The Ford Barn

leatherback1929 · 09-15-2014, 02:42 PM

I replaced my 1929 Model A Head Gasket with one that I bought from Snyder's. After a few months I noticed that the coolant level was slowly going down and engine wasn't running well. I removed the plugs and noticed the two center ones were wet. So, I removed the head and noticed that the silicone bead that goes around the head stud holes were ok. But, the bead that goes around the center coolant passage went through the passage and didn't stay between the head and block all around the passage. Don't buy the Premium Head Gasket A-6051-M because it is designed incorrectly. The logo on the gasket has the letters G and H.Model A head gasket 002.jpg

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 09-15-2014, 03:41 PM

Well, before we get too far away from the table here, let's talk.

To begin with, are you certain the cylinder case (Block) and the Head were level prior to the gasket installation? Also, what was the RA finish of both those surfaces?? Those head gaskets are sensitive to the finish and the "straightness" of the mating surfaces, ...and I suspect what you are encountering is a result of one or more issues I mentioned. I cannot see much of your gasket but on the left side of the gasket, it appears the gasket sealer was never actually under compression from torqueing. I suspect that is also what you are finding with the center water port too. This would lead back to uneven mating surfaces.

One other thing to be aware of, is overtightening head stud nuts can distort a cylinder case deck. Good luck with this, ...and if anyone hasn't told you yet, Welcome to Fordbarn!!

Kohnke Rebabbitting · 09-15-2014, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leatherback1929

I replaced my 1929 Model A Head Gasket with one that I bought from Snyder's. After a few months I noticed that the coolant level was slowly going down and engine wasn't running well. I removed the plugs and noticed the two center ones were wet. So, I removed the head and noticed that the silicone bead that goes around the head stud holes were ok. But, the bead that goes around the center coolant passage went through the passage and didn't stay between the head and block all around the passage. Don't buy the Premium Head Gasket A-6051-M because it is designed incorrectly. The logo on the gasket has the letters G and H.Attachment 193713

Mr. Leatherback, you are very right.

In my Opinion, they are not useable. The ones that were tried to be fit, do not fit the Model T, or Model A. right.

The part that seals did not come out in the area it should have.

My observations are from first hand experience "ONLY".

leatherback1929 · 09-23-2014, 11:02 AM

Brent,

I assume by level your asking if the two surfaces were parallel when torqued in sequence and yes they were. The Ra of the block and head mating surfaces I would estimate at 125. The folks at Snyder agree that the silicone profile around the center passage is not correct.

Thanks

Mikeinnj · 09-23-2014, 01:57 PM

"The folks at Snyder agree that the silicone profile around the center passage is not correct.".....and what do the folks at Snyder's intend to do about this defective product? I bought one from them and now I am hesitant to use it after reading this post.

Fred · 09-23-2014, 02:14 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeinnj

"The folks at Snyder agree that the silicone profile around the center passage is not correct.".....and what do the folks at Snyder's intend to do about this defective product? I bought one from them and now I am hesitant to use it after reading this post.

I would call Brattons and see if they also agreed & were having problems with them..

Tom Endy · 09-23-2014, 02:20 PM

I have never been a fan of this type of head gasket since I had one fail due to delamination. The photo shows the head gasket sticking out the front of the engine. I had installed it just before a 1200 mile tour. When I got back from the tour I went to change the oil and noticed the head gasket malfunction. I pulled the head and saw that the gasket was in the process of failing completely at the #1 cylinder. Lucky for me. I would much rather replace a head gasket in my garage instead of alongside the road.

My recommendation is to stick with the FelPro head gasket many suppliers carry. Bratton's has them.

it is also important to re-torque the head bolts at several intervals shortly after a new head gasket is installed.

If you find water traveling up a head stud and accumulating around the nut. Remove the nut and put sealer around the threads and under the nut.

Tom Endy

Dick M · 09-23-2014, 03:16 PM

I twice attempted to use the silicone gasket as it was recommended for the Snyder 5.5 head. They both leaked over the serial number and down the block. I had my machine shop check my new 5.5 Snyder head for a even surface. It was perfect. I used a stock copper head gasket on my third try. I have it torqued to 55 lbs. It is been on the car for about 18k miles with out incident (no leaks).

tbirdtbird · 09-23-2014, 04:05 PM

Everyone I know around here has had the silicone gasket fail and the people around here will no longer use them.

Stick with the FelPro 7013 copper and use Permatex copper spray 2 good coats, re-torque several times (we do the initial torque, then after 10 min, then 30 min, then 25 miles, then 50 then 100). We have had very good success with this method. We re-torque hot but I realize some people think this is wrong. To each his own; it works for us, and that is how I have re-torqued head gaskets for 60 yrs

Of course it is assumed that the deck and head are true. If you go to the trouble to remove a head, have a machine shop shave it

Mike · 09-23-2014, 04:20 PM

Ok copper gasket rolled edges up or down ??
Mike

hardtimes · 09-23-2014, 04:26 PM

Hey leatherback,
Check the back files, as this problem has been discussed priorly. Back then, some here got their panties in a wad, about 'bad mouthing' someone's product ..some such bs. YOU are lucky that that is all that happened (blown gasket). When same gasket blew on my B, I was unfortunate enough to be putting my A off line for couple months. While at rest, unknown to me, the head gasket gave out between #2 and #3. Coolant was drained/sucked into #2 and sat that way for couple months !! My luck, the piston came to rest at bottom of stroke and damage to cylinder wall , from coolant, was created. Costly lesson, indeed

Tom Endy · 09-23-2014, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

Ok copper gasket rolled edges up or down ??
Mike

Most people recommend the gasket be installed with rolled edges up. The thinking is that if the edges wear into the metal surface it is much easier to have the head milled than the block.

Tom Endy

glenn in camino · 09-23-2014, 07:41 PM

I always use the copper clad head gaskets along with a liberal application of Copper Coat.

leatherback1929 · 09-24-2014, 07:43 PM

Sorry, I forgot to state that the block and head machined faces which the gasket is between were each within .003in flatness. Snyder did send me a Copper Head Gasket free of charge.

Thanks

SeaSlugs · 09-24-2014, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn in camino

I always use the copper clad head gaskets along with a liberal application of Copper Coat.

I second this! I do this to modern engines that have twice the compression and RPM generated with no issues. I use it on everything from headgaskets, valve covers, cam plate seals, intake and exhaust gaskets of all material from cardboard to copper to steel clad gaskets.

Tom Wesenberg · 09-25-2014, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leatherback1929

Sorry, I forgot to state that the block and head machined faces which the gasket is between were each within .003in flatness. Snyder did send me a Copper Head Gasket free of charge.

Thanks

That was good of Snyder's to send you a good copper gasket for free. Spray both sides with Copper Coat and retorque several times, and you should be good to go.

brito36 · 09-25-2014, 01:32 PM

I have used the Fel-Pro head gaskets for the past fifty years and never had any problems with them. Be cautious when someone mentions of 'new and better'. Nothing like the original equipment designed by Ford.

OL JENNY · 09-25-2014, 03:17 PM

What is the advice if you have the premium gasket on your 5.5 head and it is working fine. Do you make a winter project and switch to a copper gasket on your terms, or do you trust that the premium will hang in there? My head is holding torque, and no leaks, but I don't want to be stranded on a tour.

Tom Wesenberg · 09-25-2014, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OL JENNY

What is the advice if you have the premium gasket on your 5.5 head and it is working fine. Do you make a winter project and switch to a copper gasket on your terms, or do you trust that the premium will hang in there? My head is holding torque, and no leaks, but I don't want to be stranded on a tour.

I would leave it, but carry a copper head gasket under the seat.

SteveB31 · 09-25-2014, 09:38 PM

Also , the "Best" brand grey headgasket used with copper coat works very well.

09-23-2014, 11:02 AM	#4
leatherback1929 Junior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Panama City Beach, FL Posts: 20	Re: Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket Brent, I assume by level your asking if the two surfaces were parallel when torqued in sequence and yes they were. The Ra of the block and head mating surfaces I would estimate at 125. The folks at Snyder agree that the silicone profile around the center passage is not correct. Thanks

09-23-2014, 01:57 PM	#5
Mikeinnj Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 1,262	Re: Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket "The folks at Snyder agree that the silicone profile around the center passage is not correct.".....and what do the folks at Snyder's intend to do about this defective product? I bought one from them and now I am hesitant to use it after reading this post.

09-23-2014, 03:16 PM	#8
Dick M Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ukiah, CA Posts: 477	Re: Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket I twice attempted to use the silicone gasket as it was recommended for the Snyder 5.5 head. They both leaked over the serial number and down the block. I had my machine shop check my new 5.5 Snyder head for a even surface. It was perfect. I used a stock copper head gasket on my third try. I have it torqued to 55 lbs. It is been on the car for about 18k miles with out incident (no leaks).

09-23-2014, 04:05 PM	#9
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket Everyone I know around here has had the silicone gasket fail and the people around here will no longer use them. Stick with the FelPro 7013 copper and use Permatex copper spray 2 good coats, re-torque several times (we do the initial torque, then after 10 min, then 30 min, then 25 miles, then 50 then 100). We have had very good success with this method. We re-torque hot but I realize some people think this is wrong. To each his own; it works for us, and that is how I have re-torqued head gaskets for 60 yrs Of course it is assumed that the deck and head are true. If you go to the trouble to remove a head, have a machine shop shave it __________________ '31 180A

09-23-2014, 04:20 PM	#10
Mike Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ASTON, PA. Posts: 725	Re: Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket Ok copper gasket rolled edges up or down ?? Mike

09-15-2014, 02:42 PM	#1
leatherback1929 Junior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Panama City Beach, FL Posts: 20	Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket I replaced my 1929 Model A Head Gasket with one that I bought from Snyder's. After a few months I noticed that the coolant level was slowly going down and engine wasn't running well. I removed the plugs and noticed the two center ones were wet. So, I removed the head and noticed that the silicone bead that goes around the head stud holes were ok. But, the bead that goes around the center coolant passage went through the passage and didn't stay between the head and block all around the passage. Don't buy the Premium Head Gasket A-6051-M because it is designed incorrectly. The logo on the gasket has the letters G and H.Model A head gasket 002.jpg

09-15-2014, 03:41 PM	#2
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,520	Re: Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket Well, before we get too far away from the table here, let's talk. To begin with, are you certain the cylinder case (Block) and the Head were level prior to the gasket installation? Also, what was the RA finish of both those surfaces?? Those head gaskets are sensitive to the finish and the "straightness" of the mating surfaces, ...and I suspect what you are encountering is a result of one or more issues I mentioned. I cannot see much of your gasket but on the left side of the gasket, it appears the gasket sealer was never actually under compression from torqueing. I suspect that is also what you are finding with the center water port too. This would lead back to uneven mating surfaces. One other thing to be aware of, is overtightening head stud nuts can distort a cylinder case deck. Good luck with this, ...and if anyone hasn't told you yet, Welcome to Fordbarn!! __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

09-23-2014, 04:26 PM	#11
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	Re: Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket Hey leatherback, Check the back files, as this problem has been discussed priorly. Back then, some here got their panties in a wad, about 'bad mouthing' someone's product ..some such bs. YOU are lucky that that is all that happened (blown gasket). When same gasket blew on my B, I was unfortunate enough to be putting my A off line for couple months. While at rest, unknown to me, the head gasket gave out between #2 and #3. Coolant was drained/sucked into #2 and sat that way for couple months !! My luck, the piston came to rest at bottom of stroke and damage to cylinder wall , from coolant, was created. Costly lesson, indeed

09-23-2014, 07:41 PM	#13
glenn in camino Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camino, CA. Posts: 3,086	Re: Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket I always use the copper clad head gaskets along with a liberal application of Copper Coat.

09-24-2014, 07:43 PM	#14
leatherback1929 Junior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Panama City Beach, FL Posts: 20	Re: Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket Sorry, I forgot to state that the block and head machined faces which the gasket is between were each within .003in flatness. Snyder did send me a Copper Head Gasket free of charge. Thanks

09-25-2014, 01:32 PM	#17
brito36 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Marengo. Illinois Posts: 262	Re: Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket I have used the Fel-Pro head gaskets for the past fifty years and never had any problems with them. Be cautious when someone mentions of 'new and better'. Nothing like the original equipment designed by Ford.

09-25-2014, 03:17 PM	#18
OL JENNY Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 223	Re: Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket What is the advice if you have the premium gasket on your 5.5 head and it is working fine. Do you make a winter project and switch to a copper gasket on your terms, or do you trust that the premium will hang in there? My head is holding torque, and no leaks, but I don't want to be stranded on a tour.

09-25-2014, 09:38 PM	#20
SteveB31 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Englewood, Colorado Posts: 1,372	Re: Leaking Model A Premium Head Gasket Also , the "Best" brand grey headgasket used with copper coat works very well.