleeve work be it removing or reboring. If you indeed do have a 99 block I wouldnt want to chance doing any damage.

[rotorwrench]

You can use a hole saw on the top of the piston if your careful and cut it down far enough to weaken the structure. Some folks just start drilling holes around the top but it's a little harder on dome top pistons. After the dome is sufficiently weakened it will pop off a lot easier. Use a hack saw blade to cut the skirt to allow it to contract for removal. A lot of those old pistons are split skirt types so this might be easier on those. What's left will come out without a lot of harsh pounding. It's a lot of work but it insures the cylinder wall won't be distorted while beating the pistons out. It just depends on how much corrosion grew in between the skirt and the cylinder wall as to how much pressure it will take to get them out. Whacking them up and down can sometimes get this build up of corrosion to bust up & get more clearance for movement. If too much corrosion is between there, the walls can get distorted trying to remove the damn things.

Someone went ape with the stamps on that thing. There isn't any figures on there other than the "99" that make any sense to me. A rebuilder may have been trying to say something there but I sure don't know what it is.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

You can use a hole saw on the top of the piston if your careful and cut it down far enough to weaken the structure. Some folks just start drilling holes around the top but it's a little harder on dome top pistons. After the dome is sufficiently weakened it will pop off a lot easier. Use a hack saw blade to cut the skirt to allow it to contract for removal. A lot of those old pistons are split skirt types so this might be easier on those. What's left will come out without a lot of harsh pounding. It's a lot of work but it insures the cylinder wall won't be distorted while beating the pistons out. It just depends on how much corrosion grew in between the skirt and the cylinder wall as to how much pressure it will take to get them out. Whacking them up and down can sometimes get this build up of corrosion to bust up & get more clearance for movement. If too much corrosion is between there, the walls can get distorted trying to remove the damn things.

Someone went ape with the stamps on that thing. There isn't any figures on there other than the "99" that make any sense to me. A re builder may have been trying to say something there but I sure don't know what it is.

I'm going to start trying to get the pistons out very soon, and I will most likely be trying to do it like you said. A bunch of people have recommended this and that seems to be the best bet.

As far as the numbers I'm with you. The 99 was the only thing that made sense to me. Thanks for the response!

[Bruce Lancaster]

Probably a mix of rebuilder's ID numbers, inspection stamps from 1940, etc.
Ford books list a bunch of ID stuff to indicate things like sleeve motors vs iron bores, which were made at the same time, but they are often not there. I believe a bunch of these usually 2-letter codes are in the '39 resto book.
Folklore...the reason only early 239's had the "99"...allegedly, it was so they could be distinguished from visually identical 221's on the line. Then...probably due to mistakes involving slow Mercs and fast Ford mysteriously appearing...somewhere around 1941 someone got the idea of simply having the foundry paint 239's blue to make them unmistakable.

[Mart]

Please be careful, I managed to damage my block whole pounding out the pistons. I managed to punch through the side of the cylinder wall.

Not one of my finest moments.

Mart.