The Ford Barn

Brent1969 · 12-20-2016, 08:01 PM

I have a 1929 model a truck and I am having trouble with it not starting .
It has always started with no problem . Yesterday I tried starting it and it turned over like normal , I let off of the starter button before it fired . Then when I tried again in a few seconds there was no sound and it did nothing . I checked the fuse is good , the battery is good . However I tried later on at night pressing the button again a few times still nothing so I stopped . I got out of the truck and noticed a very small puff of smoke apparently coming from the starter . I touched it and it felt warm . Is the starter shot or is something going into the starter jammed ? Anyone got thoughts ?
Thanks
Brent

holdover · 12-20-2016, 08:51 PM

I am not aware of your mechanical ability, but if it was me here is what I would do. vehicle in neutral with brake on! First I would confirm that the battery is good and has the appropriate voltage and is fully charged, I have a battery tester that test both with and without load, if the battery is good. Next I would check to make sure that all battery connections and cables are secure and clean as required. If you have a cutoff switch make sure it is working properly by testing voltage on both sides with the battery tester. Next I would place the crank in to make sure that there isn't anything preventing the engine from turning over. I would not try to start the engine, just see if it is locked.(key in off position) if the engine turns remove the crank, next I would check the starter by doing the following, I would depress the starter rod and turn it to see if it is a contact problem if still no action I would remove the starter, three bolts, starter rod and one battery connection. In my situation I would get one of my extra starters, install it and start the vehicle, Next I would take the dead starter to the work bench and remove the starter switch and check the contacts If defective I would clean or replace. While it is on the bench I would remove the band covering the brushes and inspect them by removing the tension springs removing the brushes from holders and visually inspecting the brushes and connections, remove the end plate, check for bushing play, remove the armature clean and inspect etc etc. Again I am not aware of your mechanical ability, but with four model As I find it is good to have a few spare working parts to keep them on the road . I keep an extra carb, Dist, Starter and generator on the shelf, as well as plugs ...

Brent1969 · 12-20-2016, 08:57 PM

Thanks so much . I will try these ideas . What internet sites or sites are the best place to purchase replacement parts such as you have mentioned ?
Thanks again .

Marshall V. Daut · 12-20-2016, 09:01 PM

Before you do anything, try to hand crank the engine. If it won't turn over, your starter's Bendix drive is jammed against the flywheel's ring gear teeth, a very common occurrence in Model A's. If the engine is locked up because of the starter, turn off the ignition key, put the transmission into 3rd gear, release the hand brake, and with your back against the rear of the car, rock the car back and forth until you hear a "CLUNK!" from the area of the starter. That means the starter drive has released. Then try to start the engine.
If, however, the engine is not locked up, it may, in fact, be that your starter gave up the ghost, as suggested above. Then follow "holdover's" advice for checking out the starter.
But do the simple thing first: determine if the starter is locked up.
Marshall

Jacksonlll · 12-20-2016, 09:20 PM

Put it in third gear and push like hell backwards. Not forward. A friend pulled is front bumper off pushing it forward. When you start your car push hard on the button and keep your foot down hard until it starts. If you push it and let it up for a second and push it again before things have settled down, it may jam again. Good luck. This is a common problem.

Tom Wesenberg · 12-20-2016, 09:38 PM

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Where exactly did the smoke come from?
If it came from the switch, then I'd remove the switch.
If it came from the starter, then I'd remove the starter.

2 and 4 already gave you the good advice you need to fix it.

Marshall V. Daut · 12-20-2016, 09:48 PM

I wasn't there, but I am guessing the poster tried to use the starter multiple times. If the Bendix drive is locked against the ring gar, this may have overtaxed the starter and started cooking it, hence the puff of smoke. Touching the starter case will tell the poster if that is so. If it's hot to the touch, smoke won't be far behind. Hopefully he stopped before any lasting damage was done to the field coils or armature. Model A starters are tough animals, but if this one was on its last legs anyway, trying to engage the starter over and over in a short period of time while it was locked may have been the final straw. TBD...
Marshall

Synchro909 · 12-20-2016, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent1969

Thanks so much . I will try these ideas . What internet sites or sites are the best place to purchase replacement parts such as you have mentioned ?
Thanks again .

Every one will tell you to go to get parts. May I suggest you give at least a rough indication of your location on your profile as the best answer for you may well depend on where you are.
Here are a few anyway:
http://www.mikes-afordable.com
http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com
www.brattons.com
http://www.macsautoparts.com
Then there's Burts, Arizona Model A (480) 782 0266 and others

3.6rs · 12-21-2016, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacksonlll

...A friend pulled is front bumper off pushing it forward. ...

How ?

BILL WILLIAMSON · 12-21-2016, 07:11 AM

Brent1969,
If ABSOLUTELY nothing happens, BANG the starter with a hammer, if it then works, that's an indicator of worn out BRUSHES.
You mentioned a puff of SMOKE, "maybe" the bushings are worn & the armature is shorting out on the FIELD coil retainer blocks???
These 2 "quickie" tests can help narrow down what the problem is.
Bill W.

holdover · 12-21-2016, 07:05 PM

a friend of mine told me many years ago that there were only two tools that you really needed, a hammer and a bigger one. I have come to find out that he was absolutely correct!

12-20-2016, 08:01 PM	#1
Brent1969 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2	1929 Model A starter problems I have a 1929 model a truck and I am having trouble with it not starting . It has always started with no problem . Yesterday I tried starting it and it turned over like normal , I let off of the starter button before it fired . Then when I tried again in a few seconds there was no sound and it did nothing . I checked the fuse is good , the battery is good . However I tried later on at night pressing the button again a few times still nothing so I stopped . I got out of the truck and noticed a very small puff of smoke apparently coming from the starter . I touched it and it felt warm . Is the starter shot or is something going into the starter jammed ? Anyone got thoughts ? Thanks Brent

12-20-2016, 08:51 PM	#2
holdover Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: SW Virginia near the Blue ridge Parkway Posts: 674	Re: 1929 Model A starter problems I am not aware of your mechanical ability, but if it was me here is what I would do. vehicle in neutral with brake on! First I would confirm that the battery is good and has the appropriate voltage and is fully charged, I have a battery tester that test both with and without load, if the battery is good. Next I would check to make sure that all battery connections and cables are secure and clean as required. If you have a cutoff switch make sure it is working properly by testing voltage on both sides with the battery tester. Next I would place the crank in to make sure that there isn't anything preventing the engine from turning over. I would not try to start the engine, just see if it is locked.(key in off position) if the engine turns remove the crank, next I would check the starter by doing the following, I would depress the starter rod and turn it to see if it is a contact problem if still no action I would remove the starter, three bolts, starter rod and one battery connection. In my situation I would get one of my extra starters, install it and start the vehicle, Next I would take the dead starter to the work bench and remove the starter switch and check the contacts If defective I would clean or replace. While it is on the bench I would remove the band covering the brushes and inspect them by removing the tension springs removing the brushes from holders and visually inspecting the brushes and connections, remove the end plate, check for bushing play, remove the armature clean and inspect etc etc. Again I am not aware of your mechanical ability, but with four model As I find it is good to have a few spare working parts to keep them on the road . I keep an extra carb, Dist, Starter and generator on the shelf, as well as plugs ...

12-20-2016, 08:57 PM	#3
Brent1969 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2	Re: 1929 Model A starter problems Thanks so much . I will try these ideas . What internet sites or sites are the best place to purchase replacement parts such as you have mentioned ? Thanks again .

12-20-2016, 09:01 PM	#4
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,112	Re: 1929 Model A starter problems Before you do anything, try to hand crank the engine. If it won't turn over, your starter's Bendix drive is jammed against the flywheel's ring gear teeth, a very common occurrence in Model A's. If the engine is locked up because of the starter, turn off the ignition key, put the transmission into 3rd gear, release the hand brake, and with your back against the rear of the car, rock the car back and forth until you hear a "CLUNK!" from the area of the starter. That means the starter drive has released. Then try to start the engine. If, however, the engine is not locked up, it may, in fact, be that your starter gave up the ghost, as suggested above. Then follow "holdover's" advice for checking out the starter. But do the simple thing first: determine if the starter is locked up. Marshall

12-20-2016, 09:20 PM	#5
Jacksonlll Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC Posts: 1,686	Re: 1929 Model A starter problems Put it in third gear and push like hell backwards. Not forward. A friend pulled is front bumper off pushing it forward. When you start your car push hard on the button and keep your foot down hard until it starts. If you push it and let it up for a second and push it again before things have settled down, it may jam again. Good luck. This is a common problem.

12-20-2016, 09:38 PM	#6
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: 1929 Model A starter problems Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Where exactly did the smoke come from? If it came from the switch, then I'd remove the switch. If it came from the starter, then I'd remove the starter. 2 and 4 already gave you the good advice you need to fix it.

12-20-2016, 09:48 PM	#7
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,112	Re: 1929 Model A starter problems I wasn't there, but I am guessing the poster tried to use the starter multiple times. If the Bendix drive is locked against the ring gar, this may have overtaxed the starter and started cooking it, hence the puff of smoke. Touching the starter case will tell the poster if that is so. If it's hot to the touch, smoke won't be far behind. Hopefully he stopped before any lasting damage was done to the field coils or armature. Model A starters are tough animals, but if this one was on its last legs anyway, trying to engage the starter over and over in a short period of time while it was locked may have been the final straw. TBD... Marshall

12-21-2016, 07:11 AM	#10
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: 1929 Model A starter problems Brent1969, If ABSOLUTELY nothing happens, BANG the starter with a hammer, if it then works, that's an indicator of worn out BRUSHES. You mentioned a puff of SMOKE, "maybe" the bushings are worn & the armature is shorting out on the FIELD coil retainer blocks??? These 2 "quickie" tests can help narrow down what the problem is. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

12-21-2016, 07:05 PM	#11
holdover Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: SW Virginia near the Blue ridge Parkway Posts: 674	Re: 1929 Model A starter problems a friend of mine told me many years ago that there were only two tools that you really needed, a hammer and a bigger one. I have come to find out that he was absolutely correct!