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Old 03-17-2018, 09:34 AM   #1
Randy1944
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Default 51 Flathead V8

I just picked up a 51 engine and want to restore it as a project to keep myself busy. Van Pelt lists the engine as bronze in color. Question:: Does anyone know where I can find color pictures of an engine so I can use proper colors? Also need source for bronze paint. Many thanks. Randy
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:38 AM   #2
AlexLohmann1
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

http://www.hirschauto.com/mobile/ENG...RT/FOR%20BRNZ/

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:16 AM   #3
Randy1944
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

WOW, Now that is a good looking example of what I had in mind. Any info on bronze paint? Thanks again for the picture. That gives me an example to strive for.
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Old 03-17-2018, 12:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Bill Hirsch paint is often mentioned as the best.
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Old 03-17-2018, 01:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Bill Hirsch paint can be brushed on & looks GR8, that's what i use.
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

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Bill Hirsch paint is what I used.
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:28 PM   #7
Randy1944
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Thanks for the additional pictures. Could someone help me with the earlier post showing a picture of a beautiful engine. My engine was said to be a 1951 and the water pumps on it are different. The motor mount part of the pumps are what are different. My pumps use the narrow belts. So, do I have a 51 or not? Thanks
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

the first picture shows truck water pumps, your engine with the narrow belts and different pumps is a car engine. all parts are interchangable.
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Thanks for the update. I understand now. Thanks
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:46 PM   #10
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

The Merc engines were green, Also the engines changed sometime in the middle of 51. The early ones had hardened seats in the exhaust and early Bell housing. The late 51 engines were EAC , had a Ford bell housing, among other differences. The Ford engines were Bronze. For the exception of the 3" cramk they were the same.
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Old 03-17-2018, 03:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy1944 View Post
Thanks for the additional pictures. Could someone help me with the earlier post showing a picture of a beautiful engine. My engine was said to be a 1951 and the water pumps on it are different. The motor mount part of the pumps are what are different. My pumps use the narrow belts. So, do I have a 51 or not? Thanks
Pumps get changed over the years. If you have what appears to be truck style pumps with the tab for rubber biscuit mounts and they are narrow belt you have Merc pumps. They are not repopped. I'm running a set in my '39 p/u and you need to use the Merc u shaped spacer between the pump tab and the rubber mount. I can post pictures of my spare Merc pumps next to an 8rt truck pump if that will help. One more thing about Merc pumps, they had wide belts in 1949 and maybe 1950. Again, look like 8rt truck pumps but the mount tab on the pump is different.
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Old 03-17-2018, 03:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

I would also suggest Bill Hirsch paint, and get it in brush, not spray. It flows out really well!

By the way, Alex provided you the link in his first post: http://www.hirschauto.com/mobile/ENG...RT/FOR%20BRNZ/

Update: LOL, Ford Bronze is out of stock! May have to call them and see when they will have it again. It is worth the wait, if it was me I would not go with a second option.
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Old 03-17-2018, 04:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

I went to the Hirsch site and left them a message. I’m sure they will get back to me. I will double check on my water pumps. They do not have the round biscuit mount. Thanks everyone.
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Old 03-18-2018, 09:02 AM   #14
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Merc & truck pumps both incorporate a biscuit type mount. The mount arm on OCM pumps are in a higher location on the block with a wider set mounting than the 8RT types. This is why the Merc pumps need the adapters. Narrow belts came along in 1950 and remained for the duration on all but the trucks.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Randy, Here's the Bill Hirsch bronze applied along with 8RT wide belt pumps in a 40 Ford. No U-shaped Merc spacers used, just biscuits, when installed in a 40 Ford. Pump shown is an 8RT truck pump. The "U" shaped spacers were used with the stock Mercury water pumps. You can see the difference in location of engine bolt flange. Also, you might want to consider installing one of my coil bracket holders to give a 'clean , uncluttered look. They work great.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...racket+support
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Last edited by 19Fordy; 03-18-2018 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 03-18-2018, 06:40 PM   #16
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Don't know what you are planning on doing with the 8ba but ff you are planning on installing it in your '39 p/u you'll either need to convert to wide belts (since you said the engine had narrow belt car pumps) so you can run 8rt truck pumps or use the Merc narrow belt pumps which need the u shaped spacer. You'll also need a rear sump truck pan or rear sump Merc pan and either a cast iron truck or Merc stamped steel 1/2 bell to mate the 8ba to the '39 trans. Truck 1/2 bell allows you to run an 11 inch clutch but not the Merc.
Photos show the difference between the narrow belt Merc pump and an 8rt wide belt truck pump.
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Old 03-18-2018, 08:07 PM   #17
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

I used the stamped steel 1949-50 Merc bell housing with matching starter plate to bolt my 40 trans to an 8BA. Will also adapt the 39 Ford trans to a 1949-53 8BA Ford engine, 49-53 8RT truck 239 V-8 and 49-53 Merc engine.
Here's a Merc engine with the 51 Merc water pump. Spacer must be used with the merc pumps.
Spacer not needed with the 8RT truck pumps.
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Old 03-19-2018, 08:03 AM   #18
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

My current plan for the motor is to tear it down and if things look good, I will rebuild it. I’m just using it as a project to keep me busy and out of the wife’s way. The motor ran when pulled out of a 51 Ford sedan, but has sat for maybe 5-6 years inside. We shall see how things go. Im slow, but will get pictures and keep you posted with findings. Thanks
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:45 PM   #19
19Fordy
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Take plenty of "before", "during" and "after" photos for reference and provenance.
Plus, very helpful when reassembling.
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Old 03-20-2018, 10:37 AM   #20
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Quote:
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My current plan for the motor is to tear it down and if things look good, I will rebuild it. Iím just using it as a project to keep me busy and out of the wifeís way. The motor ran when pulled out of a 51 Ford sedan, but has sat for maybe 5-6 years inside. We shall see how things go. Im slow, but will get pictures and keep you posted with findings. Thanks
You should be alright. I had a '51 mercury flathead that I bought as a running unit about 20 years ago. I kept it inside for the interim period, and when I pulled it out two years ago, it started almost immediately and ran fine. The only thing I did was turn it over manually every couple of years. If it's stuck, it would have to be something unusual (water, rodents got inside or something), and you would be better served disassembling it and finding out what is wrong rather than trying to force it.
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:25 PM   #21
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

I took pics this morning of the motor. I used my tablet that I am using now to take the pics and now I can’t figure out how to get them to my message. Anyhow, I witnessed somewhat of a miracle this morning. When I tried to remove the bolts that hold the water pumps- they screwed right out with very little effort. I must say that it almost took my breath away! I will work on the pics now. I am really slow when it comes to tablets and computers.
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:46 PM   #22
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I think I got some pics. I hope.
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:41 AM   #23
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Not to hijack the thread or anything but:


When the motors were original what colours were used on the
-water pumps
-main pulley
-oil pan
-starter
-generator


I've seen all kinds of combinations of engine colour / black on these items and I'm way to young to have seen one of these things when they were new.





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Old 03-22-2018, 09:54 AM   #24
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Randy, Not sure it's a good idea to use a chain on the exhaust manifold for lifting. They crack pretty easily.
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

kirkf,
For the '51 colors are as follows;
water pumps- bronze
main pulley- black
oil pan- bronze
starter- bronze (black for fordomatic cars)
generator- black
These are the colors listed in the '49-'51 restorer's guide.
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Old 03-22-2018, 03:12 PM   #26
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

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I took pics this morning of the motor. I used my tablet that I am using now to take the pics and now I canít figure out how to get them to my message. Anyhow, I witnessed somewhat of a miracle this morning. When I tried to remove the bolts that hold the water pumps- they screwed right out with very little effort. I must say that it almost took my breath away! I will work on the pics now. I am really slow when it comes to tablets and computers.
When you reinstall the pumps use a stainless bolt and anti seize for the bolt that is accessible through the lower hose fitting.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:43 AM   #27
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Default Re: 51 Flathead V8

Hey, Thanks to everyone for the information. 19forty, yes, it was a bad idea and sadly, I used it because it was quick.
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