Transmision and Rear End Fluid question.

[Not George]

I just fired my car yesterday! Very exciting!
It is very obvious it has not been serviced regularly and I plan to change all of the fluids. I am assuming the trans and rear end will be pretty mucky, is there any way I can flush these before filling with new fluid? What should I use?
Also will 90 weight gear oil suffice?
Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance, Marty

[Greg Jones]

Hey Marty-If you are in the Mile High City you should get to know Steve Becker at Bert's Model A. Located at the SE corner of intersection of I25 and I70, off the Washington Avenue exit. They can advise you on how to flush and also have the correct replacement fluids. I am afraid 90W is not an acceptable replacement fluid, need the heavier stuff.

[Christoph]

Hi Marty
Good idea to change fluids.
NO WAY to flush the rear-end...
(Once you will take it apart, you will find out why it is to be cleaned with fuel and a toilet-brush...)
Please dont use 90W which is way to fluid
Buy 600W at the vendors ....

Have fun with your car
Christoph

edit :
use that 600W in the steering, the gearbox and the rear-end

[kpreed]

Welcome!
90w is NOT made for vintage trannys, only modern styles, you should use 600w in them and also rear ends. I use STP in mine, but that's me. Good LUCK!
Ken

[pat in Santa Cruz]

search this forum for threads on 600w and transmission fluid. You'll have enough reading to keep your brain gears spinning for days.

[RonC]

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These are the modern equivalents to the Ford transmission, rear end and steering box oils:

Mobilgear 600 XP 680
BP Energol GR-XP 680
Castrol Alpha LS680
Shell Omala 680
Texaco Meropa 680

The ISO Viscosity is 680 weight which is approximately 140 plus SAE Viscosity

[Terry, NJ]

I once cleaned out a Ford 8N tractor by using a propane torch on the case to make the fluid runny. Afterwards, I put some fuel oil in and drained it out after a couple of days It helps to turn the rear end, Jack it up so the wheel is off the ground and can be turned. Do not use the engine to turn it. It will probably splash fuel oil all over everything including your brakes. As far as oil is concerned, we just had a big discussion about oils for the Trans and rear. The oil/grease has to be quite sticky and thick. Why? cause it slows the gears down when you're shifting (No synchromesh) and it won't leak out of the imperfections in the sealing surfaces of your Trans and rear. One guy suggested using Lucas "Hub Oil". That was pretty much shot down. Another said 100% STP, another suggested 50% STP and 50% lucas Oil Stabiliser. I'd probably stick with the suggested brands and weights for now. But always remember, the best oil of the 1930s is not as good as the worst oil made today. Brattons and other parts houses sell oil too, in the quantities you'll be using. Someone said go see Bert and he'll fix you up. And you wouldn't want to know a better guy. I was there last year.
Terry

[Fred K-OR]

Marty, you could use kerosine to clean your tranny. Just drain the old oil, put is a some kerosine and then run it for a little while to work it around in the tranny. Drain it, put in new 600 W oil and you should be good. Don't think it would be good to use kerosine in the rear end because like mentioned above, it may run into the brake drums. But if you just drain the rear end and refill it should work out OK.

Also like mentioned above, stop by and visit with Bert's. They can fix you up with just about everything you may need, both used and new stuff.

[Not George]

Thanks guys!
Went to Bert's and they set me up with the 600W. Changed all fluids and went for a SHORT drive. Steering is like wrestling a bear. When I jack it up it steers pretty easy. I'm going to take apart all of the tie rod ends etc. and clean and re grease every thing.
The carb is leaking like there is no tomorrow. I have a friend who thinks he may have one stashed I can have.

[Terry, NJ]

You just took a time trip to the 1930s! All cars of that era steer like Mack trucks, especially when you're used to modern power steering. You will hear things about putting F-100 steering boxes in place of the original, Anything to modernize the steering! The cheapest one is to just get used to it like grampa did. The second easiest is to buy a short pitman arm. These really work! I have one on my 30 Town Sedan. But check the roundness of the ball ends. Any ridges should filed off and maybe the ball replaced. Oh yeah, and make sure the tires are fully inflated.
Terry

[Not George]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

You just took a time trip to the 1930s! All cars of that era steer like Mack trucks, especially when you're used to modern power steering. You will hear things about putting F-100 steering boxes in place of the original, Anything to modernize the steering! The cheapest one is to just get used to it like grampa did. The second easiest is to buy a short pitman arm. These really work! I have one on my 30 Town Sedan. But check the roundness of the ball ends. Any ridges should filed off and maybe the ball replaced. Oh yeah, and make sure the tires are fully inflated.
Terry

Thanks Terry
I do think the car has been neglected in the lubrication department, and can be GREATLY improved with proper Inspection, cleaning, and lubrication, however, I do appreciate short pitman arm idea. This wouldn't be too far from stock.
They can be bought?

[Barney]

Hi, yes, Snyders A-3590-S for 33Bucks. Or do it yourself. The instructions you get is in the book from Les Andrews Mechanics Handbock Vol.2 on side 4-71.
Greetings Barney

[Terry, NJ]

In another similar thread they talk about the ball ends and out of roundness. The ball ends should not be more than .020 out of round or have ridges. I had one that was about .060 out. These ball ends are replaceable at minimal cost. The hard part is the drilling the old ones out and welding the new ones in. If the wear is minimal, just file it. Here again, talk to Steve at Bert's. Also take the tour of the whole shop and the yard outside and see whats available. If you don't have one, I'd recommend that you buy yourself an inexpensive 0-1" micrometer and/or a vernier caliper. These can be had in flea markets for under $10. This is necessary when you're assessing wear of parts. You're probably right about the lubrication situation. You shouldn't jump to any conclusions until this is cleared up.
Terry

Originally Posted by Not George

Thanks Terry
I do think the car has been neglected in the lubrication department, and can be GREATLY improved with proper Inspection, cleaning, and lubrication, however, I do appreciate short pitman arm idea. This wouldn't be too far from stock.
They can be bought?

[John LaVoy]

Lubriplate SPX 288 is a gear oil specifically made for straight cut gears and does not foam like the 600W being sold by the various parts places. It is a commercial lubricant we found it available at Applied Industrial Technology, but if you go to their website lubriplate.com they have a distributor locator feature.

Since switch to this product we have put several thousand miles on the car and the transmission would only take a single pump of fluid before it started running out. The car shifts beautifully.

[billybronco1]

Could you mean Lubriplate SPO 288

http://www.lubriplate.com/PDFs/PDS/6_4-SPO-Series.aspx

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by kpreed

Welcome!
90w is NOT made for vintage trannys, only modern styles, you should use 600w in them and also rear ends. I use STP in mine, but that's me. Good LUCK!
Ken

I like that STP idea - any other people used this? Do you run straight STP - I need to double clutch going into third and need to slow those gears down. I have no idea whats in there now but will drain it soon.

What did you use in the rear end?

[kpreed]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

I like that STP idea - any other people used this? Do you run straight STP - I need to double clutch going into third and need to slow those gears down. I have no idea whats in there now but will drain it soon.

What did you use in the rear end?

Hello,
Yes, I use straight STP in the Trans, I not done the rear-end yet, but it will be STP also. I double clutch too, I think it works fine, but do not expect to much from it. I was told about this from a another Model "A" guy.

[billybronco1]

Now how the heck do ya get that liquid glue into the little hole on the side of the tranny and about how much does it hold? I would like to hear a few more guys chime in on the STP idea - and what do they think?

[kpreed]

Hello,
I warm the STP in hot water to make it pore better, then through my funnel, fill the Trans, about 1½ pints.

[M2M]

The Australian company Penrite Oil makes a monograde 140W and 250W non-additive API GL-1 oil, which is sold in the USA, see:

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/product...id_products=83

[Louis]

I used straight STP for my trans. and rear end for the last two years, no problems, shifts good, I did go back to 600w this year, I read some where that STP alone should not be used as a lub, I cant tell the diff. they both work well.

[billybronco1]

So I wonder what the weight of STP converts too - we all know its very thick

[Purdy Swoft]

It was recommended to use straight STP as a gear lube in one of the model A magazines several years ago. I took it for gospel and put it in my 31 tudor. STP seemed to work fine at first but after several years I noticed that our sedan didn't shift nearly as well as our other model A's. I decided to replace the STP with the 600W offered by Snyders and see if it would make any difference. I removed both plugs from the transmission and after an hour or more, not one drop of the STP had drained out. I ended up using the heat gun on the transmission for 30 minutes or more before it liqufied enough to mostly drain out. After pouring in the Snyders 600W The gears shifted the way that they should.

STP is mostly a viscosity booster (thickener) . If used straight as a gear lube, after a few years it thickens. It has been said that some model A vendors make their own gear lube by mixing 140 weight and STP and call it 600W . I have used the mix lube with no problems but had problems with straight STP after a period of time.

Some make a big deal about gear lube and buy large quanities of certain brands of gear lube that they believe is closest to what Ford used in the day. I agree with Timothy Kelly, 600W doesn't mean 600 weight but was the part number. The actual weight of the gear oil that Ford used was closer to 250 weight. I understand that Snyders Gear lube is 250 weight and that is what I now use.

I've owned model A's since the spring of 1960 . As a teenager with a part time job after school, I didn't have a lot of money to pay shipping on some unheard of gear lube. I used 140-90 weight gear lube that I could get locally. I had good results and never a problem. I didn't start using the model A vendor 600W untill sometime after 1978 and never felt a difference.

Just to add a note. When adding lube to the transmission or backend , stop pouring at about an inch below the level of the fill plug. This practice will help keep gear lube off the brake lining and be less likely to leak.

[columbiA]

Back in the 50,s,when useing an A as a daily driver, I used 140 gear lube for trans in summer & 90 oil in winter.I used 90 lube in rear end all year round.At -20* or more,the 140 would be so stiff it was easy to stall the engine & hard to change gears.

[billybronco1]

Seems most places only sell a multi grade like 90-140 is that what you used and mixed half with STP

[M2M]

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Originally Posted by billybronco1

Seems most places only sell a multi grade like 90-140 is that what you used and mixed half with STP

Yes, most places sell only multi-grade like 90-140 but not all. Why not spend ten or fifteen dollars extra to have the correct oil shipped to you? I think if STP was designed for trans and rearends STP would promote it for that...they don't.

I don't understand why people decide to experiment or cut corners for the sake of $10.

[billybronco1]

If I could run down to my local store and buy it I would do it but I can not find this stuff any where and shipping from Australia is not cost effective

[billybronco1]

Okay never mind just found it local for $6.95 a quart for 600W at PV Antique & Classic Ford - Tewksbury, MA

[M2M]

As I said in my post further up the page, the oil I mentioned is sold in the USA, go to:

http://www.restorationstuff.com

then download their catalogue for free for the details. A 1 litre bottle costs $15 + shipping.

[willobs]

When this forumn said Lucas Hub oil was great I put it in 2 cars, am I the only one still happy with it? or waiting for trouble? sure cured my grinding.

[okieford]

I have the Lucas Hub Oil in my car. I am well satisfied with it. It shifts easily on the upshift and downshift. The tranny is pretty stiff at first on cold days but it will shift ok if I shift at a lower speed. After a mile it warms up and shifts easily again.

[billybronco1]

Does this just come in one weight and do you know what that weight is? Is this the correct pn - Lucas Oil 10088 Hub Oil

[willobs]

Part 10088 is what I used.

[billybronco1]

Do you use this is the rear end also ?

[willobs]

I used it in the rear end , trans and steering worked for me! others have had different results

[RonC]

Originally Posted by Timothy Kelly

With all due respect, I disagree with the above statement regarding oil viscosity.

The viscosity of the above identified oils is generally in the range of 200 to 250 weight oil. Oil in this weight range is quite thick and can be tough to pour in cold weather. I am not sure that anyone manufactures "600 or 680 weight" oil. If they did, it would be like peanut butter.

Typical manual transmission oil today is often found in the 85-140 weight range.

Transmission oil, at the time Model A Ford's were being produced, was known as "600W" where the 600W was the PART NUMBER, not the WEIGHT of the oil. The weight of that oil was in the 200 to 250 range, just as is the modern 680 oils.

Your correct Tim, The 680 weight is an ISO Viscosity which is approximately 140 plus SAE Viscosity

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by RonC

Your correct Tim, The 680 weight is an ISO Viscosity which is approximately 140 plus SAE Viscosity

Those flow charts are very general in nature and misleading. Look up specific lubricants and you will find just that. Look at the viscosity at 40 degrees Celsius as that is the closest to our operating temps. ISO 680 is actually a little heavier than SAE 250. Ford changed to SAE 250 in 1932 except in sub-freezing temperatures.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by M2M

The Australian company Penrite Oil makes a monograde 140W and 250W non-additive API GL-1 oil, which is sold in the USA, see:

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/product...id_products=83

I use Penrite for my tranny, rear end and Steering box -It is great never any problems. I also use Penrite anticorrosion in the Radiator and penrite SAE40 Gearbox oil in my 1910 Hupmobile transmision Karl

[billybronco1]

I decided to go with standard 600W as called for no sense in mixing different oils together as you can't drain it all out.

[eagle]

I use
lucas hub oil in my tranny, much, much better "feel" than Mac's 600w that I ran a year with. The Lucas has been in now for 6 mo. It does foam up some in hot weather so the slick feel will fade a bit when really hot but I'm very happy with it. The 600w I had was a foamy slimy mess when I drained it. The car had been sitting for several days too. I think there is a difference in 600w the different suppliers are selling, I know some that are very happy with what they got. I'm not recommending or arguing anything, just my 2 cents.