The Ford Barn

Minn-Tex Lee · 04-18-2011, 11:22 AM

I have seen a number of posts where folks fill up there gas tanks if they are going to let them sit over winter to prevent tank from rusting. Instruction on a number of gas operated implements say run them dry, drain the gas if it is going to sit for over 30 days. Is "old gas" really that bad? Or is the Model A really that forgiving?
Lee

Tom Wesenberg · 04-18-2011, 11:33 AM

I store my Model A with a full tank of GOOD GAS and have no problems after the 6 months of winter and no starts or touching the car during those 6 months.

Ethanol gas has short shelf life and when I tried to use some old ethaol in my motorbike the valves stuck so tight I had to remove the head and hammer them down.

Minn-Tex Lee · 04-18-2011, 11:39 AM

Thanks Tom, I'll make sure I store my A with Good gas.
Lee

kp · 04-18-2011, 12:06 PM

Where can you find any good Gas around Central Texas?

Bruce Adams · 04-18-2011, 12:16 PM

A full tank of gas resists rust.
Unfortuantely Ethanol Gasoline, E-10 stored for over a month starts gumming up the tank and carburetor by a process called LINEAR SEPERATION or PHASE SEPERATION.
StaBil now makes a product to fight this.
There are volumes written in the past five year about it.
Nowadays I run ALL my stored engines DRY.
See the attached video on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeCyFxoWPpo

Bruce Adams · 04-18-2011, 12:23 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

ANOTHER LINK.
You have to hit SKIP THE AD or you see some commercial which preceeds the news broadcast on E-10 in Older Cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em9lZ...eature=related

hardtimes · 04-18-2011, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minn-Tex Lee

I have seen a number of posts where folks fill up there gas tanks if they are going to let them sit over winter to prevent tank from rusting. Instruction on a number of gas operated implements say run them dry, drain the gas if it is going to sit for over 30 days. Is "old gas" really that bad? Or is the Model A really that forgiving?
Lee

lee,
add STA-BIL to stored gas!
btw...i got a coupe from a guy that routinely emptied the gas tank every yr prior to storage. result..fine powder rust by the ton, upon reactivation..when i got the car! tank FULL of gas plus STA BIL = no more rust

Minn-Tex Lee · 04-18-2011, 03:07 PM

It looks like it will be easier to find Sta-bil than it will be to find Good gas.
I think I will go with a full tank plus the additive.
Thanks
Lee

txmerlin · 04-18-2011, 03:26 PM

Maybe my memory fails, but I though I read something earlier that Premium did not contain the Ethanol additive. If that is correct, then the solution might be to fill it up for the winter with Ethyl.

mot · 04-18-2011, 03:34 PM

I have had terrible problems with storing gas over winter in my small engines
My Kawasaki lawn mower does fine,but my blower and chain saw hate the new gas
the Poulen chain saw had the gas react with the plastic,and i really had a hard time getting the gas cap off
put a new cap on and it was the tank that had swollen
and if i dont use the gas in a month or so,they will run horribly if at all,
I just put fresh gas in and they run fine

WILLIE · 04-18-2011, 03:38 PM

Storing a model a?? What does that mean?? Do you mean, not drive it?? Why not keep a couple of gallons in the tank, and drive it at least once a month. Would that be enough to keep the gas fresh? How often do you guys up north get a break from the snow, and mainly the salt?

Dave in Boise · 04-18-2011, 04:19 PM

I tend to pull the A's out of the garage, evein in the middle of winter and fire them up and let them run at a fast idle for about 1/2 hour, and then I put a piece of cardboard over the radiators to encourage the engine to heat up to a good hot operating temp and then pul them in the garage to help keep the engine and oil happy.. Never had much of any problem with the fuel going bad.. I burn off about a gallon or so every month or so, which I believe would burn out the seperating e-10 ethanol and leave good fuel behind? No issues with rust, etc (crosses fingers) but I do run the carb completely dry as well.

- Dave

Old182 · 04-18-2011, 05:20 PM

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment, but here goes. I'm truly not an ethanol proponent, but 10% ethanol will not ruin your fuel system or melt plastic parts. Gosh - we're talking about Jack Daniels here! Anyway, ethanol can withstand about 0.1 to 0.7 mass% water before it separates from the hydrocarbon (gasoline) into a phase of ethanol and water (plus possibly some polar additives) at the bottom of whatever the vessel is. Ethanol is a good solvent, as are most alcohols, and will clean crap out of your tank, carburetor, or whatever it sits in. That could cause filter plugging until your system is clean - then it will stop. Brazil is almost 100% ethanol but it took them years of plugged systems to get there. Now they don't care what the Arabs do, they're free. If you live in a constantly humid area, then you will get water in your tank and you will get phase separation and you will have to drain your tank or sediment bowl periodically (you may have this problem if you drive your Model A on the water as in the video). StaBil is a great product and was designed to prevent gums from forming from peroxides caused by the oxidation of olefins in the gasoline. But because olefins cause other problems, they are not used in gasolines as much as they were, and gasolines are much more stable than they used to be - even in storage. Remember also that "winter" gas is very volatile compared to "summer" gas and will evaporate quicker (for better starting and warmup), but starting an engine on a warm spring day with winter gas can cause poor idle, and rough running - not from the ethanol, but from the light ends in the fuel. Tx: the EPA rule is for a minimum 2.0 or 2.7 weight% oxygen to be in all gasolines sold in CO non-attainment areas (10% ethanol contains about 3.5%). Whether premium or regular, the gasoline has to contain the O2 to be sold legally; I don't know how some distributors get away with it (or if they really do). Dave: You can't separate the ethanol from the gasoline by burning it any more than you can drink straight JD after it's been mixed with water. But I do what you do and have been for a lot of years - with no additives and with no problems. Mot: It sounds like you may have methanol in your tank (only allowed 5% and must have a cosolvent). It's very corrosive and will attack some plastics; at 10% ethanol won't. If you are experiencing phase separation from water in your system, you might try adding nore alcohol (say, gas line antifreeze) because the more alcohol in the fuel the more water it can tolerate before phase separating.

04-18-2011, 11:22 AM	#1
Minn-Tex Lee Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stewrtvl MN-Fredbrg TX Posts: 192	Gasoline storage I have seen a number of posts where folks fill up there gas tanks if they are going to let them sit over winter to prevent tank from rusting. Instruction on a number of gas operated implements say run them dry, drain the gas if it is going to sit for over 30 days. Is "old gas" really that bad? Or is the Model A really that forgiving? Lee

04-18-2011, 11:33 AM	#2
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Gasoline storage I store my Model A with a full tank of GOOD GAS and have no problems after the 6 months of winter and no starts or touching the car during those 6 months. Ethanol gas has short shelf life and when I tried to use some old ethaol in my motorbike the valves stuck so tight I had to remove the head and hammer them down.

04-18-2011, 11:39 AM	#3
Minn-Tex Lee Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stewrtvl MN-Fredbrg TX Posts: 192	Re: Gasoline storage Thanks Tom, I'll make sure I store my A with Good gas. Lee

04-18-2011, 12:06 PM	#4
kp Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wimberley ,Tx. Posts: 232	Re: Gasoline storage Where can you find any good Gas around Central Texas?

04-18-2011, 12:16 PM	#5
Bruce Adams Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northport, NY Posts: 1,597	Re: Gasoline storage A full tank of gas resists rust. Unfortuantely Ethanol Gasoline, E-10 stored for over a month starts gumming up the tank and carburetor by a process called LINEAR SEPERATION or PHASE SEPERATION. StaBil now makes a product to fight this. There are volumes written in the past five year about it. Nowadays I run ALL my stored engines DRY. See the attached video on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeCyFxoWPpo

04-18-2011, 12:23 PM	#6
Bruce Adams Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northport, NY Posts: 1,597	Re: Gasoline storage Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) ANOTHER LINK. You have to hit SKIP THE AD or you see some commercial which preceeds the news broadcast on E-10 in Older Cars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em9lZ...eature=related

04-18-2011, 03:07 PM	#8
Minn-Tex Lee Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stewrtvl MN-Fredbrg TX Posts: 192	Re: Gasoline storage It looks like it will be easier to find Sta-bil than it will be to find Good gas. I think I will go with a full tank plus the additive. Thanks Lee

04-18-2011, 03:26 PM	#9
txmerlin Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Pflugerville, TX Posts: 15	Re: Gasoline storage Maybe my memory fails, but I though I read something earlier that Premium did not contain the Ethanol additive. If that is correct, then the solution might be to fill it up for the winter with Ethyl. __________________ Ken

04-18-2011, 03:34 PM	#10
mot Registered User Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sacramento Ca Posts: 1,179	Re: Gasoline storage I have had terrible problems with storing gas over winter in my small engines My Kawasaki lawn mower does fine,but my blower and chain saw hate the new gas the Poulen chain saw had the gas react with the plastic,and i really had a hard time getting the gas cap off put a new cap on and it was the tank that had swollen and if i dont use the gas in a month or so,they will run horribly if at all, I just put fresh gas in and they run fine

04-18-2011, 03:38 PM	#11
WILLIE Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: BRISTOL TENNESSEE Posts: 37	Re: Gasoline storage Storing a model a?? What does that mean?? Do you mean, not drive it?? Why not keep a couple of gallons in the tank, and drive it at least once a month. Would that be enough to keep the gas fresh? How often do you guys up north get a break from the snow, and mainly the salt?

04-18-2011, 04:19 PM	#12
Dave in Boise Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 330	Re: Gasoline storage I tend to pull the A's out of the garage, evein in the middle of winter and fire them up and let them run at a fast idle for about 1/2 hour, and then I put a piece of cardboard over the radiators to encourage the engine to heat up to a good hot operating temp and then pul them in the garage to help keep the engine and oil happy.. Never had much of any problem with the fuel going bad.. I burn off about a gallon or so every month or so, which I believe would burn out the seperating e-10 ethanol and leave good fuel behind? No issues with rust, etc (crosses fingers) but I do run the carb completely dry as well. - Dave

04-18-2011, 05:20 PM	#13
Old182 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Newburgh, NY Posts: 222	Re: Gasoline storage I guess I'm a glutton for punishment, but here goes. I'm truly not an ethanol proponent, but 10% ethanol will not ruin your fuel system or melt plastic parts. Gosh - we're talking about Jack Daniels here! Anyway, ethanol can withstand about 0.1 to 0.7 mass% water before it separates from the hydrocarbon (gasoline) into a phase of ethanol and water (plus possibly some polar additives) at the bottom of whatever the vessel is. Ethanol is a good solvent, as are most alcohols, and will clean crap out of your tank, carburetor, or whatever it sits in. That could cause filter plugging until your system is clean - then it will stop. Brazil is almost 100% ethanol but it took them years of plugged systems to get there. Now they don't care what the Arabs do, they're free. If you live in a constantly humid area, then you will get water in your tank and you will get phase separation and you will have to drain your tank or sediment bowl periodically (you may have this problem if you drive your Model A on the water as in the video). StaBil is a great product and was designed to prevent gums from forming from peroxides caused by the oxidation of olefins in the gasoline. But because olefins cause other problems, they are not used in gasolines as much as they were, and gasolines are much more stable than they used to be - even in storage. Remember also that "winter" gas is very volatile compared to "summer" gas and will evaporate quicker (for better starting and warmup), but starting an engine on a warm spring day with winter gas can cause poor idle, and rough running - not from the ethanol, but from the light ends in the fuel. Tx: the EPA rule is for a minimum 2.0 or 2.7 weight% oxygen to be in all gasolines sold in CO non-attainment areas (10% ethanol contains about 3.5%). Whether premium or regular, the gasoline has to contain the O2 to be sold legally; I don't know how some distributors get away with it (or if they really do). Dave: You can't separate the ethanol from the gasoline by burning it any more than you can drink straight JD after it's been mixed with water. But I do what you do and have been for a lot of years - with no additives and with no problems. Mot: It sounds like you may have methanol in your tank (only allowed 5% and must have a cosolvent). It's very corrosive and will attack some plastics; at 10% ethanol won't. If you are experiencing phase separation from water in your system, you might try adding nore alcohol (say, gas line antifreeze) because the more alcohol in the fuel the more water it can tolerate before phase separating.