Purchase Advise: 1930 Model A Tudor

[barkleydave]

My dad told me if your finding excuses to justify walk.
You can easy put 5k to make it a real runner.

[ronn]

If you are as busy as you say with work, I would pass, spend a bit more for a fine running car to enjoy. you dont sound like you have the time, nor want to work on the car.
You need to determine if you want a project or a nice driveable car. Of course you will then spend more money.................

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Well, FWIW I paid 4k for a super solid, non running Tudor in 2001. I know times change but similar in that it was a frame up amateur restoration from the early 70s. I got decent paint, aged but decent LB interior but overall the car was in need of a lot of TLC. Also in 15 + years of tracking these cars the values have changed a lot less than some othe types of cars, at least IMO. Most people thought it was a decent deal. More than once I was told that the rodders would be happy to get it for 4k if I didn't want to put it back on the road.

Was ultimately into it for around 12k or so, got 10k for it in trade on another car. The biggest expenses were pro brakes, front end and replacement of top including wood, top and headliner. The rest was done over time at home. My approach at the time was:

1) get the car running, use it around the neighborhood and get familiar with Model As.

2) Initially wanted to do more of the "bigger stuff" myself but also wanted to use the car for longer distances, etc. bottom line - I decided I valued getting the safety items addressed sooner rather than later as time was limited, and figured I would let the shop deal with the top at the same time.

3) continue to handle mechanical and cosmetic projects over time of ownership.

When it was time to move on it was not a money maker but not too bad either - a fun car and I traded being into it for a little more than it was worth for the ability to enjoy quickly. My point is DIY vs. a pro may make sense but with these cars it will likely put you in a situation of a larger investment than it is worth in the end. Some folks can tolorate that while others would not go that route. It was rewarding to revive a 30 year old restoration and while not perfect I am sure new owner is happy with the overall looks and driveability of the car. So how you approach the repairs is a personal choice - time, money and desire to use vs. work on it are all factors to consider.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Actually what ronn said. At the time it made sense but today I would spend a little more and enjoy immediately.

[oliverguy]

why does a restored car have Patina? Why does a restored car need that much work? I'd probably spend 4K for an all orginal car that needed everything and had not ever been messed with (becoming rarer every day), but will run from someone's half assed restoration.

Your always ahead buying a car which runs drives and stops the way it should. YOur still going to need to put money into it, you always do. As it sits now you might have 12K into it and still have an old restoration.

[oliverguy]

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also a dealer always makes 50% profit or they wouldn't be in business. I'd rather put that mark up in my pocket by buying from a private party.

[vespaholic]

@ oliverguy:
I guess because stuff happens.
A car that was restored 20-30 years ago then used would have patina.
My 1967 Galaxie that I restored in 1991 has patina now simply because I use it….a lot.
Who knows?
Suffice it to say, from a body and interior stand point the car is nice and well done.
I need to do more homework and evaluate the mechanics.
I work a lot with Alfa Romeos.
Buying an Alfa with a good body out weighs the mechanics everyday.
Typically, anything mechanical can be fixed.
This car is on consignment, the dealer does not own it directly.
We'll see tomorrow.
My "A" buddy is going with me to look at it.
We'll see what happens.
Standby.
Thanks.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by vespaholic

@ oliverguy:
I guess because stuff happens.
A car that was restored 20-30 years ago then used would have patina.
My 1967 Galaxie that I restored in 1991 has patina now simply because I use it….a lot.
Who knows?
Suffice it to say, from a body and interior stand point the car is nice and well done.
I need to do more homework and evaluate the mechanics.
I work a lot with Alfa Romeos.
Buying an Alfa with a good body out weighs the mechanics everyday.
Typically, anything mechanical can be fixed.
This car is on consignment, the dealer does not own it directly.
We'll see tomorrow.
My "A" buddy is going with me to look at it.
We'll see what happens.
Standby.
Thanks.

Take a lot of detailed pictures and post them. You will be surprised at what people can spot. Put the camera on the lowest resolution so they will be easy or take them at high resolution and reduce the resolution for posting. You said they put a new battery in it, did they put it in with the correct positive ground? Turn on anything and see if the ammeter shows a discharge. If there is nothing to turn on jump from the cable attached too the starter motor to ground with a small bulb and a couple of wires. Any chance there was a fuse added and it is blown?


Charlie Stephens

[Mitch//pa]

we love pictures

[vespaholic]

@CharlieStephens:
I can only assume that put the battery in correctly as the car runs (or am I wrong?)
@Mitch:
I'll have pictures tomorrow.

I'm going there tomorrow morning at 7AM.
They are going to let me play around with it a bit.
So I'm going to put anti freeze and water in it and see what happens.
I'm going to try to get it running and drive it around the parking lot.
That should give me a chance to try the brakes.
We'll see.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by vespaholic

@CharlieStephens:
I can only assume that put the battery in correctly as the car runs (or am I wrong?)
@Mitch:
I'll have pictures tomorrow.

I'm going there tomorrow morning at 7AM.
They are going to let me play around with it a bit.
So I'm going to put anti freeze and water in it and see what happens.
I'm going to try to get it running and drive it around the parking lot.
That should give me a chance to try the brakes.
We'll see.

If they put the battery in with the wrong polarity it would probably run. If the generator survived the battery being installed with the wrong polarity it would probably burn out soon (see if you can smell burned wiring) but after it burned out the car would run probably fairly well off of the battery until the battery ran down. Also putting the battery in with the wrong polarity could have been what blew the fuse if there was one. Look for the fuse on top of the starter motor or buried somewhere in the wiring. Remember on the battery the slightly larger post is positive and should be connected to the ground. You should be able to see the battery through the metal access cover in the floor board.

Charlie Stephens

[vespaholic]

@Charlie: Thanks I'll check that.
They did note that the + battery cable needed to be replaced.
These guys are supposedly reputable so I'll hope for the best.

[Kevin in NJ]

No they are not going to be fixing the brakes and all the other stuff for just $2000.

They may make it work different, but safe?

To fix brakes properly you need specialized tooling and a lot of new parts. If they do not have the tools to arc the shoes to the drums and replace the drums with cast iron then it is not fixed. They may sort of stop, but there is a reason why a lot of people complain about the poor braking ablitliy of the A.

It is important to know and understand.
The Model A was designed from the factory to run 60 MPH.
The Model A has very good brakes (the limits are the tires) and can stop very good.
The Model A is a very confident car to run 60 MPH with factory parts.

If they tell you the car is only good for 45 MPH do not let them work on it. Do not believe anyone telling you different. Do not believe me, research the history of the car and how people drove them. You will have a new respect for the cars abilities.

I believe $4000 for a running driving tudor that is not rusty (and has not had bad fixes) is a good deal if it is not completely wore out. BUT you must expect to have to redo most all the mechanical parts to have a safe to drive car. This can be done over time as you get the cash and understand how to do a proper rebuild.

For a perspective, the Model A was mostly a precision built car. That was how Ford was able to build them so cheap and be so durable. You have to restore that precision to get a very very reliable and capable car.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Keep us posted vespaholic.

On the patina question, I see it all the time with Model As. By now the restorations on many of these cars can be 30, 40, 50 years old. I know on the tudor I had the guy did the work over a couple years finishing in '73. A decent job, painted frame, pro paint, etc. but at some point in his 30 years of ownership it moved lower on the priority list and was stored outside long enough to lead to the top drying out and cracking. Stuff happens.

In terms of locating an original car needing a restoration it is not always the best choice. A car needing everything is fine for the right person as is a high point full restoration on the other end of the spectrum. In thinking about this, I think each situation is individual but governed by the same few basics, which can differ with the car being considered as well as the owner.

What are one's mechanical abilities/desire to do some, all or none of the work the car may need.

How much time does one have (good to be realistic about this one) to devote to the hobby

How much money does one have/want to devote to the hobby?

Also, what's the end goal of the car. With the Tudor I had, I didn't have a lot of money to buy a fully restored car but I had enough to justify paying someone to do some heavy lifting as time was not as plentiful. High point car, heck no, but we put a lot of miles on it. I note that because if you are considering having the shop or another one do the work for you, you might be in the same situation now. I can see the logic of negotiating some or all of the work. Not to worry, there is always some little task to do on a Model A!

Having had a couple of show cars one thing I love about older restorations is the freedom of worrying about any little catastrophe like a stone chip or kid climbing up on the runningboard.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

To Kevin's point whether you use a shop or DIY, whoever inspects brakes & front end should know their stuff. We did not want to worry about safety, and that's most of it right there, along with good tires and shocks (makes a difference in cornering).

[C26Pinelake]

Still no pictures ??? Wayne

[Keith True]

If the body is nice then $4000.is a good buy,at least where I am.I know what I can get for A's here,but they mostly go to rodders.I sold a solid 31 Tudor a few years ago,it belonged to an old family friend.Solid,straight,but needed babbit and brake work.He drove it around town that way for over 40 years.A street rodder bought it,and then gave me the chassis after.I sold it for the woman for $6500.The A guys wanted me to get it running,take it for a ride,so they could evaluate and make an offer.It hadn't been run in three years.The rod shop that bought it asked if I would air up the tires and get it out of the barn so they could get up to it with a ramp truck.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Yep, when I bought my tudor it was my first Model A and my logic for spending four grand on a non running car was that it was rock solid, and fairly presentable in addition to my sense that it would not take much to get it running based on a little trust in the local guy I bought it from. . While I might prefer not too, I knew I could sell to a rodder in a heartbeat, for at least that, so no risk. Carb was dirtly - once home it took 15 minutes to get it running!!

[mike657894]

4k with good body sounds good. body work can really eat up a lot of project time and should be avoided. now the 2000 work and solve all those problems seems cheap for a shop charging mechanic hours. but they may have a guy they now does good fast work. sounds good and at those prices i dont think you can get screwed with the deal.

[mike657894]

but again if you have the money i have seen some really nice cars in my area for 10k or less ready to go. i only bring this up because my A was purchased by my grandfather. in similar shape as the 4k deal. And he never got the time to do much with it. It left me a great start to a really nice basic driver car because i would rather spend every available minute in the garage. But i feel bad for him as he wanted to work on the car and have something he could take the pride in working on. here is a craigslist add in my area. this just jumped to 9500 from 7500 im guessing the guy wants 7500 and was getting 5500 offers so he thought raising the price would help him get the 7500 he set out for. https://saginaw.craigslist.org/cto/5289391933.html