OT - will this old engine analyzer work on Model A's?

[mcgarrett]

I admit to being somewhat electrically illiterate, so my question is will this rig work to test any of the electrical functions on my Model A such as point dwell, condensers, alternator/generator output, and rpm etc.? My Model A is still 6 VOLT POSITIVE GROUND and I am running an alternator. I have the instruction book and all the test leads that it came with but hesitated to move forward with any testing until I got more/better info about its use. If it can be used effectively with the original electrical system I was hoping to also use it on my 6 volt '40 Ford. Appreciate any guidance.

[Dan in MI]

It should tell you in the instructions if it is compatible with positive ground. If it is hook it up as they instruct and you can check dwell and rpm. For alternator output I doubt that it will work. You can just check the voltage to verify the alternator is working.

[Gene F]

Hook it up to a pre 1990s car, and give it a try first. The thing may not even work to begin with.

I have to tell you, every time I buy a "still works" instrument it does not work. I even have sent some in for repairs, and get a call "Gene, we can't fix this thing. Where did you get it?" In a couple of cases, they said it looked like someone tried to connect the instrument to house current.

McGarrett, I'm not trying to be negative, just my experiences. I actually hope the thing works, and will work on your A.

[stickshift]

I have a Sears automotive analyzer I've had since the mid-70's. I use it on my model A and it seems to work fine with engine RPM and dwell. I just hook the terminals up reversed (red one to ground).

I just noticed it's a Heathkit. Those were known for top notch components. Usually assembled by the owner as part of a learning experience.

[mcgarrett]

Thanks to all for the comments.

Gene F,
It was given to me by a friend and fellow car buddy several years ago. It looked like it hadn't seen much use - no sign of melted test leads or smoke smudges! The instruction book is still in very good condition too. I think I'll try to hook things up according to the manual and see if anything good happens.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

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Originally Posted by Gene F

Hook it up to a pre 1990s car, and give it a try first. The thing may not even work to begin with.

I have to tell you, every time I buy a "still works" instrument it does not work. I even have sent some in for repairs, and get a call "Gene, we can't fix this thing. Where did you get it?" In a couple of cases, they said it looked like someone tried to connect the instrument to house current.

McGarrett, I'm not trying to be negative, just my experiences. I actually hope the thing works, and will work on your A.

Boy is that the truth! I found an Annie 4 port analog temperature analyzer at a swap meet for twenty bucks. I have two others that are iffy, but I like them. Open it up to put batteries in, and just as you said. Looks like someone hooked it up to 110! It was burnt fried. I guess I should have sniffed it!

[CarlG]

I've got one of these that I've had for probably 50 years:

[katy]

The dial settings show 12, 24, 32 volts, so it may or may not work on 6 volts. If it was me, I'd give it a try.

[gtovet49]

If your car is still 6 volts, I don't think it will work. If you do try to use it, be certain to put the red meter lead to your positive car lead whether it is to the starter or ground.

[mcgarrett]

Originally Posted by gtovet49

If your car is still 6 volts, I don't think it will work. If you do try to use it, be certain to put the red meter lead to your positive car lead whether it is to the starter or ground.

The lack of a 6 volt setting on the selector is the main reason I didn't think it would measure anything accurately on a 6 volt vehicle, much less one with positive ground. I might give it a try as you and others here have suggested. I don't suspect anything catastrophic would happen.

[oldspert]

Mike, You should be able to measure dwell using this meter. Dwell only tells you how long (in degrees of rotation of the crank) the contact is between breaks of current. Has nothing to do with voltage. As far as reading the charge of volts into the battery, all bets are off since it does not have a 6 volt position.

[Bob Bidonde]

Select the Volt function. Hookup the leads with the Red is on to Battery (-). If the gauge needle goes the wrong way, reverse the hookup so the Red is to the (+) of the battery.
Fundamentally, your fancy analyzer is a combination amp meter, voltmeter and capacitance bridge.

[David in San Antonio]

Tangent: As Christmas just passed I am reminded of my late father in law. He was a Navy man and then a technician at Fiberglass in central Ohio. He built a Heathkit color tv back in the 1960’s. As I recall, it had a built in tester which put grid patterns on the screen, one each for the three colors. This allowed you to adjust the linearity, focus, and overlap (my terms). Consumer Reports ranked the Heathkit as the best color TV they had ever tested, but noted the assembly and soldering process was not for beginning kit builders, and handling the color cathode ray tube required great caution. Quite the individual, he drove a little four door Peugeot (the only one ever seen within, oh, 500 miles or more) until a hydraulic clutch fitting failed and proved to be unavailable. He tried for years to get it. No problem, he traded it for an early five cylinder Audi with a peach colored velour interior. This cemented his reputation as an independent thinker. The Audi’s cruise control had an intermittent short and liked to take over at random intervals. The brakes were pretty good (discs!) and the engine not very powerful, so it wasn’t a big problem. Considering his sense of adventure and love of tinkering I’m not sure how he avoided buying a Model A.
By the way, his wife (my mother in law) drove an Olds Cutlass, then a first generation Ford Taurus. That bar of soap shaped Taurus was the extent of her daring. She had all the adventure she needed just being married to him.

[Benson]

I would learn how the meter works and how to hook it up before trying to use it.


If I remember correctly the IBM Tech school in 1967 on meters was about a week or so including the basic electricity class.


Basic electricity class is needed to understand the use of meters.



Just a couple of the many things to know are:

1. If you have the scale set to OHMS which is what the RPM and Dwell scales are and you hook leads across a battery or plug into a 110 outlet, the meter and / or one or more resistors in meter will be smoked.


The better meters (like The Simpson 260) have a fuse in the meter to prevent damage.



2. If you have meter set to AMPS and hook it across a battery there will be a dead short and meter and/or resistors inside will be smoked.


It does not take 110 volts to smoke a meter. You must understand what you are hooking across the leads.


Caution: Always Unhook the leads BEFORE turning the switch to change ranges.


Why did I say that? If you have meter set on voltage and are measuring voltage and leave leads hooked up and then rotate through the AMPs scale, the meter will be damaged.


I do not have time to cover everything here ...

[mcgarrett]

Benson,
Very enlightening information; thanks for sharing. Not that it makes any difference in this case, but the unit itself operates on 2 or 3 "D" cell batteries to power up some of the circuitry. I will certainly take yours and others' precautions seriously. The little tester is in such good shape I would hate to do anything to damage it. I will probably not use it for fear of just that happening!

[Benson]

I have built more than a few Heathkit meters, timing lights, Capacitor testers and other devices.


One was the ID-29 and CM-1073.


I have used these meters and tools since 1970 and in some cases years before 1970.


Even today I use the CM-1073 Dwell/Tach on Model As to set carburetor idle mixture (must be under 500 RPM in order to adjust idle mixture so there are no stalls during stops).


Just hook the leads across the coil leads with correct polarity .


Works on Model As (6 and 12 volts pos or neg ground) and VW Type 1 , 2, 3 and 4 engines. Porsche 912, 914, 911, 911T and 911S - 4 and 6 cylinders also.

[mcgarrett]

Originally Posted by Benson

I have built more than a few Heathkit meters, timing lights, Capacitor testers and other devices.


One was the ID-29 and CM-1073.


I have used these meters and tools since 1970 and in some cases years before 1970.


Even today on Model As to set carburetor idle mixture (must be under 500 RPM).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKXnP0OpLg4


Just hook the leads across the coil leads with correct polarity .


Works on Model As (6 and 12 volts pos or neg ground) and VW Type 1 , 2, 3 and 4 engines. Porsche 4 and 6 cylinders also.

Thanks, I just might give that RPM test a try!

[Benson]

Off topic

[katy]

Have you read the manual? Does it say anything about 6 volt?

[rotorwrench]

Heathkit manuals should be out there. I have and old Heathkit capacitor tester that has the magic eye. It plugs into 115 AC. It's likely 60-years old or so. I found a manual for it on flea-pay. The manuals tell a person how to put it together and operate it.

Most of the old 1.5 Ohm coils that were used on points type cars were operating at or near 6-volts anyway. The ballast resistor or resistor wire was used well up into the late 60s & early 70s. The dwell degrees depend on how many lobes there are on the points cam.

I just use a small dwell tack if I need one. If the OP's meter can measure amps then it could be used to adjust the generator output. Be certain to remember that an amp meter is ALWAYS connected in series with the line so it can measure load or output. Volt meters are connected in parallel. Voltage drop of a resistor is always read across the resistor with circuit energized. Resistance is always checked on a component while it is isolated from the circuit.