1940 Coupe Body to Frame Attachment Points

[Mikey T]

Hello and Merry Christmas! I'm piecing together a very worn and torn 1940 coupe that if I had a brain in my head, I would have cut up and moved on, but this is my baby and its going to live again. I've replaced the lower cowls, floor and sub-rails, rear pan and both rear quarters including drip rails. Basically the roof and firewall was all that was attached. I've lined everything up and the doors all look good but I'm hung up on how the rear quarters attach on the bottom. I know the B pillar is bolted to the sub-rail and front outrigger/support. Then the sub-rail and floor, bolts to the rear outrigger/support. At the end of sub-rail right before the rear axel a bolt goes through the sub-rail into the side of the frame to a caged nut on both sides. This where I'm getting hung up. Should the bolt go through the quarter panel pulling it tight to the sub-rail and frame? Should the quarter panel sheetmetal be welded along the sub-rail? There is another hole and cage nut after the axel centerline, beyond the sub-rail. Should the quarter panel be bolted to the frame at that point? I know the trunk floor ties the rear quarters together and I would guess the rails should be welded to the sub-rail. Whenever I read of someone removing a body from the frame or vendors selling bolt and rubber mounts the four bolts going into the side of the frame in the rear never get mentioned. I'm sure most them disappear from rust but I'm trying to get it right. Any help or guidance would be great. Might be a good question for Kube. Thanks for all the great posts and info.

[TJ]

The body sits on a series of rubber pads. When you buy the rubber pad kit there are instructions on where they are placed and that will help you place the body on the frame and where to drill holes in the new metal.

[Newc]

I cheated- I lowered my cpe shell on to a 4 dr sdn floor pan. Fit perfectly. the tool tray area is different. It was all posted in the V8 forum here . note my avitar on HAMB. Newc

[Mikey T]

Thanks, I'll check it out.

[Pete pa]

All bolts for the body to frame go thru the top of the frame rails, and the top of the x-member rails, no bolts in the wheel wells of the quarters to the side of the frame. And the trunk floor is spot welded to the quarters in the wheel wells, from the bottom of tool tray forward to the point where the wheel wells separate from the sub-rails. I have a 40 coupe body that should have been scrapped also, that I put the entire floor, sub-rails, firewall, rain gutters and rear body panels, and patched the rear wheel wells where the fenders bolt on. I have pictures of those areas on the H.A.M.B. if you want to see what I did with my project, look up two couped up and go to my pictures for v12 Lincoln, or PM me an email address and I'll send you pictures.

[19Fordy]

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Here's info. that will help.
https://www.google.com/search?q=1940...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[Mikey T]

Thanks 19Fordy I'll do some digging

[Mikey T]

Pete Pa, Thanks for the info. You got me on track with my drip rail install at the HAMB, now I'm in more trouble. Your description of the trunk floor welded to the rear quarter from the tool box to the sub rails is right on. Does the rear quarter get welded to the sub-rail between the "B" pillar to the end of the sub-rail? I have a 1" gap between the rear quarter and the sub-rail, but its hitting on the new rear outrigger so that could be trimmed to pull it in tight if that's what's supposed to happen? Getting back to the bolt in the side of the frame. On the end of the new sub-rail there's a hole that lines up perfectly with a hole and caged nut on the side of the frame right before the wheel well centerline. If you look on the 1940 Frame Drawing profile there's a hole on the side before and after the center line. I can't find any other reference to it other than the drawing. I'll go back to your pictures and check them out again. Thanks.

[Mikey T]

You threw me a curve, "Pete Pa" is "Two Couped Up" and Mikey T is Lifter on the HAMB. Doesn't take much for me to get confused these days.

[Pete pa]

Yes, the quarters weld to the sub-rails between the B-pillar and the rear outrigger, there should be a 90 degree lip on the bottom of the sub-rail to weld the quarter to, then you will have to make a small patch to weld in the gap where the sub-rail starts to curve up and the quarter goes straight. I had to trim some metal from my quarter patch panels also at the rear outrigger to fit them. The hole in the side of the frame and the sub-rails hole does line up, and I used it to align my patch panels when I welded them in because I couldn't get my vice grips in between the frame and the sub-rails to pull the sheetmetal together to put my drill screws in to do the plug welds, but they are not used for mounting the 40 body, they don't line up when you install the body to frame pads. The 35 thru 40 cars and trucks use almost the same outer rails and those holes may be used by another year or body style. I'll take some pictures of those areas today.

[Pete pa]

Mike, I sent you a PM on the HAMB with pictures cause I can't get the pictures to load here. Pete

[Mikey T]

Hey Pete pa, its taking me a while to get it, but its exactly as you described. The small lip on the panel and subrail between the B pillar and the outrigger and again after the outrigger before it starts to rise up over the wheel well. I'm guessing the panel and subrail should be flush where they both meet and pulled tight before welding. That will probably be my starting point welding everything up. My fear is to start welding things and find I've got things in the wrong place. I got the new cowls in, shimmed and bolted, doors on and looking ok, hood on and the cowl lines up pretty good. Next are the fenders, radiator and grill. I do have to make the hood seam on the top of the firewall a little larger. Might be some adjustment in the hinge parts where they attach to the cowl. I was also wondering if the stock subrails end at the top of the frame arch? Is that where the 1" angle starts for the trunk floor support? I also seem to have trouble with the tail pan dimensions. I believe its too tight because the tool pan won't fit and I've read these particular pieces can be a little inconsistent. This will probably be the last piece to fit and weld, but is there an outside dimension the tailpan should be or does it just depend on how the trunk lid fits? Thanks again for your help and the great pictures. In spite of myself I may get this baby back on the road again.....some day.

[Newc]

Note ; I understand that there are three cpe tail pans [tool trays] mfgr'd. I like Drake's and Carpenter's for trunk lid fit. The third fits, but the curve for the trunk lid is narrow. I had to widen it left/right- too narrow. Newc

[Mikey T]

Thanks Newc, I have the EMS and the tool tray is either too big or the tailpan is too small. How did you widen it? Did you split it and fill in a piece or did you re-bend the sides?

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Mikey T

Thanks Newc, I have the EMS and the tool tray is either too big or the tailpan is too small. How did you widen it? Did you split it and fill in a piece or did you re-bend the sides?

I had an EMS (once). It fit very well in the scrap metal pile. United Pacific has well fitting pans. Drake did years ago.

[Pete pa]

Hi Mikey, sounds like you are making progress on your coupe. The subrails, wheel wells, and floor all come together and form a pinch weld seam, I use 1/8" sheetmetal screws to hold everything together in the areas where I will be plug welding, this way you can fit it all and adjust it before you weld it. I installed the rear fenders, running boards and trunk lid to make sure everything was going to line up, then when it all fits I removed the parts and start welding, lots of extra work but if you weld before you mock the whole thing up you may not have the fit you want.
The Drake tail panel which I think was the best fitting that I have used, it fit perfect. Carpenters fits good it needs very little work, the EMS is IMO junk, way too much work to fit it, the trunk opening and both sides need a lot of work and the 18 gauge metal makes fitting it a problem, I installed one for a friend that got it with his car, and had cut it on both sides off at the bend where the fenders attach (too narrow) and make new pieces to fit it to the car. When you mount your fenders, you will see what it needs to make it fit. The lip for the trunk weather seal needed cut off and reworked. I sent you my phone number in a PM, give me a call if you need pictures or have questions.

[Mikey T]

Pete Pa, Thanks again, I'm moving slow, but it does come together like you say. I ordered the Carpenter rear pan today and I'm sending my EMS pan to Kube for his scrap metal pile where it belongs. (thanks Kube for the info) Mocking it up is definitely the way to go otherwise the pan would have made a mess of things. Those 1/4 tec screws work great. I'm still trying to use the EMS tool pan, but I think that may need some work too. I'm sure EMS contributes to our hobby with many great products for an assortment of cars, but at my age I'm not that patient any more. Making progress! Thanks,