Lets burn natural gas in our cars

[mrtexas]

Natural gas @$2.54/MBtu is equivalent of $0.38/gal gasoline or crude at $16/bbl

[Seth Swoboda]

Great idea, now where can I get a conversion done cheap!

[Mike51Merc]

I posted about this in the E85 thread. CNG is a great fuel except for the fact that it takes extreme pressure to liquify it, and if you want enough to drive around a bit it needs to be compressed. A lot. There aren't many (any?) CNG filling stations around and you don't see many big rigs on the interstate carrying tankers of CNG.

Some municipalities run buses and police cars on CNG, but the vehicles are reinforced for safety and they have their own filling machines in their municipal garages.

I'd sooner do a veggie-fuel like my buddy did. He runs an 83 Mercedes, a Dodge Ram, and his home heating on used restaurant vegetable oil. It's free, but it's a part-time job to gather and process the stuff.

[1952henry]

Originally Posted by Mike51Merc

I posted about this in the E85 thread. CNG is a great fuel except for the fact that it takes extreme pressure to liquify it, and if you want enough to drive around a bit it needs to be compressed. A lot. There aren't many (any?) CNG filling stations around and you don't see many big rigs on the interstate carrying tankers of CNG.

Some municipalities run buses and police cars on CNG, but the vehicles are reinforced for safety and they have their own filling machines in their municipal garages.

I'd sooner do a veggie-fuel like my buddy did. He runs an 83 Mercedes, a Dodge Ram, and his home heating on used restaurant vegetable oil. It's free, but it's a part-time job to gather and process the stuff.

Not to quibble, but some towns/cities have rendering trucks that gather the used oil. Other places have many people who compete for this oil.

[coup34]

I would like to but do not want a tank in my trunk.

[Kens 34 PU]

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Originally Posted by mrtexas

Natural gas @$2.54/MBtu is equivalent of $0.38/gal gasoline or crude at $16/bbl

Great idea now, but let's not forget what natural gas was trading for a couple of years ago! What does $9/MMBtu equate to in cents/gal?

We have a short term glut in natural gas right now due to unseasonably warm weather and the recent boom in shale gas. Prices will go lower for a while, but don't expect it to stay this low. I've bought and sold natural gas for a living for almost 35 yrs and the only certainty in that business is the uncertainty!

As to bio-diesel, a buddy of mine has engineered and built bio plants around the world, and he says it's great as long as you don't mind driving up to a cruise-in and smelling like a french fry!

[roadster36]

I did a lot of conversions to CNG for our local utility.IMO in the long run it is not worth the effort and cost UNLESS it is a engine that can be modified to fully utilize the CNG. Without modifications you can expect 20-30% decrease in horsepower, problems mounting a large CNG cylinder that typically weighs in excess of 250 lbs, go through the CNG tank inspection process, then find a CNG filling station that is open to the public. If you run out of CNG on the road you are screwed unless you have a bi-fueled system. CNG typically works best in commercial transportation applications where the routes and miles driven are planned and regular. It is a very clean fuel, it is very easy on engines, and would be a great alternative if the infrastructure to support it is put in place.

[mrtexas]

Originally Posted by Kens 34 PU

Great idea now, but let's not forget what natural gas was trading for a couple of years ago! What does $9/MMBtu equate to in cents/gal?

We have a short term glut in natural gas right now due to unseasonably warm weather and the recent boom in shale gas. Prices will go lower for a while, but don't expect it to stay this low. I've bought and sold natural gas for a living for almost 35 yrs and the only certainty in that business is the uncertainty!

As to bio-diesel, a buddy of mine has engineered and built bio plants around the world, and he says it's great as long as you don't mind driving up to a cruise-in and smelling like a french fry!

$9 x 6.25 = $56/bbl or $1.33/gallon. The 6.25 factor converts Mbtu of natural gas to FOE bbls or fuel oil equivalent bbls. Divide by 42 to get $/gallon. I used to use that trick while scheduling refinery production runs at a large Gulf Coast refinery years ago.

Cramer of Mad Money has been cheerleading for 18 wheelers to run CNG. Honda has been selling a CNG Civic for some years. I wonder about the safety of high pressure 1,000psi plus CNG in a fuel tank.

[mrtexas]

Originally Posted by roadster36

It is a very clean fuel, it is very easy on engines, and would be a great alternative if the infrastructure to support it is put in place.

Yup, octane of CNG is very high 100+

[Tinker]

I'm game, its what Henry would have done. The Soy bean fuel man. Lp gas has been used in Europe for a while.

I would think it's just a carb conversion. Similar to fuel injection.

The knowledgable carb guys on here understand air fuel and can make it happen. Probably make some coin doing it.

[Jerry Parr WI]

Don't forget to add the motor fuel tax to both cases. I remember a case of two guys who were making bio-diesel and had the story written up in the newspaper. They got a knock on the door for failure to pay the proper taxes.

[Tinker]

Maybe producing it but lp you buy from the gas company so it should be good.

[Binx]

We used dual fuel CNG/Gas trucks when I was in the Air Force. Ran CNG until it triggered a low pressure switch then auto switched to gas. Lower power. Hard start in cold weather. Short range (bottle size). Most intimidating thing was filling the CNG tank, watching that gauge creep up to around 3000 psi (if I remember right) and imagining the destructive power if it ruptured.

Lonnie

[Tinker]

Is that any different then driving around with a gas tank at your knees? I'm not saying it's a end all, but worth a thought.

What is the numbers on performance and milage?

[Graeme / New Zealand]

I remember seeing a bumper sticker during to first "oil shock" in the seventies.

"Save gas fart in a jar".

GB

[roadster36]

I almost forgot that ! By the time we paid for the annual tax "sticker" for the front bumper the cost was about equal to gasoline.The real reason the company was doing the conversions was for the tax credits and the publicity. In the end it was quite an expensive lesson for them. Now they are buying CNG dedcated vehicles from several manufacturers with better results.I learned a lot in the process. One thing being-follow the money. The whole greenhouse gas uproar is really about money and the transfer of it to others that want yours.

[Tinker]

Well I guess it's more about politics...

Here we just converted the power company to natural gas from oil. I don't expect our electric bill to go down. I don't think cleaner fuel is a bad thing either.

[roadster36]

You are right IMO. I read in the WSJ where John Kilduff said that even if gas consumption in the USA dropped to zero, gas would still be where it is because of worldwide demand.I don't believe a word of it. The USA is exporting our oil to South America, Asia, and many other places. We used to import most of our oil now we are a net exporter. Gasoline useage is the lowest in 15 years in the USA, miles driven has been steadily dropping, and MPG per vehicle has been steadily increasing. Speculation in commodities is the main culprit eg: the ICE, a Goldman Sachs congolomerate specifically started in able to take advantage of the system that specializes in oil futures trading. The SEC is aware of them, the Fed's gave them their blessing. Without ICE and commodities futures trading oil would be 50.00 a barrel or cheaper. The system is rigged against Mom and Pop.

[FlatheadTed]

CNG was a big thing here in the 80s ,Its a great Fuel. I Fitted it to my wifes car her fuel bill was $5 a week .I still have the tanks and regulator .All of a sudden they ripped it out of all the cars .

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Ted you have to admit that CNG would not "pull a sick sailor off your sister". I put it in my XA Falcon v8 and had problems with cracked heads so I don't know if I got any financial benefit out of it in the long run. Holden sixes seemed to like the fuel though. It appears the systems dissappeared from cars and service stations as fast as they came. I suppose in the 90's petrol prices became more relative to pay rates (before going through the roof again). I saw a Mini 1000 with a cng system once....I wouldn't think it would have been worth it . LPG would be my choice today unless modern CNG sytems give you a power improvement. I remember getting a bigger fill on cold winter mornings rather than when it was warmer. But many people were happy with the stuff, especially fleet users and "point A to point Bers". As I said in the E85 post, cops hated it especially in a chase. The first thing you'd do is pull out the lever and put it to gasoline, even then the weight of that bloody big tank was a handicap.

GB

[David J]

Never did the CNG thing but I do have 3 old 2 cyl John Deere { 620 & consecutive early 630's } tractors that burn LP . No noticeable loss in power compared to gas ones . LP tractors have special pistons-higher compression . Fuel consumption is about the same as gas ones & the LPer's start at least as good as gas ones . Best part is the LP delivered here is under $2.00 @ gallon. We all know what gas costs .

[FlatheadTed]

I had my bottle out for testing ,it was located in the rear of in our S/W When the wife went in for filling.The car filled up with gas

Originally Posted by Binx

We used dual fuel CNG/Gas trucks when I was in the Air Force. Ran CNG until it triggered a low pressure switch then auto switched to gas. Lower power. Hard start in cold weather. Short range (bottle size). Most intimidating thing was filling the CNG tank, watching that gauge creep up to around 3000 psi (if I remember right) and imagining the destructive power if it ruptured.

Lonnie

[Barry-ct]

Ford had an option for a bi-fuel F-150's from 97-03. It had alot of specialized parts and the tanks were in the bed. Our town has 6 CNG Contours, but they have to be re-fueled 2 towns away at the CNG storage facility. We only have 3-4 commercial stations in Ct. to cover the whole state. Not a big incentive to convert. Our local Yellow cab co. just bought a new fleet of Ford Transits, Honda pilots and another specialty vehicle built for taxi use and they're all CNG. UPS and FedEx have a large fleet of CNG vehicles here.
As soon as it really catches on, they'll drive the price up where it will be no savings and tax it to death. Then the commodities traders will get in on it to drive the cost sky high and reap obscene profits. They've done it to oil and many other items. If you noticed the economy was in pretty good shape and then they drove the price sky high, the economy tanked and has been stagnant since. I know there was other factors involved, but that was one of the biggest reasons. And our previous administration looked the other way as they were all oil men. Amazing! Now we're in for it again, prices on the increase. I swear that somebody farts and they all go crazy and drive up prices. Nothing makes sense anymore.
I'll stop ranting and raving and get back to my old Fords...............