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Old 08-23-2014, 02:34 PM   #41
Old Henry
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Some progress! I decided to try pulling the plugs one at a time again and see if I could hear the knock through the very loud noise of the air rushing in and out of the plug holes. It about made me deaf but I could barely perceive the knock except on cylinders 1 and 5 that are both hooked onto the same offset on the crankshaft. That's at least a start to have narrowed it down to one of those two.
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Old 08-23-2014, 02:38 PM   #42
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
My thoughts since there is a noise and poor engine performance, it will require pulling a head off and see what's going on.

I can't see (in my mind) how changing jets, adding more choke, etc, would reduce a bearing/wristpin noise.
I didn't have poor engine performance except when I pulled the choke out enough to cause it when I was checking to see if it was just premature detonation which, along with larger jets, can be and is reduced by enriching the mixture. Of course, when none of that worked I realized it was something else that wasn't solved by any of that. Using high octane fuel can also reduce premature detonation. Tried that too without benefit.
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Old 08-23-2014, 02:45 PM   #43
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

So what's the noise like when you disconnect both wires to plugs 1 & 5? Does it sound any different than when you disconnect 2 & 6 or 3 & 7 or 4 & 8? Cpmpression seems kinda low on all cylinders.

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Old 08-23-2014, 02:47 PM   #44
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

The compression numbers seem a bit low, but as they are all similar it is probably something to do with the test technique rather than all 8 cylinders having a problem.

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Old 08-23-2014, 03:01 PM   #45
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Use a long screw driver or a metal rod to your ear and check each cylinder for noise at idle. If you have a stethoscope, so much the better. If you locate the offending cylinder, you will know it is a bearing. We had one of those in our shop a couple of years ago caused by an improper sleeved engine which allowed coolant into the oil pan which, in turn, shucked the rod bearing for that cylinder. Pulling the engine is always the best way to check lower end problems, and to see if the crank is scored. A knock may be as simple as a bad fan bearing. Pulling the choke out to change the noise is odd. It could be a broken valve spring which you can check by pulling the intake manifold. They can be hard to see, so look carefully. Let us know what you find.
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Old 08-23-2014, 03:04 PM   #46
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Compression spec in the operator's manual is 105-125 at sea level which translates to 70-83 psi at 5,000 feet where I live which all but in is within so the overall compression is OK, especially since no one cylinder varies drastically.
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Old 08-23-2014, 03:06 PM   #47
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

A good point well made.

I'm not used to making adjustments for high altitude.

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Old 08-23-2014, 03:08 PM   #48
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ View Post
So what's the noise like when you disconnect both wires to plugs 1 & 5? Does it sound any different than when you disconnect 2 & 6 or 3 & 7 or 4 & 8? Cpmpression seems kinda low on all cylinders.

Jack E/NJ
Knocking is reduced by pulling the sparkplug wire on either 1 or 5 and totally eliminated by pulling both.

What does it all mean?
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Old 08-23-2014, 03:10 PM   #49
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

99% sure it means you need to pull the motor and investigate the crank and bearings.

Sorry.

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Old 08-23-2014, 03:13 PM   #50
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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Use a long screw driver or a metal rod to your ear and check each cylinder for noise at idle. If you have a stethoscope, so much the better.
Tried to hear something with the stethoscope on the heads and couldn't hear anything. I'd have to try to get it on the side of the engine from below. Haven't done that yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supereal View Post
Pulling the choke out to change the noise is odd.
It works great for premature detonation which I thought it was initially.
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Old 08-23-2014, 03:15 PM   #51
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Your done.Time to perform surgery on that flattie.This is some internal engine failure not going to get better.Not a fun job with that particular model but you will overcome and report back as you usually do.Its not your first rodeo.

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Old 08-23-2014, 03:16 PM   #52
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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Knocking is reduced by pulling the sparkplug wire on either 1 or 5 and totally eliminated by pulling both.

What does it all mean?
Sounds like the bearing and / or crank journal is poopy in that location as both of those rods are connected to the same journal. If this is the case, the crank and rods will need to be properly reconditioned. For that, you will need to remove the engine.
If this engine was "rebuilt" by the same guy that "rebuilt" it in the past I'd strongly advise you have ALL of the rods and journals checked by a professional.
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Old 08-23-2014, 03:33 PM   #53
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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If this engine was "rebuilt" by the same guy that "rebuilt" it in the past I'd strongly advise you have ALL of the rods and journals checked by a professional.
It WAS kind'a pretty, though! Doc Roger as I remember. DD
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Old 08-24-2014, 12:41 PM   #54
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

By the sound, I think you will have the engine out of the chassis before it is fixed. Sorry for such a negative opinion. Now, prove me wrong and we will both be happy.
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Old 08-24-2014, 12:55 PM   #55
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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Compression spec in the operator's manual is 105-125 at sea level which translates to 70-83 psi at 5,000 feet where I live which all but in is within so the overall compression is OK, especially since no one cylinder varies drastically.
Correct, on a fresh rebuilt 8BA at 5350', I get 85 - 90 psi across the board (heads have not been shaved).

I wouldn't dream of running that engine until the oil passages and sludge traps had been cleaned out, in addition to whatever the crank/rods need. Pulling the engine is not that big a deal, you can have it out and on the stand in a day. I always have a lot of inertia, trying to figure a way around it, but in the end it's better to just bite the bullet.
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Old 08-24-2014, 01:18 PM   #56
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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Pulling the engine is not that big a deal, you can have it out and on the stand in a day. I always have a lot of inertia, trying to figure a way around it, but in the end it's better to just bite the bullet.
Thanks for the words of encouragement.
At this point my "inertia" that you speak of is greater than my desire to drive (and you know how much I love to drive). So, "Old Henry", will be getting a long deserved vacation from service unless Old Chuckles up the street has some confidence that he and I can fix this problem without removing the engine. That was just so painful the one time I've done it that I won't be doing that again for the foreseeable future. And I don't have a stand nor any knowledge of what to do with the inside of the engine even if I did. I'd have to haul it or send it to someone. . . . Just too much to face right now.

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice. It has been very instructive and supportive.
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Old 08-24-2014, 05:43 PM   #57
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Professor,
I know you live up in Utah but don't know how rural your town is. If you have Fordbarners in your area, now would be the time for them to rally to your support and arrive to help remove the engine a see what the problem is. One day of work and you might have an answer. If you are a member of the EFV8 club, maybe there is a club that some members could travel over for a day.

Now is the time to help a fellow Barner

John
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Old 08-24-2014, 05:49 PM   #58
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

What a bummer Henry, both our cars need surgery ,but it's no drama,just get the engine out and get into it,at least you are lucky living in the USA and can get parts easily,
The parts for the 33 engine have arrived at my boys place( thanks Fred ),
And
The repairs will be no problem.
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Old 08-24-2014, 06:41 PM   #59
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Old Henry, before you go to far pull the pan and those two rods, mic the crank, you might just get away with polishing the throw and installing new bearings
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Old 08-24-2014, 07:13 PM   #60
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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Old Henry, before you go to far pull the pan and those two rods, mic the crank, you might just get away with polishing the throw and installing new bearings
It sounds like its too late for a polish . With that much noise Its time to remove and have a closer look. May be someone close by can give you a hand. Wish I was there we have that puppy out and tore down in no time.
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