Shocks - reproduction vs. rebuilt

[42horsepower]

Hello all! I'm nearing the end of a restoration project on a '29 pickup. I need to buy shocks (it didn't come with any, so can't rebuild). I would appreciate any recommendations on reproductions vs. rebuilds and sourcing. All the other threads say Stipes. I haven't called them yet, but it sounds like the wait time would probably be a deal breaker for me. It's a family heirloom and the family is eager to drive it while the weather is nice, so I do need something that will be shipped soon. Thanks!

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by 42horsepower

Hello all! I'm nearing the end of a restoration project on a '29 pickup. I need to buy shocks (it didn't come with any, so can't rebuild). I would appreciate any recommendations on reproductions vs. rebuilds and sourcing. All the other threads say Stipes. I haven't called them yet, but it sounds like the wait time would probably be a deal breaker for me. It's a family heirloom and the family is eager to drive it while the weather is nice, so I do need something that will be shipped soon. Thanks!

I’ve been waiting over a year for shocks ordered from Stripes, and now they won’t even return my messages asking for projected delivery. Brentwood Bob on this forum rebuilds shocks, suggest you contact him.

JayJay

[Brentwood Bob]

There is a guy here that has several original equipment (OEM) rebuilt sets ready to ship today. Cost will be comparable to Stipes.
He also has OEM shock arms and tubular links.
If you contact him, mention your cars manufacture date, so there is a correct matchup.
PM me.
Pictures in the for sale section listing.
Ps: thanks, JayJay.

[351cmach]

I used a set of Rotoshim for my car. The car rides amazing. They look like originals but are designed with new technology. Well worth the money. https://rotoshim.com/products-1/ols/...s-ford-model-a

[California Travieso]

Originally Posted by 351cmach

I used a set of Rotoshim for my car. The car rides amazing. They look like originals but are designed with new technology. Well worth the money. https://rotoshim.com/products-1/ols/...s-ford-model-a

I noticed they are on back order. I wonder what the wait time is?

Did you use the Model A arms and other hardware? A picture of your application would help.

David Serrano

[updraught]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by 351cmach

I used a set of Rotoshim for my car. The car rides amazing. They look like originals but are designed with new technology. Well worth the money. https://rotoshim.com/products-1/ols/...s-ford-model-a

Looks like it uses a shim stack like a modern shock, with no adjustment. So, I guess they are tuned at the factory for each body style/weight?

[divcoone]

Call Brattons and see what they have to offer.

[42horsepower]

Thanks everyone!

Bob - Thanks, I'll message you.

I was wondering if anyone has used the Bratton's reproductions or if folks like rebuilt better. In addition to performance, I'm curious about maintenance and oil leaks. Thanks!

[42horsepower]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

There is a guy here that has several original equipment (OEM) rebuilt sets ready to ship today. Cost will be comparable to Stipes.
He also has OEM shock arms and tubular links.
If you contact him, mention your cars manufacture date, so there is a correct matchup.
PM me.
Pictures in the for sale section listing.
Ps: thanks, JayJay.

Hey Bob, I can't PM you because I'm too new to the forums. Apparently I need to post several more times!

[LeonardS]

Originally Posted by 42horsepower

Hey Bob, I can't PM you because I'm too new to the forums. Apparently I need to post several more times!

There is a “Test” forum at the bottom of the list of forums. Just go there and post some junk messages…..Hello, testing, etc.

[Brentwood Bob]

Sent you a PM. I am in the mafca roster. 94513.
925-872-3639.

[Brentwood Bob]

As discussed in previous threads, OEM shocks drop oil. Annual spring prep/ maintenance would be a good time to include checking the shocks, although this is not done. Failure, I think, is from neglect. The nitrile seals for the shaft I use should last years, probably well past the 5 years some replacements give. The driver model a's leave oil, and were designed to do that. Salt is not your cars friend. Nor is dust, mud, gravel roads, wind driven sand, small animals, etc.
I believe the "rebuilt"(disassembled, cleaned, new seals, refilled, assembled, tested for function, sealed, and leak tested), Houdaille shock goes on the car, and will give adequate service for a long time. That's its job, and it will do it well.

[stevemclark]

They were missing on my car and I went with a modern shock kit for a lot less, paint them black. Now I can buy new ones from any part store, some kits to look at.https://www.mikes-afordable.com/product/A18014MOD.html . https://modelastore.com/suspension/s...roduct_id=4833 . http://www.snjparts.com/Model-A-Shoc...8-a-18014.html. MODERN SHOCK & MOUNTING KIT W/ DRILLING REQUIRED .

[Joe K]

And - the so called "friction" shocks are still available.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fricti...shock_absorber

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...ocks,3799.html

Still in some use among the hot-rod crowd. One can actually "tune" these quite well to get to the "vibration neutral point."

]
Critical damping is the "sweet spot" (Minimal time to restoration of neutral)

Putting your girlfriend in the passenger seat can screw this up.

That might be where the term "Hop-Rod" came from.

Joe K

[updraught]

Originally Posted by Joe K

And - the so called "friction" shocks are still available.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fricti...shock_absorber

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...ocks,3799.html

Still in some use among the hot-rod crowd. One can actually "tune" these quite well to get to the "vibration neutral point."
Joe K

"The damping rate for frictional dampers has less than ideal behaviour for car suspension. An ideal suspension would offer more damping to greater suspension forces, with less damping at low speeds for a smoother ride. Frictional dampers though had a mostly constant rate. This was even greater when stationary, owing to stiction between stationary plates.[1][10] For larger bumps the damping may even be reduced. This is particularly a problem for fast driving, when repeated high forces may cause the friction plates to heat up and lose their efficiency."

In leaf springs, the diagram looks like coil springs, there is already a fair bit of friction.

[Hotrodfil]

Originally Posted by 351cmach

I used a set of Rotoshim for my car. The car rides amazing. They look like originals but are designed with new technology. Well worth the money. https://rotoshim.com/products-1/ols/...s-ford-model-a

I've been using the Rotoshims - I have a set on two cars now. Definitely recommend them. If you tell them your application they can be factory tuned. Each shock is dynamically tested after assembly to make sure they're matched.

[mass A man]

Don't wait to drive the car. Shocks or not, the car will go down the road just fine without them. Your wallet will help you decide which set of shocks you will get, but enjoy the short driving season while you can. The original type shocks are best, as I like originality on the Model A's if possible. If you spring a leak with the less expensive ones, I don't know how one could replace seals in them, but I imagine they could be if they went in them at one point.

[81ls1camaro]

I just bought a modern set from Ken Davis Model A if that is what you are looking for. He's probably $100 cheaper than the major vendors, and they all about the same.
http://www.kendavismodela.com/Shocks.html

[LeonardS]

Originally Posted by 81ls1camaro

I just bought a modern set from Ken Davis Model A if that is what you are looking for. He's probably $100 cheaper than the major vendors, and they all about the same.
http://www.kendavismodela.com/Shocks.html

He is less expensive, but his kit requires a hole to be drilled through the front axle. I don’t think that sounds like a great idea.

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by LeonardS

He is less expensive, but his kit requires a hole to be drilled through the front axle. I don’t think that sounds like a great idea.

Not a great idea in terms of aesthetics, performance, or market value?

[LeonardS]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Not a great idea in terms of aesthetics, performance, or market value?

Aesthetics, non-reversible. I would use a kit that had a bolt on/reversible mount, but not one that requires a visible hole/bolt. Different strokes for different folks.

[42horsepower]

Thanks for all the info.

We are not considering modern shocks right now, only rebuilds or reproductions. Also not going to drive it without them (not that I don't believe you, just a project management decision).

Here's what I've learned so far:
- Brentwood Bob is a good source for rebuilt shocks and has some right now
- There are two highly recommended reproductions, neither of which are available now

My question: Reproductions from Bratton's and Snyder's are available now and they claim to be lower maintenance than rebuilt. Has anyone used these specific shocks? How do they compare to high quality rebuilt shocks?

[rotorwrench]

There were some past reproductions that didn't work out well for folks that put down good money for them. I'm sure that this has soured some folks from purchasing the sealed type shocks as well. They may work just fine but I can see why folks would hesitate. The Stipe shocks were actually built better than the old Houdallie types and they can be serviced and overhauled like the originals. The no maintenance shock can not be repaired if it goes south and that's the reason I shy away from them. There may be some folks that have purchased them but if they don't frequent the Ford Barn then the OP may never get a review on these types.

[Oldbluoval]

Drilling a front axel is an adventure in itself.
Best to just pay extra money and forget that.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by 42horsepower

My question: Reproductions from Bratton's and Snyder's are available now and they claim to be lower maintenance than rebuilt. Has anyone used these specific shocks? How do they compare to high quality rebuilt shocks?

My answer to your question(s) is just my opinion and does not reflect the workmanship of John Holland, Bob, Bryan Perkins, or any other rebuilder.

I have installed quite a few sets of shocks from Bill Stipe, Brattons, and Snyders ...and all of them seem to be holding up well. IMO, from a safety standpoint of adding and controlling stability during driving, stopping, and steering, any of these reproduction shocks are better than having nothing on the vehicle.

Now the one thing that you mentioned that may be 'perceived terminology' however from my vantage point, when someone uses the term "high quality rebuilt" it generally means that everything has been returned to tolerances or specifications equal to, -or better than factory new. Again, I am not belittling any rebuilder but in my mind unless that person brings all of the internal pieces back within factory specifications or tolerances, it begs the question in my mind of whether the item was actually rebuilt, -or repaired. I feel there is a difference.

With the above thoughts, from my own personal experiences, it is very time consuming to weld-up worn pieces and re-machine these to have the same tolerance as what that item did when new. For this reason alone, most rebuilders cannot spend the needed time to completely restore a shock and come out financially. Therefore, it has been my experience that this person typically finds something that is repairable and do the best with what they have to work with. I have no problem with that, and there is a definite need for that in our hobby. The unfortunate thing about this method however, it really is not comparing apples-to-apples when those repaired shocks are compared to a brand new, freshly machined piece that has everything in proper tolerance.

Just my 2¢...

[Oldbluoval]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Rebuilding old shocks…something I used to do.
As above stated by Brent…
It is impossible (or near)) to find decent cores anymore.
There are 13 wear points inside a shock. Each surface is mutually dependent on the other surfaces. To weld and/or machine down 13 surfaces is really cost-prohibitive. And nigh impossible to get good tolerances back.
If one finds a “decent” shock with minimal wear, heavier viscosity fluid may be added. However, the shock action will not be exactly as original and cold weather might play havoc.

[ronn]

thank you for that description Brent. Yes that makes total sense.

when you think of the wear and tear a shock receives, unless it came from a low mileage car, it almost doesnt make sense to rebuild them. Most are worn out.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by ronn

thank you for that description Brent. Yes that makes total sense.

when you think of the wear and tear a shock receives, unless it came from a low mileage car, it almost doesnt make sense to rebuild them. Most are worn out.

I agree. I think for the present time, you are spot-on.

One thing I will say that may throw all of this out is that I think in the future there may be a new option for hobbyists. My shop has been trying to purchase a CNC machining center to use for various tasks around the shop. I think in the near future, the possibility is very real to fixture and set-up a worn, used shock that could be computer machined to an oversized tolerance in the wear areas ...all with exacting precision. Then the rotor can have the wear surfaces welded and then re-machined to fit the oversized re-machined shock body. While the costs may never be as affordable as what reproduction units are now, it gives a viable option for rebuilding original shocks and making them nearly equal to the reproduction units.

[stevemclark]

I made clamp on brackets to clamp over the front axle rather than drill a hole.I also lowered the shocks to work better..

[Brentwood Bob]

Steve, was this install an improvement?
You would not believe the effort it takes to find usable OEM shocks, and then fix them.
For me, real satisfaction comes when the reworked, correct set get matched to a model a.

[clifforddward]

FWIW, I'd like to report that I have two sets I obtained from Brentwood Bob...both sets were properly matched and worked perfectly.

As for availability of rebuildable cores, I had a boxful I sent out to Bob as part of a trade deal on a separate project he was doing for me...they all looked OK from the outside but it seems that only a couple out of the 10 or so I sent were usable cores. All had been off of cars for some time. I think the comments made by others about the difficulty of obtaining rebuildable cores is certainly true.

Buying a rebuilt set is expensive, but original shocks are only going to cost more as time marches on...I'd recommend folks consider saving up and buying a set while some are still available...I suspect reproductions when they become available again will set a new high price record.

[stevemclark]

Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob

Steve, was this install an improvement?
You would not believe the effort it takes to find usable OEM shocks, and then fix them.
For me, real satisfaction comes when the reworked, correct set get matched to a model a.

They helped as there were none on the car ,at $395 for the kit it was not to bad.I had a power saw ,drill press and a wire welder already.My dad had a small machine shop in the back of his 30' x 40' garage.I grew up with that and took a two year machine shop class in High School at a vo-tech school then a four year apprentice class at night working in a shop in the daytime, my company would pay for it if you kept passing grades.

[Benson]

deleted

[Brentwood Bob]

Steve, thanks for the install pictures. Glad the ride improved.

[mcgarrett]

Brentwood Bob,
I have a set of cores that I think would be rebuildable, but not certain. I'm sure you know what to look for. If you're interested in buying them, PM me for more info.

[ronn]

#1 and #3

[Brentwood Bob]

Mcgarrett, pm sent. Thanks for reaching out.