Hydraulic Brakes

[Synchro909]

Hello all, I have all the bits and pieces I need to install 1948 Lincoln 'hydrochloric" Brakes on my Modal A but I've heard mixed reports from several people, the opinions of some of whom I respect. Are they better than the originals? I know that originals properly adjusted and maintained work well but do the larger (by 1") drums work better?
I have seen a Model A with a vacuum booster connected to the cross shaft for extra whoa. The owner says it works well with good feel. Is this a good way to go?
My car is a DRIVER so originality is not important Would this be a good way to go for less hassle? I would appreciate informed comments, preferably from those who have installed them. Although I am running original wheels and tyres at the moment, I will be fitting 16" wheels with radial tyres later. I'm hoping that the hydraulic brakes will be good enough to get the benefit that these tyres offer in better braking out of them. I'm not convinced that the original brakes, no matter how well set up would be able to lock the 16" tyres on a dry road.

[Joe K]

With stock Model A brakes, the limitation on stopping is the square inches of rubber contacting the road.

No matter how much you think you can improve stopping by installiing hydraulic brakes, you can't get past where the rubber meets the road.

You may in fact degrade stopping over strict mechanical brakes the car came with originally.

My own thought on this was to install 1940-1947 Ford Hydraulics using the later backing plates, drums, shoes, all pasted onto the Model A spindles. These are brakes for a car that weighed on the order of 2x the weight of the Model A.

And then I realized how hydraulic brakes installed as a direct transfer was putting MORE of a tendency to skid based on the challenged footprint. And once you skid - controlled braking is DONE.

So I gave it up. The backing plates, hubs, drums and master were all discarded. And instead I worked on improving the existing mechanical brakes.

I'm not convinced that the original brakes, no matter how well set up would be able to lock the 16" tyres on a dry road

I think the original brakes at best marginal based on brake fade. Adequate for their day but steel drums just don't cut it with modern traffic, which is at least part of the reason that Ford himself changed over to cast iron drums for the Model A in the last days of production.

But cast iron drums another matter entirely compared to original. And 16" tires still present about the same area of contact to the road - a little better "contact aspect" perhaps.

Think of the tire pressure at 35 psi. To support a 2000 lb car requires 57.1 square inches of tread.

It will be a little harder to skid 16" tires, based on their contact aspect, but only a little.

Joe K

[harryc]

Not worth the hassle and expense no matter what you may hear ! I've had hydraulics on several A's over the past 50 years. I would never switch to them. I have them on my 29 pickup and would gladly trade for stock if anyone wanted to do the work of changing. I may change them myself later this year.

[Hicktick]

Just slow down and enjoy the drive ,.., you don't want all those leaking wheel cylinders , , smelly fluid ,. help me pump it up ,,. pedal goes to floor ,.,.,, moisture in fluid ,.,.., I think its the master cylinder ,.., the bleeder just broke off ,. ,..,.

.,,.,. good originals .,.,

,.,.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by Hicktick

Just slow down and enjoy the drive ,.., you don't want all those leaking wheel cylinders , , smelly fluid ,. help me pump it up ,,. pedal goes to floor ,.,.,, moisture in fluid ,.,.., I think its the master cylinder ,.., the bleeder just broke off ,. ,..,.

.,,.,. good originals .,.,

,.,.

LOL one way to put it. I cant say on a model A with hydraulic brakes but after dealing with multiple brake systems on modern vehicles, the thought of a menchanical system tickles me. No leaky wheel cylinders or masters or why the @#% is the pedal still spongy yet no obvious leaks sounds like a dream haha.

[CWPASADENA]

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I would completely rebuild the mechanical brakes using woven linings and CAST IRON DRUMS.

You will be surprised how good the brakes are.

I have other cars that have been converted to hydraulics and I am for ever fighting leaking wheel cylinders etc. My Model A is always ready to go no matter how long it has been sitting.

I would never convert a Model A to hydraulics now that we have good components available to properly fix the mechanicals.

My opinion,

Chris W.

[springerpete]

Put some of the effort, time and money you would expend installing the hydraulic brakes on your A into making sure your original brakes are in top condition. You will be pleased.

[MrBruce]

I've driven the A's with mechanical brakes for 30 years and wouldn't switch. Sure you have to be aware, but if adjusted and in good shape they stop the car as Ford intended.

[Logan]

Just got done converting a car. Its a pain in the ass, and in my opinion is not worth the trouble. A well restored mechanical brake will work just as good as a hydraulic brake.

[Synchro909]

Thanks for the replies, Guys. Sounds like I was right to respect the opinions of those guys who weren't keen on the idea. I have cast Iron drums and new woven linings coming for the brakes so it seems I will have the best possible shot at having them work well I also have old drums to cut a hole in to centre the shows properly. It all looks good. I'm tired of hearing my wife screaming!!!!!!

[700rpm]

Mechanical brakes make you a safer driver.

[1929]

I have heard that some have gone back to mechanical brakes after they switched, I was told to just fix my present brakes which I will do with cast iron drums instead of the steel, and my steel still stopped even though they were in bad condition. Iam not switching to hydraulics.

[denis4x4]

Posted this before; never had leaky cylinders in 20+ years with hydraulic brakes. I have had serious brake fade with stock brakes.


Let's put this issue in context: if your putting around on back roads, stock brakes are fine. If you're running in serious traffic with 80+ HP, go with hydraulics.

[ursus]

The 1940 Ford hydraulics on my coupe were installed by a previous owner so I am dancing (or braking) with the one that brought me. I have looked for a decent set of original Model A brakes but have only found incomplete sets of cast-off junk. I don't want to be piecing together a braking system from random bits, especially as I have no mechanical experience with originals. However, if a rodder wants to unload the complete brakes or rolling chassis from his "project" I would be interested. Just my perspective.

[pooch]

Think of the tire pressure at 35 psi. To support a 2000 lb car requires 57.1 square inches of tread.

I have never ever heard of this equation in my life.

Sounds a bit made up to me.

Any facts on this available ?

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by pooch

Think of the tire pressure at 35 psi. To support a 2000 lb car requires 57.1 square inches of tread.

I have never ever heard of this equation in my life.

Sounds a bit made up to me.

Any facts on this available ?

Check out a lab experiment derived around this fact.

http://exploratorium.edu/snacks/tired_weight/index.html

Joe K

[daveymc29]

I have proven (to myself and my wife) that when you run into the car ahead of you, it is immaterial whether you have hydraulic or mechanical brakes. Either will get the job done with enough room in front of you. Neither will if someone jumps in front of you and piles on the brakes with a modern machine. I'd bet the average tire to road ratio on our A's is about 1/4 that of most SUV's, even the smaller ones. If the roadway is wet, all bets are off.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I'm not convinced that the original brakes, no matter how well set up would be able to lock the 16" tyres on a dry road.

Then there is nothing we can say except, some people never let facts get in the way of an opinion.

[Jim Brierley]

I have hydraulics on 2 of my A's, and would never go back to originals, especially on a driver. I use silicone fluid, no leaks and doesn't draw moisture. They are 1" bigger in diameter and have wider shoes. Lincoln type are self energising = easier pedal pressure. They were designed for heavier cars so give you more stopping power in reserve. Sure mechanical's will slide stock wheels and work fine at low speeds and no traffic, but your life is at stake. Don't take chances. If possible drive someone's stocker to get a feel of mechanical's and ask how often they need adjusting.

[Purdy Swoft]

My mechanical brakes don't need ajustment any more often than hydraulic, before they came out with self adjusting brakes.