The Ford Barn

Lawson Cox · 04-19-2017, 05:09 PM

Okay fellows, I need your help again. (Not unusual. LOL)

I am trying to clean up old wires

to determine color patterns in order to tell what goes where. Dirty wires are common to the hobby don't you know.

What is the best solution to use? Some pretty bad, others not so bad.

petehoovie · 04-19-2017, 05:11 PM

Lawson,

Did you get your horn problem fixed???

JSeery · 04-19-2017, 05:32 PM

I've had trouble with the same thing and sometimes it is very hard. First off I guess I would ask if your sure you really need to know the color coding? If you are replacing it, it goes end to end and the wiring diagrams will give you what the color should be. You can try wetting the wires with water or thin oil and looking for a protected section that's not quite so faded.

What are you trying to accomplish, replace one wire at a time or install a new harness?

rotorwrench · 04-19-2017, 06:04 PM

If they are cloth covered wires, the colors tend to fade out over time. Rhode Island Wire coats their wire with lacquer so it will last longer but I haven't seen any others that do that. I use heat shrinkable markers on the ends for aircraft wire. They don't use color coding in aviation. They mark a number code on it that corresponds with the wiring diagrams.

On the old cars I make my own wiring diagrams since the OEM ones are lacking in certain information. At lease that way I have a better idea what wires go where.

Lawson Cox · 04-19-2017, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petehoovie

Lawson,

Did you get your horn problem fixed???

Still working on it, trying to bring out colors to trace wires easier.

Lawson Cox · 04-19-2017, 07:36 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

I've had trouble with the same thing and sometimes it is very hard. First off I guess I would ask if your sure you really need to know the color coding? If you are replacing it, it goes end to end and the wiring diagrams will give you what the color should be. You can try wetting the wires with water or thin oil and looking for a protected section that's not quite so faded.

What are you trying to accomplish, replace one wire at a time or install a new harness?

Trying to locate a short.

Lawson Cox · 04-19-2017, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

I've had trouble with the same thing and sometimes it is very hard. First off I guess I would ask if your sure you really need to know the color coding? If you are replacing it, it goes end to end and the wiring diagrams will give you what the color should be. You can try wetting the wires with water or thin oil and looking for a protected section that's not quite so faded.

What are you trying to accomplish, replace one wire at a time or install a new harness?

Trying to trace wires to locate a short. Some places have two wires attached to one pole.

FortyNiner · 04-19-2017, 07:53 PM

I found that having a wiring diagram with the original wire color codes was a great help to me. As roto mentioned, the colors certainly fade over time. However, if I know that the horn wire is blue with a white tracer, for instance, I can easily distinguish it from the headlight wiring which may be solid green. It is all relative. In addition, knowing where the connections are supposed to run often helped with the process.

alanwoodieman · 04-19-2017, 07:54 PM

I have had a little luck with spraying the old faded wire with lacquer to bring out the colors

JSeery · 04-19-2017, 08:03 PM

Have you tried cutting part of the wire loom back?

Dec211975 · 04-19-2017, 08:54 PM

Lawson,

You should be able to use a wire tracker ( tone generator ) to find your short, I believe Home depot stocks the Ideal brand unit. Here is a generic brand one on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ADHQCIO?psc=1#Ask
Just remember to disconnect your battery first, (I don't think there is a horn relay that would need to be powered on your truck).

Regards,
Brian

koates · 04-19-2017, 09:04 PM

Lawson, do you know what a "short" is ? Have you fixed your horn problem yet ? You don't need to trace your wire colours but just do some testing with a test light or multimeter. Where are you up to with this ? Is your horn rod and button OK or not. Regards, Kevin.

cmbrucew · 04-19-2017, 09:22 PM

Kevin
An old lawyer NEVER lets you know what he is up to.
Bruce

JSeery · 04-19-2017, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koates

Lawson, do you know what a "short" is ? Have you fixed your horn problem yet ? You don't need to trace your wire colours but just do some testing with a test light or multimeter. Where are you up to with this ? Is your horn rod and button OK or not. Regards, Kevin.

Good point, somewhere I got the idea he was replacing wiring! If it is the horn ground wire to the light switch and it was shorted the horn would be blaring! Might be an open.

koates · 04-19-2017, 10:28 PM

Lawson, Yes very true what Bruce said in post #13 about old lawyers. Stretching the job out so as to charge more for the time. You are beating around the bush with this simple horn problem. Need to separate the systems and pinpoint the problem, so do this check now. You already have the headlight switch disconnected from the bottom of the steering column. Look into the top end of the switch and note the centre brass spring loaded round contact, which is where the horn rod end makes contact. Take a short length of wire (jumper wire ) and touch one end of it on to that brass contact and then connect the other end of the wire to ground bare clean metal on the chassis or engine block. The horn should then blow. Just do that and NOTHING ELSE and report back pronto the test results and then we can go on from there. Forget tracing wiring and working out the bloody colours which is only complicating the problem for you. We need to fix this this year. LOL. Regards, Kevin.

Lawson Cox · 04-19-2017, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koates

Lawson, Yes very true what Bruce said in post #13 about old lawyers. Stretching the job out so as to charge more for the time. You are beating around the bush with this simple horn problem. Need to separate the systems and pinpoint the problem, so do this check now. You already have the headlight switch disconnected from the bottom of the steering column. Look into the top end of the switch and note the centre brass spring loaded round contact, which is where the horn rod end makes contact. Take a short length of wire (jumper wire ) and touch one end of it on to that brass contact and then connect the other end of the wire to ground bare clean metal on the chassis or engine block. The horn should then blow. Just do that and NOTHING ELSE and report back pronto the test results and then we can go on from there. Forget tracing wiring and working out the bloody colours which is only complicating the problem for you. We need to fix this this year. LOL. Regards, Kevin.

Y'all have me pegged for sure. LOL

The only thing I know about electricity is that it will hurt you or make you hurt yourself. The only thing I know about wiring is sending a Telegram. (See how outdated I am) That's why I am totally skinning my ignorance here and asking for help from those that are far more knowledgeable.

I have tried Kevin's jumper wire suggestion but NO HORN, I am not sure I made good contact. Have to take the little lady to the doctor tomorrow, but will re-test it after we get home, and report back. I'm not beating around the bush, by the way. I have to find a bush first.

Thanks for all your help. Big time. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks, so I appreciate your patience.

Lawson

koates · 04-20-2017, 01:37 AM

Lawson, You need to make sure your jumper wire test has good connection to ground, ie CLEAN METAL. If still not working then remove the horn cover by taking out the centre screw and pry cover off and then with a test light (you do have one don't you ?) connect between ground and either one of the wires on the connecting block inside the horn. Just one of these connector terminals should light up your test light. Test your test light directly across the battery to make sure IT IS WORKING. Report back. Tell your Mrs to get herself to the doctor. Old Fords more important. Regards, Kevin.

Lawson Cox · 04-21-2017, 05:34 PM

Look into the top end of the switch and note the centre brass spring loaded round contact, which is where the horn rod end makes contact. Take a short length of wire (jumper wire ) and touch one end of it on to that brass contact and then connect the other end of the wire to ground bare clean metal on the chassis or engine block. The horn should then blow. Just do that and NOTHING ELSE and report back pronto the test results and then we can go on from there.

Okay. I have done that, and the horn does blow. Only one horn though, but I know how to fix THAT.

Next ?

JSeery · 04-21-2017, 07:01 PM

Yea Lawson!

koates · 04-22-2017, 03:28 AM

Lawson, Good boy !! Next is to test the horn rod and button circuit. You have a multimeter ? If so set the dial to ohms X ONE or the continuity test with the beeper. Touch both meter leads together to test meter is working. One meter test lead connected to the outside metal tube of the horn rod. The other test lead connected to the contact on the bottom of the horn rod tube. Press the horn button and a reading should occur on the meter or the beeper sounds. If it does this then the horn rod is OK.. If no reading on the meter then there is an open circuit (a break in the connection ) inside the horn rod or a bad contact up the top at the horn button contacts. Test this and report back. Regards, Kevin.

04-19-2017, 05:11 PM	#2
petehoovie Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 8,156	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires Lawson, Did you get your horn problem fixed??? __________________ The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... *"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!"* "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0

04-19-2017, 05:32 PM	#3
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires I've had trouble with the same thing and sometimes it is very hard. First off I guess I would ask if your sure you really need to know the color coding? If you are replacing it, it goes end to end and the wiring diagrams will give you what the color should be. You can try wetting the wires with water or thin oil and looking for a protected section that's not quite so faded. What are you trying to accomplish, replace one wire at a time or install a new harness?

04-19-2017, 06:04 PM	#4
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires If they are cloth covered wires, the colors tend to fade out over time. Rhode Island Wire coats their wire with lacquer so it will last longer but I haven't seen any others that do that. I use heat shrinkable markers on the ends for aircraft wire. They don't use color coding in aviation. They mark a number code on it that corresponds with the wiring diagrams. On the old cars I make my own wiring diagrams since the OEM ones are lacking in certain information. At lease that way I have a better idea what wires go where.

04-19-2017, 07:53 PM	#8
FortyNiner Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: u-rah-rah-Wisconsin Posts: 1,137	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires I found that having a wiring diagram with the original wire color codes was a great help to me. As roto mentioned, the colors certainly fade over time. However, if I know that the horn wire is blue with a white tracer, for instance, I can easily distinguish it from the headlight wiring which may be solid green. It is all relative. In addition, knowing where the connections are supposed to run often helped with the process. __________________ 19 and 49 F1 - jes' like Henry II built 1946 Deluxe - as Henry built it

04-19-2017, 07:54 PM	#9
alanwoodieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate SC Posts: 2,964	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires I have had a little luck with spraying the old faded wire with lacquer to bring out the colors

04-19-2017, 05:09 PM	#1
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Cleaning up old electrical wires Okay fellows, I need your help again. (Not unusual. LOL) I am trying to clean up old wires to determine color patterns in order to tell what goes where. Dirty wires are common to the hobby don't you know. What is the best solution to use? Some pretty bad, others not so bad. __________________ Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer to the end, the faster it goes. It is better to be seen, than viewed. "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm".

04-19-2017, 08:03 PM	#10
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires Have you tried cutting part of the wire loom back?

04-19-2017, 08:54 PM	#11
Dec211975 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Monroe, Wi Posts: 247	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires Lawson, You should be able to use a wire tracker ( tone generator ) to find your short, I believe Home depot stocks the Ideal brand unit. Here is a generic brand one on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ADHQCIO?psc=1#Ask Just remember to disconnect your battery first, (I don't think there is a horn relay that would need to be powered on your truck). Regards, Brian

04-19-2017, 09:04 PM	#12
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,079	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires Lawson, do you know what a "short" is ? Have you fixed your horn problem yet ? You don't need to trace your wire colours but just do some testing with a test light or multimeter. Where are you up to with this ? Is your horn rod and button OK or not. Regards, Kevin.

04-19-2017, 09:22 PM	#13
cmbrucew Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: North of sandy ago, CA. Posts: 2,064	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires Kevin An old lawyer NEVER lets you know what he is up to. Bruce __________________ Works good Lasts long time

04-19-2017, 10:28 PM	#15
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,079	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires Lawson, Yes very true what Bruce said in post #13 about old lawyers. Stretching the job out so as to charge more for the time. You are beating around the bush with this simple horn problem. Need to separate the systems and pinpoint the problem, so do this check now. You already have the headlight switch disconnected from the bottom of the steering column. Look into the top end of the switch and note the centre brass spring loaded round contact, which is where the horn rod end makes contact. Take a short length of wire (jumper wire ) and touch one end of it on to that brass contact and then connect the other end of the wire to ground bare clean metal on the chassis or engine block. The horn should then blow. Just do that and NOTHING ELSE and report back pronto the test results and then we can go on from there. Forget tracing wiring and working out the bloody colours which is only complicating the problem for you. We need to fix this this year. LOL. Regards, Kevin.

04-20-2017, 01:37 AM	#17
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,079	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires Lawson, You need to make sure your jumper wire test has good connection to ground, ie CLEAN METAL. If still not working then remove the horn cover by taking out the centre screw and pry cover off and then with a test light (you do have one don't you ?) connect between ground and either one of the wires on the connecting block inside the horn. Just one of these connector terminals should light up your test light. Test your test light directly across the battery to make sure IT IS WORKING. Report back. Tell your Mrs to get herself to the doctor. Old Fords more important. Regards, Kevin.

04-21-2017, 05:34 PM	#18
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires Look into the top end of the switch and note the centre brass spring loaded round contact, which is where the horn rod end makes contact. Take a short length of wire (jumper wire ) and touch one end of it on to that brass contact and then connect the other end of the wire to ground bare clean metal on the chassis or engine block. The horn should then blow. Just do that and NOTHING ELSE and report back pronto the test results and then we can go on from there. Okay. I have done that, and the horn does blow. Only one horn though, but I know how to fix THAT. Next ? __________________ Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer to the end, the faster it goes. It is better to be seen, than viewed. "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm". Last edited by Lawson Cox; 04-21-2017 at 10:35 PM.

04-21-2017, 07:01 PM	#19
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires Yea Lawson!

04-22-2017, 03:28 AM	#20
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,079	Re: Cleaning up old electrical wires Lawson, Good boy !! Next is to test the horn rod and button circuit. You have a multimeter ? If so set the dial to ohms X ONE or the continuity test with the beeper. Touch both meter leads together to test meter is working. One meter test lead connected to the outside metal tube of the horn rod. The other test lead connected to the contact on the bottom of the horn rod tube. Press the horn button and a reading should occur on the meter or the beeper sounds. If it does this then the horn rod is OK.. If no reading on the meter then there is an open circuit (a break in the connection ) inside the horn rod or a bad contact up the top at the horn button contacts. Test this and report back. Regards, Kevin.