New build (not fired), water in cylinder-head gasket backwards?

[j ripper]

I’m curious as to what cam you are using to be worried about valve clearance. I know it’s not the issue at hand just curious. Along with that, have you rolled the engine over by hand with no gasket?. That’s where I would start.

[busmania]

I’m using an Isky max 1 cam. Nothing crazy. Just with aftermarket parts, I want to make sure I have the required clearance! With no gasket and heads on, the valves did slightly tap the head. With gasket on and torqued i think all my clearances (valve to heads) was about .060-.070. I’d have to go back and look at my records.

[Don T]

I think I have it!! The Garage Gremlin is pouring water down your carb when you have your back turned!! Unfortunately he/she is very hard to identify and almost impossible to catch. Not to worry as many of us have the same critter in our garages.

[busmania]

Question for y’all.

I’m going to try the graphtite gaskets if they show up today. Once installed, can I use a radiator pressure tester (like linked below) to check to see if it will hold before I fill it with water and get more after into my cylinders?

https://www.harborfreight.com/radiat...kit-63862.html

[Bored&Stroked]

I don't see any reason why not? It might help you determine IF there is a problem and what it might be. Your problem is a bit of an "unknown" at the moment . . . and once we know the source, then the answers will be easier to propose.

Best of luck - you've earned some!

[cmbrucew]

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The current cost of gaskets has a lot to do with why I don't use sealant when installing heads. I believe that if you concentrate on fit, flathess, and surface condition, you can get by with just a coating of grease (which will give you a second chance).


You might consider Tubman's advise.
I have done that and was able to reuse the gasket.
Good idea using air pressure the locate a leak, not as messy as water.
Bruce

[busmania]

Thanks. While very pricey, each time I have done it I assume it’s going to be fixed so sealer doesn’t scare me. It also seems that no matter how much care I take, the gasket gets damaged, even if ever so slightly. Given my issues, I’d rather have no questions and use a new gasket with each attempt…although very pricey.

I’m measuring cylinder and valve clearances as we speak with the graphtite gaskets. Will be a long night but hopefully at the end, I’ll have some light at the end of the tunnel.

Side note…I’ve been working on air cooled vws since 2003 and mostly only air cooled vw’s (after working in muscle cars in high school). Gotta say, I kind of HATE coolant! With all the draining and filling and mess and smell and this and that I hate it. Never thought air cooled was all that special, until now. I’m still dreaming of a purring beautiful Flathead though.

[rich b]

Maybe it's just me; but I never put coolant in an engine until it's on the road and everything works; then drain the water and refill with anti-freeze.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by rich b

Maybe it's just me; but I never put coolant in an engine until it's on the road and everything works; then drain the water and refill with anti-freeze.

I'm with you, but I think some use the term "coolant" to refer to both water and antifreeze . . . you're definitely referring to water. I do exactly the same thing as there are always issues of some kind and leaking anti-freeze all over the place is a real pain.

[busmania]

Yeah I’m using actual antifreeze because I was hoping I was setting it up to fire. Plus, newb alert.

Anyway, maybe some good news! Last night I was in the shop until the weeee hours of the morning. I only did the graphtite gasket on one side as it’s all I had time for and the other side was not leaking (will do Other side today). Anyway, I installed the graphtite and checked clearances. Valves were about .040 so plenty of room. Pistons however will be tight at .030-.040. This ok?

I put it all back together and holy poop, it didn’t leak! Don’t get too excited…I’ve been there before. So after I filled it, I cautiously pressurized the full system with my new harbor freight pressure tester. Cool tool and took a minute to work out some kinks. After I plugged the overflow tube, I found a few smaller leaks like at the lower radiator hose and temp sender. After fixing those, it seemed to hold pressure and no water was in the cylinders. Wahoo! Time to crank it…this is where things went south last time. So, I cranked for about 10 seconds (plugs out) and wahoooo!!! No leaks! I then hooked up the pressure again to see if it would hold the 3 hours while I was sleeping. Sure enough, when when I woke up it didn’t have the full 3 pounds of pressure I started with but it still
Was holding pressure and about 1.5 pounds. I did find one small leak again at the temp sender housing area so I’m hoping that’s why it lost a little pressure. Other than that, I don’t think I have water in the cylinder.

Today I will do the other side so the gaskets are the same. And then pressure test it all again. I can see the light!

All this while raising kids, family, running my business…I don’t sit still very well!

[deuce_roadster]

Make sure you retorque the heads after 2 or 3 heat/cold cycles. You will be surprised how much it changes after the first one. You do have a torque sequence chart, right? I usually do the retorques before putting any coolant in.

[busmania]

Yes to re torquing after it’s heated and cooled several times. In trying to make sure I did it all 100% correct, I actually did each torque cycle (20, 40, 55) 3 times before moving onto the next torque. I think I did the final torque 4 times just to be sure. And yep, I followed the cycle in the instructions that came with the heads.

[Mart]

I'd leave the other side alone. The engine will never know. You will then have a spare gasket which I hope you will never need. But that's just me. Others might disagree.

[Bored&Stroked]

Good news on the gasket . . . hopefully the issue is resolved. I'm really curious as to why you had so much of an issue with the copper ones. Who was the manufacturer of the copper gaskets?

On piston clearance, having .040 is perfect (with the head gasket on and torqued in place). You'll probably be fine at .030 as well - depending on how much carbon build up over time and also piston rock. How did you do this measurement?

[busmania]

I placed 4 small foil balls on each piston (one in middle and then 3 around the outside). I no used grease to hold them in place (that’s the red you see in some photos in middle of piston). I put one one each valve. I thorn turned the engine over by hand about 4 - 5 full revolutions so. Took it apart and measured balls. The .030-.040 were the tightest and all in the center. Around the edges I had a little more (like .045-.050).

[busmania]

Originally Posted by Mart

I'd leave the other side alone. The engine will never know. You will then have a spare gasket which I hope you will never need. But that's just me. Others might disagree.

Even with the clearances being .020-.030 bigger since I have the thicker copper gasket on that side? Won’t one side have higher compression than the other and will that cause issues?

[cadillac512]

Leaving the thicker gasket will work ok...you'll not notice the small compression difference. BUT, I vastly prefer the composition gasket in builds like yours, and would install it now. The .030-.040 clearance will do fine, great in fact! I'd run plain water for the fireup and first runs too, unless there is a freeze risk.

[Bored&Stroked]

You can fire it up the way it is, or change the gaskets on the other side. Since you actually have the gaskets and you're maybe using a bit different assembly technique, why not just do both sides now? That is what I'd do . . . but I'm kind of anal about things . . . sometimes to my own demise. LOL

When you measured clearances, was that with a gasket in place or not?

[busmania]

I’ll be doing the other side otherwise I’ll always wonder if I should have.

Measurements are WITH gaskets installed.

[cadillac512]

Originally Posted by busmania

I’ll be doing the other side otherwise I’ll always wonder if I should have.

Measurements are WITH gaskets installed.

Excellent.