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Old 12-17-2010, 07:20 AM   #1
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Default 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Hey guys new to posting to the ford barn. 25 years old from Pittsburgh.

Customers car. He wants it all stock. Just figured you guys would enjoy some sheetmetal work and the fiasco of new patch panels that i am going through. All the sheetmetal work is tig welded and as close to metal finished as possible.




needs typical patch panels but man is this car solid

mess







needs some sub frame work



gotta fix this hole.seems like ti was made with a chisel



tight gaps are important



see what i mean by tight?! see that little slit





this is gonna be a pain in the ass!!



the ol tape and bondo trick



fillin some random holes





some holes in the visor







some kinda mess from ages ago







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Old 12-17-2010, 07:23 AM   #2
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

and we are donnne



my guess was an antenna?









more random taped up holes i found.





some more damage





a few marks left from the stud gun









these are gonna be no fun. body line doesnt match to save its life

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Old 12-17-2010, 07:27 AM   #3
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

1 thing i learned is you can really beat 16 gauge sheetmetal.

heres another poorly made non fitting heater hole patch panel.



the mess im working with



fit



notice the extra 1/8 inch of bead



the blue line is how wide it should be.i hammered the hell outa the area on the other side of the blue line to flatten it out so the beads matched





the bottom piece was really no fun










what i ended up with
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:29 AM   #4
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

i really have no idea how it came out this clean but hey im not complaining!!

















next im onto the patch panels...joyyyy!!
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:30 AM   #5
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

wheel well time. customer decided to put the patch panels we had in for the wheel wells



trim trim trim

mess mess mess



subframe cracked and thin





cut it out!



patch



look mom no clamps!!! got a nice tight fit





welded up



didnt get a pic of the bottom trimmed down



doneeee



onto the wheel well next
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:32 AM   #6
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

wheel well patch sittin in place



some primer on the subframe and some weld-through primer on the lower part of the patch because i dont know if the patch gets spot welded to the subframe once ya wrap it around or not.



tacked in .

i usually dont work with that many tacks but for this one it seemed impossible not to. there were alot of variations in where the patch panel wanted to sit and where the og wheel well was so a ton of tacks it was





finished up!



for future reference it took a little more then 18 feet of tig rod to weld in the patch haha



another view

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Old 12-17-2010, 07:34 AM   #7
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Next side



more subframe rusty-ness





new piece of subframe with some shrinker stretcher action to mimic the stock piece



sitting in place

finished up the sub-frame welded up and primed. it was a fun piece to make with the curve in it



this quarter was pretty tweaked. Hard to see if the pic it took a good hit at one point






file hammer repeat to infinity



came out pretty nice the body line still need work



the quality of the panels hahahah



and we are tacked in

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Old 12-17-2010, 07:37 AM   #8
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

decklid

someone had a dance on this thing!!





most of this was stud gun work mostly all the dents were behind braces. and some shrinking hammer here and there

about half way through





its not 100 percent metal finished but its pretty damn nice in my book



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Old 12-17-2010, 07:43 AM   #9
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

got the patch panels from macs in the mail today. JUNK! same as the other ones just on a better piece of metal.


so it needed more subframe work nothing fancy or pretty here









heres the og piece of body line i have to re weld in after fixing the subframe.gonna keep as much of this around as possible because aparently it is impossible to remake .




im making my own panels now. so far i have a much nice start then what i got as a patch panel. i used a piece of 20 guage for the first run just to see what i could make it do and i like the results. switich to 18 gauge for the final product.

i used my commie bead roller some conduit and bruce springsteen on the ipod. wish i woulda started working on these in the begining of the day instead of messing with the patch panels.

i made this up in about 20 mins and quite happy once i get the hard line from the step die out i think ill be good to go





you can see i started to get the hard line out on the edge. pretty excited about this!!

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Old 12-17-2010, 08:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Nice work and nice narrative (--albeit a little crude with some of the unnecessary foul language!!!). Thanks for sharing.


You are correct that in most instances the commercially available patch panels are indeed junk. While I did not see it mentioned, I am sure you also found those inner fender patches did not have the correct shape stamped into them, nor is the beads like the originals. Truly sad for all the effort that goes into this area. I'm sure that you will probably fabricate those next time too just so you can make them look closer to original. I guess that is why they say "experience is something you get after you need it!" Next time your experience will let you be able to tell the customer that he will need to let you make them yourselves!!

On a side note if you don't mind me asking, did you do this project on a 'Time & Materials' cost to him, ...or did you quote a turn-key price for the whole project beforehand, --and if so, would you do it for the same price again now that you know what all was involved??

Again, nice job & thanks for sharing. (...and BTW, I could not get your website to open.)

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Old 12-17-2010, 08:10 AM   #11
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Update; kept trying and it finally opened so there must have been some cyberland issues due to 'cold weather'!

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Old 12-17-2010, 08:15 AM   #12
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Hats off to you on the work.Just glad im not footing the bill. RAY
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:37 AM   #13
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

You clearly do nice work, but I have a question.

Why did you do the whole wheel well patch?

There was only a little bit of metal at the bottom that was bad.

From my experience it is fairly quick to make and weld in a a patch at the bottom of the wheel well. When you consider the length of the weld to do the whole arc and the cost of the panels. In the end I think you use less time and materials to make your own patch and weld it in.

I have encouraged several other people to make their own patches. In each case they have been surprised with how easy and quick the job went.
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

WOW! Thanks for sharing, and looks like excellent work. What color(s) has owner selected/
Paul in CT
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:58 AM   #15
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Not a bad days's work!!!

Really looks great and so nice to see another Model A come back to life as an original.

Man, am I glad my 3 Model A's don't need patch panels!

Just curious, about how many hours to do this much work?
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:47 AM   #16
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Keep the updates coming. I think this is the first build thread I've ever seen on this forum, whereas on the HAMB there are litterly hundreds of them. Keep up the good work and as I said, keep the updates coming!!
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

It is nice to see a young guy like yourself really take hold of this kind of work and do such a great job. Your intense conscientious attitude and great interest makes this happen and you are to be highly commended. BUT, take it kindly from and older guy with three sons much older than you, be more discreet in the language you use. You don't need to impress anybody that way. Your fine work speaks volumes for you in a much more positive way. Keep up the great work and think twice about using those loose words, they will only detract from your acceptance by others and results in people looking upon you as a person of lesser class. You show exceptional talent and deserve to be highly respected for it. Good luck to you from an old body shop guy.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loumo View Post
It is nice to see a young guy like yourself really take hold of this kind of work and do such a great job. Your intense conscientious attitude and great interest makes this happen and you are to be highly commended. BUT, take it kindly from and older guy with three sons much older than you, be more discreet in the language you use. You don't need to impress anybody that way. Your fine work speaks volumes for you in a much more positive way. Keep up the great work and think twice about using those loose words, they will only detract from your acceptance by others and results in people looking upon you as a person of lesser class. You show exceptional talent and deserve to be highly respected for it. Good luck to you from an old body shop guy.

Well said Loumo.
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:39 PM   #19
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Thanks Brent. We need to encourage this kind of talent and interest which truly comes from the love of this kind of work. And what I see of your work Brent, you are a fine example of this. Keep it up.
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Some nice work Brent. Looks like the Coupe had all of the regular weak areas. The Tig does a nice job. I've got to learn to Tig. Only a Oxy-acetylene and Mig guy. Nice to see some metal finishing as well. Keep up the good work.

Here`s some picture of a 30 I`m working on that someone had brazed in sections of the Upper Quarter panel sections.

The Old Tinbasher. John Poole
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:16 PM   #21
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Ready to try fiberglass instead?
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

thanks for the criticism i appreciate it guys .changed some things to be more well spoken.

Brent i dont know if i would try to make the wheel wells myself . im sure if the customer was picky enough i would be .i would not know how to make a bead that big and the way the panel bends in at the front.

this project is strictly time.

thanks ray

Kevin .I did the whole wheel well because 1 .the subframe was trashed . thats the main reason. def less work puttin the new piece in then all of the hammer and dolly work to straighten the orig piece plus the metal was torn and thin around all the fender studs. wheel well install was about 5 hours to what ya see now.

1931. He mentioned a 2 tone light brown dark brown.

Tom .right now ill be in around 26 hours after i weld the passenger side wheel well in. thinking a hair over 35 to finish everything up that needs addressed .

Loumo .i appreciate the feedback!!

Tinbasher. ive never used the torch to weld but man is a tig amazing !i dont think i will ever use a mig on sheetmetal again if i can help it at this point.


more pics when i get some more work done.thanks alot guys!
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:21 PM   #23
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

I'm not a bodyman, but sure would have guessed a lot more time than you said to do that amount of work. Nice goin'
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:01 PM   #24
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VERY NICE!!!!

That is a lot of very nice work for only having 26 hours in it. I do not know what your hourly rate is but I think the owner is getting a very good deal. Most "Body Shops" do not know how to metal finish. They will just weld in pieces with a MIG and Bondo everything and call it good.

It is good to see this quality of work.

Chris
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:41 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinbasher View Post
Some nice work Brent. Looks like the Coupe had all of the regular weak areas. The Tig does a nice job. I've got to learn to Tig. Only a Oxy-acetylene and Mig guy. Nice to see some metal finishing as well. Keep up the good work.

Here`s some picture of a 30 I`m working on that someone had brazed in sections of the Upper Quarter panel sections.

The Old Tinbasher. John Poole

John,

You are a bit too modest in your postings and I'm sure some others would like to see some examples of the quality work you do on your web site.

http://www.tinbasher.com/order.html

I've seen a couple of your son's race cars and they are show quality.
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Old 12-18-2010, 02:30 PM   #26
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I have done about the same amount of work on my coupe, however, it has taken me about 4-5 times more hours. I cannot afford to hire myself.
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Old 12-19-2010, 08:15 PM   #27
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

heres what i did today

the wheel well is in and it fought every minute of it for some reason .oil cans here oil cans there what a pain but it came out nice in the end.





tomorrows mission pick up some 18 gauge and make the lower quarter patches and body lines!!
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:57 AM   #28
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Very nice work. Keep it up.
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:00 PM   #29
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Flop, you're an artist. it does my heart good to see that someone with both skill & pride in workmanship will be around to take care of these cars after I'm gone. keep us informed of the progress on this one!
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:24 PM   #30
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This guy is a artist , I wish to have his skill,
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:34 PM   #31
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Flop,
Wow! Thanks for sharing. Where did you get such knowledge of metal forming at such young age? Rick
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Old 12-20-2010, 09:33 PM   #32
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Nice work Mr. Flop.
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Old 12-20-2010, 09:40 PM   #33
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thanks fred

appreciate it chris and gerard!

hardtime it kinda came naturally. started messing with cars when i was 15 and got a 55 caddy that needed a ton . rust ,mechanical the whole deal. now ive been through 10 or 15 cars and it just progressed into what ya see .it takes time alot of patience and a sharp eye. I strive to do work like guys like bass kustom and steve sellers those guys are always rasing the bar !!

thanks michelle

heres what i got done today since noone can make a quarter patch that looks right



more info when i finish it completely
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:24 PM   #34
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Is that zincanneal or zincseal you are using?

These may be OZ names.

Is it DQ (drawing quality) also?
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:40 PM   #35
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pooch here its called galvanneal get it dirt cheap from the hvac supplier near by.

what do ya mean by drawing quailty?
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:56 PM   #36
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Yeh galvanneal sounds like same stuff as ours here.

DQ is annealed very soft.

It is hard to get, most of the zincanneal is high tensile.

Easy enough for swaging and straight runs, but almost impossible to contour/stretch/shrink shapes into it.
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Old 12-21-2010, 05:23 AM   #37
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Flop, would you mind post pictures of the tools you used to shape the body lines?

thanks
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Old 12-21-2010, 03:56 PM   #38
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you sir are truly a artist and work fast!why couldnt i ever find someone such as yourself when i needed something fabricated. keep up the good work !!!
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:33 PM   #39
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thanks guys

ive never had any problems with galvaneal pooch .


stock .mine.repop panel




alllll taacked in finally!!!





also tiged up some stress cracks behind the bracket that holds the support rod to the rad



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Old 12-22-2010, 12:00 AM   #40
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Super build thread! Nice to see (and show) not everybody needs a 55 gallon drum of Bondo. The language tends to stay bible-belt clean here, unlike the H.A.M.B., but don't let that get ya down, I didn't really notice it until commented on. I'd like to be a fly on the wall and listen to the language patrol when the proverbial body hammer/ dolly finger pinch occurs. My wife keeps a cuss-pot and occasionally uses the money to buy me repro parts. She figures a 2:1 return on investment.
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:59 PM   #41
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thanks mike!

yeah i can tell the language part now WOW!!! i agree i would like to hear with the hammer dolly finger pinch or a busted knuckle when the wrench slips.


but this is what ya get to do on xmas eve when you g/f doesnt tell ya shes going home for xmas



ill finish it up tomorrow.

Merry Christmas guys!!!
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:00 PM   #42
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HELLO Flop, Just keep the Great work up and just try to balance work and pleasure. It works every time. MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY A NEW YEAR. Don
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:38 AM   #43
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Flop, very nice work. Thanks for taking the time to document your progress and post it here. The bad thing is you have probably cost me some more money. I've been on the fence about buying a stud gun for a long time and now I think I'm gonna pull the trigger after seeing your body work.

Tell us more about the tools you are using if you have the time. Thanks!!
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:32 AM   #44
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I can save you some money my2nd40 and tell you that we don't own a stud gun and in almost 15 years of professional restoration on all the cars we have done, I have yet to see a need for us to own/use one. Allow me to explain...

A dent is nothing more than metal that has been stretched due to trauma. The correct way to repair the dent is to reverse the stretch in the same basic order in which the trauma was inflicted. Using a stud gun to attach a nail-sized stud to the metal and then jerked does not shrink the stretched metal but instead just restretches the metal in a concentrated area and thus only re-arranges the shape of the metal. To correctly repair a dent, the metal needs to be shrunk. Study the options and become proficient at one and you will likely find just a few small hand tools are all that is needed.

Now if you still feel the need to spot-weld a nail, consider taking a couple of small flatwashers and touch the edge to a grinder to create a flatspot. Now, this washer can be tack-welded to a panel. Next use a pair of Vise-Grip locking pliers to apply some pressure as you use a slapper or dolly to raise the dent.

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Old 12-25-2010, 12:05 PM   #45
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Thank you, this is a fantastic thread!
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Old 12-25-2010, 04:07 PM   #46
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Thanks Brent good tip on the washer!
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Old 12-25-2010, 05:27 PM   #47
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

I have to disagree Brent. Ya get some heat from the stud gun and ya get a shrink from that mixed with the pull from the stud.Even when ya weld something on you still gonna get distortion from the weld. stud gun was by far one of the best purchases ive had. doubled panels braces in the way etc . priceless. plus if you take the time to tack weld a washer on your def gonna damage that panel trying to get it off with a grinder. the stud gun really helps taking the under cut right against your weld ever wih a panel that you have full access to the back.





gotta do the front edge over since i couldnt make a nice break because of the bottom bead.tomorrows mission

thanks again guys!
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Old 12-25-2010, 06:35 PM   #48
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheet metal Work

Nice work Flop, I'd like to be a fly on your shop wall to watch and Learn your Procedures. I agree with you on the use of the stud gun, I have watched a local body man, use his, then hammers and dollies, when he finishes, hardly any body filler.

I hope you have Front or Rear fenders to fix, or Running Boards Many of us have them with Cracked and Split Front edges, along with holes. Some I have need lower sheet metal replaced, where The fender meets The running board. Most of us don't find good ones, or have the $$ to buy Metal Repos.
Keep the Photos coming, good Job, you are a "Master at what You Do".
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Old 12-25-2010, 06:37 PM   #49
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Nice work Flop! What did you do the second day?
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Old 12-25-2010, 07:05 PM   #50
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I have to disagree Brent. Ya get some heat from the stud gun and ya get a shrink from that mixed with the pull from the stud. Even when ya weld something on you still gonna get distortion from the weld. stud gun was by far one of the best purchases ive had. doubled panels braces in the way etc . priceless. plus if you take the time to tack weld a washer on your def gonna damage that panel trying to get it off with a grinder. the stud gun really helps taking the under cut right against your weld ever wih a panel that you have full access to the back.

Well, if you say so. Maybe I should come up and get some sheetmetal lessons from you!!

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Old 12-25-2010, 10:25 PM   #51
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Flop. I agree with you on the stud gun. Have used mine a few times and if used right it is a very handy tool to have. Excellent work your doing by the way. Keep us updated.
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:10 AM   #52
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Brent know this is going to sound like I'm taking sides...but I'm really not. Everybody has different ways of doing things...and I'm sure that the work you do is exellent. But don't try to blow someone elses candle out to make yours seem brighter. I don't know how old you are, but this young man is 25 yrs.old. I don't think you will find one person on this thread that would fault his work. I for one think the work he has shown us so far is top notch. If he can do the quality of work he is doing at 25 just think what he will be capable of at your age. All i'm saying is cut him some slack, he's definately not a butcher. All the best.

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Old 12-26-2010, 01:44 AM   #53
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

The only criticism I can hand you Flop is....

I wish you would use a sandblaster to clean the metal, where there are no repairs to be done.

I cringe at the 36 grit disc sanding of the wheel arch ridge.
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Old 12-26-2010, 02:43 PM   #54
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

All i can say is WOW. You do amazing work. No matter what people tell you about you language, or that they would do it a different way than you did, you sure know your doing. Keep up the good work, and keep the pictures coming. One of the best threads ive seen on this website.
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Old 12-26-2010, 03:00 PM   #55
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

thanks jazz. nothing to exciting in the shop really weld hammer grind repeat.

fenders are coming to the shop soon. also have new repoped running boards.

thanks ccw and zz

stop by any time brent.


appreciate it stan

thanks pooch appreciate the critism. it was a pretty wore out piece on a 4500 rpm sander def wasnt going at it with a grinder those will sand right out with a piece of 60 or 80

thanks logan!! def gonna keep on keepin on!!


heres todays work

when i made the patch panel there was no way i could use the sheetmetal break to get a clean edge because of the body line at the bottom so i had to cut the edge off and replace it with a piece i made on the break.



tacked in




where a stud gun really come in handy. metal brace and wood in the way .




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Old 12-26-2010, 03:42 PM   #56
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Looking good Flop. I wish I was closer so I could come and bug you.
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Old 12-26-2010, 03:57 PM   #57
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Ok Flop, I am not following you, how did the stud gun help you on that patch in the forward quarter panel? Also, how are you planishing your welds?

On the comment when you made the lower patch, in the jamb area wouldn't a pan break or a tipping wheel worked well in this instance to give you a clean line??

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Old 12-26-2010, 04:10 PM   #58
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hey brent stud gun helped raise the under cut area next to the weld .you know what i mean? the crater ya get right next to em if ya grind and then do nothing else?as far as planishing brent i use the snap on shrinkin hammer but not the shrinking end i use the smooth face because it has the largest face.


yeah i dont have the $$ for a pan break yet. i used a hand sheetmetal break to make it before i put the panel in but it went from ok to worse fast once i put it in and started making it match the original a metal.

my tipping die in on loan to my friend whos out of town for christmas!!!
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Old 12-26-2010, 04:26 PM   #59
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Hey Flop (BTW, is that your real name??) I think what you are calling an "undercut" is the term I am struggling with and not understanding.

The general term for a weld that has not been planished is a proud weld. As you well know to eliminate this, the weld is made and then planished using a hammer or slapper and also using a dolly or spoon backup with the dolly-on method. This not only flattens the weld but it strengthens it and it normalizes the molecules where you do not have warpage. What I am trying to figure out is, ...are you saying the weld is warping the sheetmetal on the edges --or is the "undercut" something caused by the grinding?

I'd bet you were ready to strangle your buddy when you needed those tipping dies and he had them locked up!! They would have made quick work out of it. Have you ever used a crescent wrench to tip with when you need to do a curve? That might have worked well here and then used a shrinker to take care of the excess.

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Old 12-26-2010, 05:45 PM   #60
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Flop, incredible work. I have a few questions. What size tungsten tip have you found that works best for this type tig welding? What type and size filler rod? I have been using .040 tip and .023 -6 mig wire, but I would be willing to try something else if it might make things better for me. Also, is it better to start the planishing while the weld is still hot/warm or do you wait for it to cool? I would love to read any tips you can post about metal work.
Keep up the impressive work and keep posting!
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:49 PM   #61
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Yo Flop, I have been in the sandblasting game for 35 years. so that is why I cringe at disc sanding panels.

That coupe paint looks pretty good.

I take it you do not have a sandblaster and I figure your old sand paper is clogging with paint and causing heat before you get to metal, as well as the sand marks in panel..

Try a heat gun and a sharp putty knife to melt paint off.

Then if you must, it will be a very light lick over with 120 grade.

Get a 2 inch wide putty knife and cut it back to about 1 1/2 inches LONG and round the edges off, so it is short and very stiff.

Heat the paint and you will know when it gets soft enough to peel off in sheets, way before any excess heat will warp panel.

Start on an angle with knife under paint and blow heat forward and keep going.

You would do that 1/4 panel in about 15 minutes.

Thick paint is best for heat, not so good with thin paint.

Some types of paint don't react too well to heat, then you must resort to stripper if you do not have a blaster.

If I have to strip a panel smooth, no blast profile for paint tooth, I run over with an orbital sander with worn out 36 grit.

Gives a perfect tooth for primer.


Here is one of my old videos. I will make a better one next time I have to blast and get dirty.

(apologies for work behind hand a bit, because I was holding cam with one hand while blasting and thinking the lens was getting peppered.

I will cover the cam with plastic next time for a better view).

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Old 12-26-2010, 06:04 PM   #62
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Wow Pooch, ...maybe it was a good thing your hand WAS there to protect the camera lens from ricocheting media!! I DO agree with your assessment regarding stripping using a disc.


One thing in FLOP's defense regarding the paint stripping is when doing a customer project, often times the 'how', --or 'what' he wants to do it is not an option. There are things we do that might cause others to question why we did it that way when the true answer is either we did not have the budget to do it the proper way, ...or the customer did not want it done that way.

30cab, check for a PM.

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Old 12-26-2010, 06:29 PM   #63
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Just to add, I did not use this plastic bottle blaster when I was doing it full time.

I sold all my industrial gear when I retired.

The bottle is just an example of how to make a clog free suction/gravity fully adjustable set up.
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Old 12-29-2010, 03:54 PM   #64
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just about finished up with the body today besides bending the edges over the subframe on the new patches.

the passenger quarter was the last piece.

really solid but the break where it wrapped under neath was gone

made a new piece for it





couldnt figure out how to make it in one long piece so 2 pieces it was



just about done except for the edge it still needs some more smoothing where it wraps into the wheel well



and we are just about done with the body!!

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Old 12-29-2010, 04:37 PM   #65
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Flop, great job and looks like a brand new A body.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:53 PM   #66
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Nice work Flop. I agree with you about the stud gun one of the best purchases I made also.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:20 AM   #67
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Awesome work as usual Flop. How's the Pontiac coming along? I noticed a few cameo shots in this thread.
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Old 01-01-2011, 01:03 PM   #68
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thanks again guys. not done yet still got some little stuff and fenders to fix

dash needs some extra holes filled thats the next small project .is the passenger side of the dash supposed to have the reveal in it .you can see it where the sanding marks are.if it not its a hell of a perfect creas put in some how .




heres a pic of what everyones been asking for. what tools i use to do this stuff. once again i have no compressor use a 4500 rpms sander and a 4 1/2 inch grinder with the rubber backer cut way down so ya get less grinder marks





Druss pontiac is being neglected havent touched it in months .
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:23 PM   #69
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Nice work Flop...
Keep us posted
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:50 PM   #70
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

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also tiged up some stress cracks behind the bracket that holds the support rod to the rad



Just a suggestion:

It appears you are working on an early '30. These firewalls had a bad habit about cracking around the radiator rod mounts. Ford later made a revision and added reinforcements to the back side of the firewall to help keep this from happening. You may want to think about adding something to reinforce this area. I have a early '30 Tudor that had this same problem and did not want it to re-occure so I reinforced this area when I did the repair.

Just a thought.

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Old 01-02-2011, 04:22 PM   #71
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Quote:
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Just a suggestion:

It appears you are working on an early '30. These firewalls had a bad habit about cracking around the radiator rod mounts. Ford later made a revision and added reinforcements to the back side of the firewall to help keep this from happening. You may want to think about adding something to reinforce this area. I have a early '30 Tudor that had this same problem and did not want it to re-occure so I reinforced this area when I did the repair.

Just a thought.

Chris
Yes, I didn't want to be the one that said something but since Chris mentioned it, this is true. Honestly, it appears the way this has been repaired will very likely allow the crack to return since there is no welded strength around the rivets and it appears the ending-hole was not drilled to eliminate the continued spreading of the crack.

Below is a few images showing the cracks drilled, vee-ed, and filled. The reinforcing plates are added to the back side and the 4 holes are plug welded and metalfinished smooth to look more like a spot weld. The firewall rivets are heated & bucked in with a 3X gun to entirely fill the firewall hole first, then it is ground nearly flat on the backside and then waffled. The reason it is done that way is so the shank of the rivet can be red hot during installation for maximum swelling. The waffle tool is designed to be used cold, so thus it is done in two stages.

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Old 01-05-2011, 12:17 PM   #72
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good tips guys

extra holes in the dash that gotta disappear









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Old 01-05-2011, 12:42 PM   #73
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Nice, what did you use for the plugs?
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Old 01-05-2011, 01:24 PM   #74
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

About to go through all the same exact repairs on the coupe. Wish I could just drop it off! I'll be referring to this post a whole lot!
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:40 PM   #75
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of course it went to the sandblaster on the snowiest day of the year



and this is what it looked like when it came back and headed back to its owner

this is just in epoxy primer no body filler



here is a short video of the car on youtube as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXVHPi9836c
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:52 PM   #76
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Yup. That's real nice. How many hours do you have in repairs?
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:45 PM   #77
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Quote:
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Ya get some heat from the stud gun and ya get a shrink from that mixed with the pull from the stud.

I saw at USA Weld a shrinking tip for a stud gun. I don't know if it will fit your gun.
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Old 03-02-2011, 07:28 AM   #78
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Jason I have between 40 and 50 hours into the car on the sheetmetal work.

Mike I have the shriknking tip it work well for a small shrink.
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:09 AM   #79
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2 separate customers sets of fenders i will be posting up soon

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Old 04-22-2011, 04:12 PM   #80
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Love your work and finished products.
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Old 04-22-2011, 05:52 PM   #81
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started on all the stuff today

bobs hood

some extra holes for some reason







other side



holes





doms fenders

i didnt like the patch that was in there so i put a new one in









about 3 more inches to go



stay tuned for more progress!
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:25 PM   #82
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

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I am sure glad that is not my car being used as a workbench! You gotta be kidding!
Geez! No thanks.
It might be his car. And he might be able to fix whatever happens to it if something does.
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:31 PM   #83
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thats my car. calm down. i would never do that to a customers car.
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:09 AM   #84
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Oh!! that's the good taste of something made by yourself, That´s have another value!!
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:49 AM   #85
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You have a lot of talent for a 25 year old. I keep looking at all the pictures over and over hoping some of your talent will rub off on to me.:-) Love the work. thanks for posting
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:50 AM   #86
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Awesome work there Flop. Thanks for sharing. I'm looking forward to the fender repairs.
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Old 04-24-2011, 12:01 PM   #87
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

thanks everyone glad yu guys are enjoying the work if ya have any questions feel free to ask

finished up the first set of fenders







can figure out why these holes were here





small patch





a small tear where the fender support goes



took out the reinforcement thing by drilling 2 spot welds. cleaned up the rust and hit it with weld thru primer





a tear on the edge of the fender







a new reinforcement bracket for the fender where it meets the running board
again both hit with weld thru primer







one more full set to go!
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:02 AM   #88
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

broken motor mount. guess 80 or so yeras of service took its toll.







these fenders looked killer until i went to start on filling the old taillight holes





ohhhh its so nice of you to plastic up both sides of the fender to hide some mess



a little hammer and dolly work to get thing baack to normal before cutting out the area with the holes.



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Old 05-04-2011, 01:05 PM   #89
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Very nice welded seam
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:13 PM   #90
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

You are doing nice work.

I have a couple of suggestions based on my experience.

You really want to do all the front and rear fender repairs on the frame with the brackets set up. You can lock in deformities that will make fender installation almost impossible. I had to undo some beautiful bodywork on a pair of fenders I bought. They were done off the frame and would not fit at all!!!

It appears you were putting in a flat piece of metal at the tail of the fender. The 30-31 fenders are a compound curve in that area. The metal should be formed first before welding in place.

From looking at your welding, do not try a TIG welder unless you can afford to buy one. You are not far from putting in panels with little or no grinding- just some hammer on dolly planishing. You are likely to find a TIG welder to be a wonderful change.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:40 PM   #91
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Flop,

Nice work! What size tungsten an filler rod are you using? The front fender, plus other
parts look hot/too much rod, for an easy clean-up.

Dudley
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:58 PM   #92
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

very inspiring you keep tackling the hard stuff and come up looking good! what is weld thru primer and where do you get it?
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Old 05-04-2011, 05:52 PM   #93
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Fixing the rear motor mounts, now you're just showing off.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:58 PM   #94
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thanks guys.

dj the tungsten is 3/32nds filler is prob. double the size of a .023 piece of mig wire. i use alot of rod for sure. i like to make sure i get it over lapping the seam to act as a filler i dont know why just have the best results that way.as far i heat i am set on 70 amps and have never been into the pedal id say more then half way.

thanks kevin . the front fender with the tear on the edge was was tacked in place on the car and the matched to a perfect unaltered a fender and both had the same curve in the front .

rolling... weld thru primer is a primer you can weld through.i put it in areas like behind brackets that get spot welded etc.

thanks mike
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:57 PM   #95
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

VERY NICE WORK!!!!

Where were you when I was doing the sheetmetal on my car????

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Old 05-07-2011, 05:56 AM   #96
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i would have to kno the date you were doing your sheetmetal chris!

finished up the rear fenders with the bad holes. i guess these were on a roadster because he said the whole in the top of the passenger side was for a step.












other fender

4 really reaaly bad condition front fenders with spare tires holes next and a set of splash pans.









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Old 05-07-2011, 11:34 AM   #97
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

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i would have to kno the date you were doing your sheetmetal chris!

finished up the rear fenders with the bad holes. i guess these were on a roadster because he said the whole in the top of the passenger side was for a step.

you guys are probably sick of all this model a sheetmetal by now sorry for the uninteresting posts as of late.

Flop !
Your posts are probably one of the most interesting there are on FordBarn !!

Keep up the good work, and keep posting !!
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Old 05-07-2011, 11:56 AM   #98
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I agree. They say a picture is worth a thousand words but along with your commentary to help understand what we are seeing is an added bonus!
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Old 05-07-2011, 12:10 PM   #99
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Hi Gent's are there any stronger words then only " perfect job"... this guy is top.

Flop may thanks sharing this with us.

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Old 05-07-2011, 01:23 PM   #100
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Don't you dare stop!!!
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Old 05-07-2011, 02:14 PM   #101
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I second all the above. I get upset when you take TOO long in between posts! With me doing a coupe I get extra pleasure seeing what you are doing.
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:28 AM   #102
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well these are a set of splash aprons that looked decent until i got em back from the blasters.sand blaster always finds all kinds of nice things for me to fix!





this was all lap tacked i guess you could call it.



i ran a grinder down the slit to make it a butt weld









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Old 05-23-2011, 07:18 PM   #103
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heres a fender i did recently with the hole for the tire.

yeeeeah i dont even know what causes damage like that.















gettin there









rear brace where it meets the running board







new pan had to be put in since the old one has seen better days





45 spot welds later







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Old 05-23-2011, 08:18 PM   #104
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This is one of the best posts I have seen in a long time. Having done all of this kind of work, I studied each picture carefully. Superb! It is great seeing these repairs done correctly. Tons of work, but it is done right when you are finished-no doubts, no bondo, no cheating. Just solid and beautiful. Well done! Keep showing us more.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:32 PM   #105
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How about putting some of this on YouTube so we can see how it's done.

Bob
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:16 PM   #106
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Very inspiring and instructive. Your posts show what and how, and they set a standard for the work. Thanks for keeping it up. Rancho.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:41 PM   #107
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Jeez my right hand is numb. But certainly worth it!
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Old 05-24-2011, 08:46 AM   #108
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Flop I have a question. When showing shots of your sheet metal patches, it is evident that you work and finish weld one edge at a time. Subsequent shots show the original tack welds and the patch is finished one side. Can you educate me on this method?, as I have always tacked all around until the joint is complete, (keep the heat down by spacing the welds) then finished the grinding/filing until I am happy.
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Old 05-24-2011, 03:52 PM   #109
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how do you avoid pin holes and the little weld edges that always seem to need to be filed down?
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Old 05-25-2011, 06:15 AM   #110
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thanks greg!

Bob that would be an 8 hour long youtube video on this fender!

thanks rancho.little too much info Milton hahaha

Farrell this method works for me. but if ya think about the jumping around method on a panel that is 4 by 4 inches your are still gonna heat up the whole area anyway. i love working a panel from one side to the other.i can make the finished work keep going.hard to explain but sometimes you get the right amount of crown /warpage from the heat.this just works for me .

i never seem to get pin wholes with a tig i get occasional pits though. i do a ton of hammer and dolly work on the weld and on the edge of the weld.
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:20 AM   #111
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well heres another fender that was in nice shape but a hack job of removing the spash pan that was attatched



getting it together





clamped





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Old 06-11-2011, 07:28 AM   #112
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justa little patch i put in in

this fender is a train wreck but he wants it fixed so fixed it will get









ill show the rest when its gets finished up !
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:43 PM   #113
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mmmmm brass and double paneled...needless to say that got cut out





new holes getting lined up and welded in.measured from 3 different place on a very nice model a fender so it should be pretty close to the right spot



one high spot i see haha.ill take care of that tomorrow

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Old 06-21-2011, 05:50 PM   #114
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this is good stuff. Nice work, I am gonna be doing a bunch of patch panels soon and this is really helpful.
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Old 06-21-2011, 06:52 PM   #115
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Very professional Flop...Thanks for sharing your wonderful talent with us here on Fordbarn!

Pluck
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:37 AM   #116
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Hi Flop, just sent you an E-mail to get a price quote for you to work your magic on my 1930 Model A 4dr sedan rear fenders....Your work is ausome.....Dave
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Old 06-25-2011, 11:26 AM   #117
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glad i could help ollin

thanks steve!! appreciate the kind words!

hopefully we get to work together soon dave!


heres the finishing touches to the fender

finished up another fender this morning

some more stellar work



patch i made .a little english wheel action on it





last weld on it









badly brazed in



had to put a new pan in it as well.
the ends were really bad they had to be cut out of the fender



and thats where my camera died

but here it is finished up.the customer said the fender was gonna be junk i said naaaah its fixable now he has a perfectly good usable fender!

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Old 06-25-2011, 03:27 PM   #118
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FLOP...Awsome man!

That is a lost art that many of us do not know what to do!

Simply Awsome!

To bad you are on the East Coast!

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Old 06-25-2011, 07:26 PM   #119
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Hi Flop, just sent you an E-mail to get a price quote for you to work your magic on my 1930 Model A 4dr sedan rear fenders....Your work is ausome.....Dave

There's a line forming...

I just drove from Winchester VA to Pittsburgh yesterday to drop off my '29 rears to have Flop save them for me.

After the all the paint and filler was taken out when blasted it became even more evident that it was not something I could handle. Maybe I'll see his progress on them here!!
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Old 06-29-2011, 04:27 PM   #120
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thanks again steve

yours are next miles!

his fender is another fine specimen of fantastic work





mmm brass and screws!







the bead rod was broke as well





used my bead roller to make the step







next fix the mess and get the pan to fit



just used the break to make the bend and a little shrinker stretcher action to get the curve.



i have to use a paper template to make this i can never get it in one piece ...









only 4 more feet of welding to go haha

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Old 07-01-2011, 06:33 PM   #121
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Thanks Flop for posting. You ran through most of the parts I need to massage on my car. Nice work
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:52 PM   #122
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thanks ken!

heres the fender above finished up







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Old 07-19-2011, 07:55 AM   #123
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this set of rear fenders are for thebanjoman on here







it ended up being in the wrong spot .i think this was a pick up fender with ther holes drilled for a coupe

















a litttle thin


















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Old 10-13-2011, 09:37 PM   #124
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some work i am doing on a 30 roadster

heres the start! dug inot the driver side cowl today

found a mix of cement and some red oxide filler of sorts



cut out the mess and found a solid area to work with



welded up the inner piece and seam sealed it up





i made the body line on the harbor freight bead roller with the step die and some work to give it crown . way easier to make your own in my opinion then mess with patch panels





finished up



this crack is really throwing the alignment of the door off on the bottom. its on the top rail you could say on the quarter panel



crack open



craack closed.makes the door fit waaaay tighter to the body



ground a bunch more useless red oxide out of the door now its loking like a nice solid start!

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Old 10-13-2011, 10:14 PM   #125
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Nice work! I'll bet I can find 3 houses for sale in the neighborhood if you, Marco, and Brent want to move in. Then I wouldn't have to learn body work.
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Old 10-14-2011, 05:26 AM   #126
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Thanks for the very informative thread. I'm going to have to do this myself on my "new" '30, and it's great to see how it's done before I tackle it.
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:23 PM   #127
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Quote:
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Nice work! I'll bet I can find 3 houses for sale in the neighborhood if you, Marco, and Brent want to move in. Then I wouldn't have to learn body work.

Heck, I got a finished basement - carpet, TV, pool table, beds - all ready for 'em to move into - country life, pond full of fish in the backyard, and my wife's a great cook!

Seriously, Flop, for one of your "tender" years, you obviously have great talent - I'm 2-1/2 times your age and wouldn't have a clue where to start doing the stuff you do.

BTW, just curious - any idea what those roadster cowl lights are from? Definitely not Model A.
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:54 PM   #128
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i appreciate all the offer to move guys !!

thats why i put it up here jeep so maybe someone can learn from it.

chud i looked at the lights for a long time today . on the lens it saw c.w. hall lamp company detroit michigan


figured out why the door was hangin out at the bottom



all welded up





some filler. but i would much rather have some well used filler then rust



half finished ...the rest of the filler.







gonna have to pull the door to get around the hinges and pull the lock assembly to get around the handle hole



the next mess

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Old 10-15-2011, 04:57 AM   #129
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a question: what do you use to cut out those bad sections?
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:11 AM   #130
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

norton cutting wheel on a 4 inch grinder.only wheel i have never had explode.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:15 AM   #131
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Thanks-that's what I use, but I was wondering how you got those nice,straight lines. I guess I have to be more careful.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:25 AM   #132
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Hey Flop, keep up the great work and especially keep up the pictures and posting. Your pictures bring back great memories of my own endless hours of sheetmetal working-you're an inspiration, kind of makes me itch to get the ol sheetmetal work underway on something. If only I had the time......
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:06 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep44 View Post
Thanks-that's what I use, but I was wondering how you got those nice,straight lines. I guess I have to be more careful.
I start by putting masking tape where I want to cut, then cut close to the edge of the tape. I get pretty good results that way.

Rich
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Old 10-16-2011, 06:55 AM   #134
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glad you are enjoying the posts greg!

new subframe patch put it seam sealed ready for action haha



from the top



new patch tacked in

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Old 10-22-2011, 07:25 AM   #135
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

firewall business

a few extras





maybe the cleanest heater hole i have ever seen



goooone

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Old 10-22-2011, 09:50 AM   #136
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AMAZING!!
Paul in CT
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Old 10-25-2011, 07:18 AM   #137
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thanks paul!


onto the passenger side

this side is way more solid in the subrail dept



some cement and red oxide type filler



sandblasted primed and seamsealed the few pin holes i welded up



begining of the patch



after the step






tacked in



finished up

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Old 11-15-2011, 11:17 PM   #138
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

heres another project that came in . late 31 pick up cab with some severe bondo abuse and in a million piece

up to about a half an inch in some spots .





just a little bondo dust on the street .



mostly stripped now gonna start on it in the spring have it ready for next june all back in one piece.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:17 PM   #139
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Hey flop. Thats a good looking cab there hahahahhah. Can't wait to see it when you get done!
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:33 AM   #140
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hah thanks ian !


here are some 32 ford motor pans i did for jim on here


just a bunch of cracks and brass nothing to exciting



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Old 12-11-2011, 11:42 AM   #141
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Flop, Great thread and work. Where id you get subrail pieces? Care to share info? Great job!
Thanks
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:57 PM   #142
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Nice thread......it's good to see how patch panels are done step by step like this.....
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:51 AM   #143
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29 roadster i made the sub rail pieces in shop


thanks leathernek!
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:23 PM   #144
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

heres a few rear fenders Rolland/Pittsburgh dropped off for me today



just a little bondo abuse ive seen much worse!!

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Old 03-19-2012, 07:15 AM   #145
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Default Re: 1930 Ford Sheetmetal Work

Flop, just discovered your thread. You do amazing work! I am fascinated by all the techniques you employ to tackle your various metal challenges since I have no clue about metal working. Along with many others, I really appreciate you taking the time to post on this forum and look forward to seeing more. When I need metal work done on my 31 Town Sedan, I know where I am going since I am only about 250 miles away! Keep up your great work!
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:00 AM   #146
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Still hittin it hard I see. Good for you kid! I just might make it to a stop near you soon now that I'm a solo act. I know I said that a couple years ago, but life in that shop was an hourly challenge. So far it doesn't appear as though you've had to, but some home brewed annealing can be handy at times. Get your sheet stock hot but not quite red, maybe a very slight red to it, let it slow cool for a bit, repeat 1 more time not as hot. That shi...uh...stuff (!) get's nice and flexy where you need it and makes complex curves easier to knock out. The shaping makes it hard again. Clearly you enjoy what you do. It shows.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:22 PM   #147
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thanks country squire!! glad you are enjoying the thread and hopefully learning somethings along the way !! hopefully we can get some work done on your sedan in the future!!

highlander!! thanks man .im enjoying it is right . not over worked i take only as much as i can handle .alot of planning involved to keep folks happy and projects flowing in and out on time plus having a small shop every square foot is critical! if you are ever in the pittsburgh area let me know ! the spot i though i was going to have to use the torch on today was loaded with plastic and brass so it got cut out and a patch was made.


heres the before and after



while i was welding the patch in i had a bar clamped on the bead to keep everything in the position its supposed to be . i took it out for the picture
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