e85 fuel

[G.M.]

I thought e85 was 15% ethenol but it is 85%. With the problems showing up on the old Fords with 15% imagine trying to run on 85%. The attached link did testing on a car equipted to run on e85 and reg gas. G.M.
www.edmonds.com/fuel-economy/e85-vs-gasoline-comparison-test.html

[Barry-ct]

What we get today is gas in name only. All our old cars and trucks will soon be museum pieces. They won't be able to run unless heavily modified in some way.

[joel]

Interesting article; check out natural gas price on the sign..2.54.

[jack orchard]

Thanks for the heads-up. I assumed it was 15% ethanol, 85% gas. We're screwed.

[Ol' Ron]

Well we could run 12:1 CR or 10lbs of boost. But you'd be lucky to get 10MPG

[Lawrie]

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My son has a 1970 GM 6cyl torana here in australia,it has the stock eng and auto,he is a fiddler and has done a conversion to run it on the E85,said the economy was worse,and it was a pain in the cold,he set it up using an A/F meter so that he could get the carb right,
went back to straight petrol.
Also he was into the methanol from the dragster
Lawrie

[flatjack9]

When I was at the Detroit Autorama last week, one of the vendors was pushing natural gas for a fuel. He had a compressor that hooked up to your household natural gas which was used to fill a fuel tank. The compressor alone was $5000, then you'd need a tank and reprogram your fuel system. Claimed it would be similar to paying $1.45 per gallon of gas.

[rick r]

on a trip to the U S a couple of years ago, i mistakenly filled the 8 ba up with E85. got about a mile down the road before it hit the carb. felt like i had a plugged fuel filter. pulled the choke out about an inch and she ran fine. dont think the milage was great though. when i had burned about 1/2 the tank, i filled up with regular and all was well again. as for ethenol in regular, we have had 10% in our regular gas for several years. the old flathead runs great on it. have about 60,000mi on my 32 roadster with an 8ba. really dont think there is any great problem with 15% ethonol.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

The Thorton across the street from my house now sells:

1 Regular gasoline ( 10% ethanol)
2-E85 ( 85% ethanol)
3-E60 ( 60% ethanol) used when weather is below zero to start a E85 car ..
4-Premium ( could be 10-15% ethanol)

Note that the new Nascar engines are running E15 (15% ethanhol) or Green 15..

[Fe26]

From Wikipeadia

E85 is an abbreviation for an ethanol fuel blend of up to 85% denatured ethanol fuel and gasoline or other hydrocarbon (HC) by volume. E85 is commonly used by flex-fuel vehicles in the US, and Europe. Some of the benefits of E85 over conventional gasoline powered vehicles include the potential for localized production of fuel in agricultural areas. Another benefit is potentially reduced pollution emissions especially carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere which is an important element for adaptation to global warming.
Potential benefits of E85 are contested by some experts who point out that deriving gasoline from petroleum is a relatively inexpensive (i.e., more efficient) process, even including the transportation of oil and gasoline long distances. Large-scale production of ethanol may be cost-prohibitive; and may result in a net energy loss when taking into account all the energy required to make alcohol from starchy plants. Another drawback for E85 is that, in a liter-to-liter comparison, E85 has less energy content than conventional gasoline; 30% less energy for transportation by volume. On top of it extreme care should be taken before using E85 fuel in portable power generators, chain saws, lawn mower and other gas powered equipment. These tools are not generally designed to be used with a high content of ethanol and can go out of service quickly.
The U.S. became the world's largest fuel ethanol producer in 2006, Brazil remains a close second. U.S. consumers are on track to consume 138 billion US gallons (520,000,000 m3) of gasoline in 2008 (down from 142 billion US gallons (540,000,000 m3) in 2007) and approximately 9 billion US gallons (34,000,000 m3) of U.S.-produced ethanol plus perhaps another 800 million US gallons (3,000,000 m3) of imported ethanol. Fuel blenders have a strong incentive to use all this ethanol because they receive a 51¢-per1-US-gallon (3.8 L) subsidy (the blenders tax credit) from taxpayers. In addition, since February 2011, the price of ethanol has been less than the price of gasoline. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulations allow blended fuel to contain up to 10 percent ethanol. California regulations allow up to 5.7 percent blends. Minnesota law requires all gasoline to have an ethanol content of 10%, separate from the E85 blended fuel which is also available. Ethanol is showing up in all grades of gasoline everywhere as E10 which is 10% ethanol / 90% gasoline, other than e85 of course. The fact that ethanol is already in widescale production seems to discount the economic cost claims against ethanol. Data in the CIA world fact book show a forthcoming end to known oil reserves, at least based on total current proved reserves and consumption rates. Ethanol is providing one window of proved alternative fuel. Since the inception of ethanol blending nationally, cars have been designed to be ethanol proofed. The E85 flexfuel vehicles have been designed to run more efficiently than vehicles running on standard E10 or E20, but many drivers report satisfaction with using E85 in their vehicles which are ethanol proofed and designed for E20 efficiency.

We did this to ourselves, we burned all that oil and still we build cars that do 6-20MPG. I believe it to be true; our brains are exactly the wrong size, why else would we still do such dumb things when we have known for forty years we were running out of oil? Now our alternatives are reduced along with our spending power and the freedoms we once enjoyed will now cost a lot more, plus we have changed our environment for the worse. Some legacy to leave our grandchilden huh! Oh well, I'd better go and check my hat size...

[joe plumber]

We have E10 ,10% Ethanol where I live .No problems as of yet ,other than the price .

[G.M.]

If you have a stock old Ford when it gets to 85 or 90 outside you are going to see the problem with the 10% ethenol. Just start to check the the temperature on the fuel pump and carb. When you see 125 degrees on either one you got it. I live in Florida and had some 85 degree days over the past 4 weeks with 3 85 days in a row last week. I purposely drove my 39 about 75 miles a day to check the engine and fuel temperatures on close to the same route each day and cured the heat problem of the gas in all areas except the fuel pump and I'm sure I will have that fixed this week. It don't get that hot in some areas of the country and a lot of people don't drive these cars on hot days. I want to be able to drive mine anytime I want. When the engine runs in the 180 range with the vent open it don't even get warm inside the car while driving. G.M.

[Gary in La.]

No Fe26, we are not running out of oil. There's plenty of oil, just not the right mindset to allow drilling for it!!!

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

When I was at the Detroit Autorama last week, one of the vendors was pushing natural gas for a fuel. He had a compressor that hooked up to your household natural gas which was used to fill a fuel tank. The compressor alone was $5000, then you'd need a tank and reprogram your fuel system. Claimed it would be similar to paying $1.45 per gallon of gas.

I had a 1972 XA Aussie Falcon V8 and from 1980 to 1989 when I sold it .I ran it on Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) (NZ has reserves on Natural gas offshore) With the oil shocks of the 70's Service stations here in NZ in the north Island were all set up to pump the stuff into your cylinder which was mounted in the boot...oops trunk to you people. You got a govt grant to do a conversion. I could also run it on gasoline and switched it by means of a pull out lever under the dash.The engine died a second and then it cut in. A lot of the sytems were Italian where they had been doing this for years. I ran an American Impco system with a 92L Bogap tank which gave me 80 miles to the fill. CNG systems then weres gutless but LPG which was the other alternative fuel was better. I regretted not going for that. Unless technology has improved as far as power goes I would not be tempted again. CNG is also a dry fuel. Both my heads cracked over time. The heavy tank out back only made an car unassisted by p/s even more of a bear to drive. Just about all the service stations have now taken out their CNG bowsers but LPG has survived and is still used by fleet users such as cabs (and to fill the BBQ bottle) but hybrids are now becoming more popular. Back in early 80's the Police even used both alternative fuels. I remember hating the CNG fueled patrol cars as they were useless in a chase. We had the bosses on our as*es if we got caught using the petrol( oops gasoline) mode over the cng in those days when the Department was trying to save on fuel bills. I don't know of anyone who ran CNG in a flathead here, perhaps some of the other Kiwis here know.

GB

[Fe26]

Originally Posted by Gary in La.

No Fe26, we are not running out of oil. There's plenty of oil, just not the right mindset to allow drilling for it!!!

You're running out of oil. If you can't get access to it (for whatever reason; social pressures, cost of extraction or geo-polictics) then by definition you're running out. It might still be in the ground but what price will you pay to get it. Soon the cost of gas/bio/alternate fuels will be cheaper than oil, when that happens oil extracted for refining into petroleum products will slow down remarkably.

We are merely in a transition phase, this phase may take another decade to end. In the meantime governments are creating pathways for consumers to switch as painlessly as possible. As in any endeavour in life there are those who are 'early adopters' those who just 'go with the flow' and those who'll fight a losing battle until the end. Where an individual places himself on that spectrum dictates how well he will fare/adjust to the inevitable change that has already started.

[Milt/Las Vegas]

Originally Posted by Fe26

You're running out of oil. If you can't get access to it (for whatever reason; social pressures, cost of extraction or geo-polictics) then by definition you're running out. It might still be in the ground but what price will you pay to get it. Soon the cost of gas/bio/alternate fuels will be cheaper than oil, when that happens oil extracted for refining into petroleum products will slow down remarkably.

We are merely in a transition phase, this phase may take another decade to end. In the meantime governments are creating pathways for consumers to switch as painlessly as possible. As in any endeavour in life there are those who are 'early adopters' those who just 'go with the flow' and those who'll fight a losing battle until the end. Where an individual places himself on that spectrum dictates how well he will fare/adjust to the inevitable change that has already started.

If we're running out of oil how do you explain the the giant Bakke oil find in N.Dakota(more oil than all of the Arab countries combined).

[46ford]

Originally Posted by G.M.

I thought e85 was 15% ethenol but it is 85%. With the problems showing up on the old Fords with 15% imagine trying to run on 85%. The attached link did testing on a car equipted to run on e85 and reg gas. G.M.
www.edmonds.com/fuel-economy/e85-vs-gasoline-comparison-test.html

Isn't the solution to just not put E85 into your old Ford?

What am I missing?

[Mike51Merc]

Originally Posted by Milt/Las Vegas

If we're running out of oil how do you explain the the giant Bakke oil find in N.Dakota(more oil than all of the Arab countries combined).

It's Bakken, not Bakke, and there are a lot of lies in the internet that say there's a conspiracy to keep it untapped. Yes, there's lots of oil there (in shale which requires fracking), but the USGS estimates only about 1.6% can be extracted with current technology along with very high production costs. Also, most of it is in Canada, not the US.

The REAL problem is that oil wells here in N America aren't what they used to be and it costs us more to get it than the price of buying it from oil-rich nations. You don't tap into gushers like the Beverly Hillbillies did, unless they're three miles under water, which costs a lot of money to do.

Oh, the reason you get less MPG with ethanol is because there are less BTUs per gallon and you need a much richer fuel mixture. You'll also notice the price per gallon is less. The bottom line is dollars/mile which the commodities market will make sure is the same regardless of the fuel you burn.

[Fe26]

Thanks Mike.

Milt,
Yes, there is a lot of theoretical oil about. However when it comes to extraction there are no theoretical costs, only cold hard dollars. And the cold hard fact of the matter is, you can have that oil if you are willing to pay the price it costs to extract and refine it. But when alternative fuels are cheaper (by any measure) then the hip pocket dollars will flow their way.

[itslow]

Originally Posted by Gary in La.

No Fe26, we are not running out of oil. There's plenty of oil, just not the right mindset to allow drilling for it!!!

Originally Posted by Milt/Las Vegas

If we're running out of oil how do you explain the the giant Bakke oil find in N.Dakota(more oil than all of the Arab countries combined).

The rate the world uses oil makes it essentially a finite resource. Nature isn't creating new crude faster than its consumed. To think otherwise is foolish. As the easy to access oil reserves are consumed, it will also become increasingly more expensive to obtain.

A point will be reached when we've essentially "run out" of oil if we keep relying upon it as a primary source of fuel. Probably won't happen in your lifetime, but it will happen.

The sooner progress can be made to come up with viable (and hopefully green) crude oil alternatives, the better off the world will be. Remember, the planet is bigger than just us and our old Fords.

EDIT: Should have read the thread fully before replying. Mike51Merc hit the nail on the head.