66-A Deluxe Pickup on ebay

[RonC]

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

But what would it be if you put it back, given the "evidence" that it was in the past?

What Marco is saying is that the only part that is a 66-A
is the bed. The bed attaches to an ordinary 82-B which is the rest of the truck body. What's for sale is an ordinary 82-B and 78-B bed. So if you have an original 66-A bed you could attach it to any 82-B pickup cab and have a rare vehicle.

Now if you had paperwork for the one for sale that documented the serial number to an actual 82-B + 66-A delivered then it would be more desirable then one that was "put together" IF you could find the correct 66-A bed to put back. A repro bed would be much less desirable but would be better than nothing on an original documented 82-B + 66-A.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

But what would it be if you put it back, given the "evidence" that it was in the past?

Ok, but playing Devil's Advocate with you, below is a picture of what we all would agree is called a Diamond Ring. Take away either the diamond, --or the ring and what do you have? I think most would say it is now called a Ring or a loose Diamond, however it really is no longer a Diamond Ring, ...even though many of us saw it once as a diamond ring.

[eagle]

I am a driver person. Having said that, I appreciate the "correct" restorations. If you took a standard cab and made it into a 66A, however nice it turns out, it originally was a standard. It can never be called "restored". If you take THIS pickup and restore it, you will have a restored 66A! Sure not all of the parts on it will be original to the vehicle, but it will be correct to its original build. I would love to see it when one of you fine point guys gets done with it!!!! I don't have it in me at this point in my life but sure appreciate those of you who do.

[Roadster62]

There was a 1929 TOWN CAR on eBay a while back and it had a long discussion here on the Ford Barn. It had a cowl section ONLY, and as I recall most people thoight it was a rough TOWN CAR. to me this 66A is a far better vehicle condition wise, with a better chance of being totall restored to "As New" condition. Bob

[Neil Wilson]

Thanks Marco for your explanation, I fully agree with you. Once a commercial A or AA is stripped of its original cargo body, it is no longer the vehicle it was off the assembly line.

An AA with only a cab is just a cab and chassis no matter what cargo body was on it from the factory. An AA which was originally a service car (i.e. 82-B with 229-A) is just a cab and chassis once the 229-A body is removed. If a platform body is put on this unit, then it is a closed cab platform truck.

[theHIGHLANDER]

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So by what everyone seems to think, given the evidence or even the idea that it was once a 66-A, it can now NEVER go back. Is this correct? I disagree. Same gauge sheet metal, built exactly as Henry did, same type of wood and hardware, a restored 66-A. How could it be anything but?

Let's flip it around further yet. I do the same to "any" 82-B, make it exactly the same, then I feel it's not nor ever will be the real thing. By some of the logic, if I found a 34 Packard 12 Cpe/Roadster that's missing it's fenders and hood but still has it's coachwork and running gear, then it can never be a 12 Roadster. Too many missing parts, even though they can be either found or duplicated. If I found a Hemi Cuda conv (a real one) missing it's engine but I find the correct Hemi and restore it, it can never be real. Add any of the other "holy grail" makes/models to the idea. When is it "too far gone"?

Logic would nearly demand this is not too far gone. Assuming everyone in-the-know can verify that cab was once a 66/82 pickup. It's frame and engine #s are matching, they date code to the cab and it falls in to when that model was introduced/produced. Never can be "real" again? That's a sad commentary for the restoration outlook and desire to preserve. As I said before, if I did bring it back and was shunned from OEM judging because of it, I'd be very upset with the position taken given the proofs and quality of restoration. For the record, I'm not saying this exact truck is/was, but let's use it to clear up the idea. It sure looks like it was, doesn't it?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Roadster62

There was a 1929 TOWN CAR on eBay a while back and it had a long discussion here on the Ford Barn. It had a cowl section ONLY, and as I recall most people thoight it was a rough TOWN CAR. to me this 66A is a far better vehicle condition wise, with a better chance of being totall restored to "As New" condition. Bob

HERE and HERE are the two threads regarding that auction discussion.

Yes Bob it was a T/C cowl which was unique to that bodystyle and definitely identified the origins. Even in one of those threads back then I questioned whether that was enough for someone to legitimately say they owned a Town Car.

I guess the argument will always be that in this circumstance, someone with a drill motor and a 9/16ths drill bit could 'puncture' 6 strategically placed holes in any closed cab pick-up and make the statement it is a 66-A just like someone can take a stripped "Standard" 40B Roadster body and claim it is/was a 'DeLuxe'.

An interesting thought (--at least for me anyway) is exactly when did Ford management determine during a cab's construction that Budd (-or whomever) was to make it as a 66-A or an 82-B? Knowing Ford as I do, nothing was really left to chance as seemingly every part or assembly was manufactured by decision, so they probably planned the purchase order for XX amount of 66-A bodies to be delivered however one can ponder if just prior to assembly time whether a 82-B body was drilled to become the now 66-A bodystyle??

.

[Bob Johnson]

We would all likely agree that if a Deluxe Pickup had ALL of the original parts that it came with from the factory then it is a Deluxe Pickup. If however there are parts missing then everyone has different ideas on how much can be missing and the vehicle can still be called a Deluxe Pickup.

I doubt that there are any Model As out there with only the parts that were installed on that car at the factory. What would one call a vehicle that is made from many different cars. If you start with a frame from a Tudor, an engine from a coupe, drivetrain from a Fordor, cab from an AA. Then build an 66-A bed using a mixture of original parts and exact reproduction parts. Is this now a Deluxe Pickup?

What I would say about the one listed for sale is "It is a vehicle that originally was a Deluxe Pickup that has had most of the unique 66-A parts removed".

Bob

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

So by what everyone seems to think, given the evidence or even the idea that it was once a 66-A, it can now NEVER go back. Is this correct? I disagree. Same gauge sheet metal, built exactly as Henry did, same type of wood and hardware, a restored 66-A. How could it be anything but?

I don't think that is what folks are saying at all. Quite the contrary! I believe there is one person that has posted in this thread that either has all the missing pieces of that bed, --or knows where they are which could be used as patterns to duplicate the wood & sheetmetal necessary to re-create the bed. I also feel certain I have the connections (as likely do others) to have all of the hardware duplicated if I/we had an original set to pattern off of. Therefore like you --and we are saying is yes it could be a 66-A however I think the real point right now is if this is a real 66-A cab in its present state. Like Bob said above, I think the issue is can someone prove it?

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by theHIGHLANDER

So by what everyone seems to think, given the evidence or even the idea that it was once a 66-A, it can now NEVER go back. Is this correct? I disagree. Same gauge sheet metal, built exactly as Henry did, same type of wood and hardware, a restored 66-A. How could it be anything but?

Yes, the 66-A bed could be recreated and the vehicle would then be a Deluxe Pickup. However very few folks could/would do more than simulate the original bed. Even if it were a faithful reproduction it wouldn't interest me personally. For the same reason I have no interest in owning a "restored" Station Wagon as to me the bodies are 75% reproduction.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

Yes, the 66-A bed could be recreated and the vehicle would then be a Deluxe Pickup. However very few folks could/would do more than simulate the original bed. Even if it were a faithful reproduction it wouldn't interest me personally. For the same reason I have no interest in owning a "restored" Station Wagon as to me the bodies are 75% reproduction.

It usually is about this time during these discussions when someone brings up the story about owning George Washington's axe that he used to cut down that famous tree. Anyone gonna have a go at it ....again??

.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

It usually is about this time during these discussions when someone brings up the story about owning George Washington's axe that he used to cut down that famous tree. Anyone gonna have a go at it ....again??

.

Is that the one that only had the handle replaced 3 times and the head only once?

[jkelsh]

On flip side would it be worse to put an original 66-A bed on a 82-B Cab?

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

It usually is about this time during these discussions when someone brings up the story about owning George Washington's axe that he used to cut down that famous tree. Anyone gonna have a go at it ....again??

Too late - see post #36

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by jkelsh

On flip side would it be worse to put an original 66-A bed on a 82-B Cab?

That would be original. Nobody reproduces the cab.

[juke joint johnny]

I may be off mark here !!
But what happens if this seller on Ebay is like so many others and splits up a pair to think he will get more money that way!!! and after he sells the truck for a inflated price !!!

Next week low and Behold he has turned up a super rare 66A pickup bed!!!

That would put the Cat amongst the Pigeons I bet we would all go Loopy!!!

JohnCochran

[WTSHNN]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

It usually is about this time during these discussions when someone brings up the story about owning George Washington's axe that he used to cut down that famous tree. Anyone gonna have a go at it ....again??

.

Originally Posted by WTSHNN

I think of the old adage about my great-grandfather's axe, it's been passed down four generations now and has only had the handle replaced twice and the head replaced once.
-Tim

Yup, beat you to it. Minus the eye roll.

-Tim

[theHIGHLANDER]

There was a Packard LeBaron Coupe that burned to the ground over 40yrs ago. The cowl survived as did a fender or 2, the main body was razed. That car is now out there, done, considered "real" by folks who demand provenance. Considering it's value could exceed $3,000,000, I guess it's proofs are ok. In the same vein, there's a known quantity of V-16 Cadillacs. Some have had their bodies "replaced", but lo and behold, GM has documentation of those cars. A safe car to look for, considering, yet here we are discussing the same thought process about a Model A, and a pickup at that.

I don't want anyone to consider this as being argumentative. I just happen to find this philosophy about what's real and what isn't somewhat intriguing. The different perspectives, where does it end, begin. Some are so far out there that they consider a car once sold "non-original" because it's in the hands of a private party now. I recall someone wanting to change judging standards to the "end of the line" vs "delivered to the customer". That's just goofy IMO. I was told I ruined a 69 Boss 302 because I changed the color, when it was mine, to one of 4 available colors, in the early 80s before it was a car approaching $75K in value. I've heard this topic since I 1st picked up a spray gun, and as much as stuff changes it sure seems to stay the same.

[CHuDWah]

This may be a fun "angels dancing on the head of a pin" discussion but so what? Since this truck is for sale, it seems to me the practical question is whether it's being (or having once been) a DeLuxe Pickup adds to its current value. I don't think so.

If one is after bragging rights and/or wants to preserve an "as-is" DeLuxe survivor, that may put a premium on it. But if the only difference between a standard and DeLuxe pickup (other than the bed) is the bright trim and some holes and wood bracing in the cab, it would be easy enough to fake this one. I have no reason to believe it is fake but, the physical evidence aside, I know of no way to PROVE it is a DeLuxe without original paperwork to that effect.

I know most people aren't in the hobby to make money. But if one restores it as a DeLuxe, the end result will be worth more than a standard and that also may put a premium on it now. But that has to be balanced against the substantial cost of an original or reproduction 66-A bed.

If it is restored as a standard, the cost may be less but so will be the value of the end result. Again, that has to be considered in the purchase price.

I admit I'm not into fine point restoration but I can't see how that would be affected by whether the truck is or isn't a true DeLuxe. If it's restored to that level of authenticity, whether as a DeLuxe or a standard, it should score equally well regardless how it started life. Again, I can't see that adding any premium to the purchase price.

Bottom line, this truck is missing the component that would make it more valuable - the 66-A bed. In my view, it's worth little, if any, more than any other bed-less steel-top pickup in the same condition. As of this post, it's up to $8K and hasn't met the reserve - IMHO, that's the upper end of the value of its potential.

[Roadster62]

I find this discussion rather strange based on others were the day and time of cotter pin instalation is questioned. If that 66A was a Type 37A Bugatti missing the gas tank and tail section it would still be a Type 37A Bugatti. Bob