55 Ford Ranch Wagon is Overheating.

[poolplayer1]

Hello everyone here at the forum. I have been away for awhile due to health issues but doing much better now so back to work. I was driving my wagon friday ( outside temp. was 105 degrees) and the temp. gauge went all the way to 235 degrees. I parked for about 30 minutes to let the engine cool down and than drove home. I had installed a new Vintage Air Gen IV AC system a few months back but had not driven it much cause I was replacing parts in the front end. The engine was rebuilt about one year ago. The Radiator is a new 24" 3 core brass rad. I have a new 180 degree thermostat. The upper and lower radiator hoses are new. I have a new 13lbs psi radiator cap. A while back I removed the old mechanical fan and installed a new 16" 3000 CFM electric fan and also installed a new fan controller circuit to turn the fan on when the coolant temp. reaches 190 degree and when the pressures on the A C system reach a certain pressure. Fan is working like it should. When the engine was rebuilt, I put in a new water pump but its the same one that was used in the oem 302 engine. Do you think that now that I have the A C installed, I need a different water pump to keep the coolant cooler? I would appreciate some help with this problem. The A C is working good and keeping the inside temp. at 40 degrees, nice and cold.

[elmo771]

I have heard the airflow is restricted when using electric fans Some swear going back to a clutch fan and a fan shroud

[Hot Rod Reverend]

Some questions that would help...

1. Were you in heavy traffic or stop and go when it overheated?
2. On the rebuild, were the head gaskets installed correctly? If flipped, there are coolant holes that get covered as you may know. (disregard if you have a 302 and not a 312 like I originally thought... typos happen :')
3. Could there be air in the coolant system that needs to be bled out?
4. Do you have an infrared gun to check places within the system to confirm that things are working as they should?
5. What is the brand of thermostat you are using? It could be that the thermostat is frozen shut.

[miker98038]

HRR covered most of the questions, and I know from experience that Elmo’s remarks about the electric fans are correct. And also about a good shroud and clutch fan.

Did it actually boil? At 50/50 antifreeze boiling is a bit over 220. A 13# cap gives you about another 40*, for 260 degrees. Using a coolant recovery can that helps get (and keeps) all the air out? But 105 is pretty warm. Last week in Tucson we saw a couple days of 103, and they had some 115 days before I got here. That’s a lot of heat, and especially with the a/c condenser in front of the radiator where I assume it is. So while it’s scary, it really doesn’t surprise me.

My bird with an electric fan and a/c will hold 190 in traffic at 90 degrees, which is about all we see up in Seattle. But it’s a well shrouded fan, everything in perfect shape, hi flow thermostat, smaller water pump pulley, reduced by pass hose, and BeCool aluminum radiator. It took everyone of those items to get where I am.

Greenbird56 did an article on engine temp vs ambient a few years back on yblocksforever. As high as 113F. Let me see if I can get ahold of him a get a reprint. I couldn’t find it with a search over there.

[Gene F]

A shroud does wonders.

I noticed something about my 57. Some times it seems like it eats gas. Some times it seems like it gets decent fuel economy. So I noticed these two conditions also affect my temp gage. Then it hit me. My distributor vacuum advance is likely hanging up. My next order to Concourse Parts I will be getting a new one. I am guessing your distributor was not overhauled when the engine was. Heck, I wouldn't.

[miker98038]

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I couldn’t find the article on the ambient temperature, but here’s a post with Greenbird56’s clutch/fan/pulley etc. I know he’s ok to 113F or so. No a/c. He hasn’t been around much lately on the boards, but I had lunch with him last week.

Good thought about the v advance. Let us know.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic122011.aspx

[KULTULZ]

I put in a new water pump but its the same one that was used in the oem 302 engine

Is the engine a FYB or later 302 SBF/5.0L conversion?

[paul2748]

Any chance that the new waterpump is a reverse rotation pump ?

[paul2748]

Any chance that the new waterpump is a reverse rotation pump ?


Personally, I have bad luck with front mounted electrical fans. Went back to a standard 4 blade fan and everything was ok. No airconditioned car.

[miker98038]

Oops, I missed the 302. So some of the info isn’t much help. But the airflow/fan/shroud doesn’t care what engine it’s trying to cool.

[poolplayer1]

Thanks to all of you for your great tips and suggestions on this problem. I was not sitting in traffic when it started to overheat, was going down the road at 55mph. The engine was completely rebuilt by a machine shop here in town. They have a very good reputation and have been in business for more the 40 years. The water pump is the correct one for this engine. The 302 I have in there now is from a 1968 ford country squire wagon that I bought back in the 70's. I am wondering if the compressor is putting a lot of stress/load on the engine cause I hear a slight humming out of the compressor when I rev up the engine. Will check some things tomorrow to see If I can come up with something that will lead me to the problem.

[KULTULZ]

I was not sitting in traffic when it started to overheat, was going down the road at 55mph.

Are the fan(s) (single or dualing?) mounted in front of or behind the rad/cond? Can you post a photo of the install, especially the cooling module, the pulley(s) drive belt detup and fan mounting (if electric fans are mounted in front of the radiator/cond, they will restrict airflow)?

You don't have an overflow or gas bottle correct (if not look into one)?. If you watch coolant flow with the rad cap off (be careful here) and thermostat open, does the coolant flow at idle? WP pulley may be too large in DIA,

There is a lower splash pan (and deflectors) that came on the FYB that helps direct airflow through the radiator instead of it's not hitting the radiator disrupting airflow.

Of course correct timing. Did the 302 have IMCO on it where it had a sensor mounted in the thermostat housing and a dual port vacuum advance? If so, remove the system (if functional) as it will will alter timing advance.

There are HI-FLOW WP's available.

[poolplayer1]

Thanks Kultulz for your reply. The fan is a 16" electric fan that is mounted on the engine side of the radiator ( Puller fan) . The thermostat does not have any sensor at all and the vacuum advance is a single port type. Its a new vacuum advance. I have the timing set at 12 degree initial and 36 degree total advance. Engine is running great other than overheating. I do have a coolant recovery bottle connected to the rad. I'm going to check and see if the coolant is circulating to make sure the WP is working ok.
Later this morning I will try to take a photo of the fan and rad. and than post it here.

[Ford blue blood]

Did it lose water? I ask because my Ranchero runs at 200 on the gauge. 351C, three row aluminum radiator, 50/50 mix and a 12lb cap. I was worried about it being too hot. Decided to test the gauge. Turns out the 200 reading is really 190 at the t-stat housing and 130 on the lower radiator hose. That was after a couple laps around the block. Let it set and idle in the shop for 15 minutes (93 ambient temp). When the gauge hit 220 the t-stat housing was only 201, the lower hose was 145. Might be you're not overheating.

[poolplayer1]

Thanks Ford blue for your input on this problem. Yesterday I removed the rad.cap to see if the coolant was circulating and it is. Making sure the water pump was ok. The mechanical gauge went up to 225 so I went ahead and shut the engine off. After I shut the engine off, I checked to see if it was boiling over but it was not. Are the readings that you show here from your car with the A C on? With mine, If I don't turn the A C on, it runs right at about 185 or so but after I turn the A C on, thats when it starts to get kind of hot. I just need to find the problem cause I don't want to have a blown head gasket. Its a newly rebuilt engine.

[miker98038]

I read that as the overheating is caused either by the increased engine load (compressor, compressor fan, compressor clutch, interior fan, hence the alternator) or the increased cooling load at the radiator (assume the condenser is mounted in front of the radiator and has its own fan controlled by the a/c).

Who’s a/c unit is it, and does it include a heater core. I ask because those modern cores will take a 13# cap, I’m not sure about the original heat cores.

I don’t know the specifics, but I know the race car guys (high compression, boost, nitrous) use some specific head gaskets on the sbf.

[poolplayer1]

The A C unit is a vintage air gen IV complete unit with heater and ac. It works great, keeps the wagon at 40 degrees while driving around. The radiator has a 13lbs cap. I have a coolant reservoir/ coolant recovery bottle connected to the radiator. This morning when I started the engine up and after warm up, I turned the A C on and I can see a difference in the engine. When the clutch engages, the engine bogs down some like its putting a big load on the engine. I don't know if a second electric fan behind the condensor would help to help keep the coolant cooler. This morning I ran the wagon for about 20 minutes and I also put a electric 20" shop fan in front of the condensor to mimic going down the road and the temp. went up to 225 degrees. I shut it off after it got that hot to prevent blowing a head gasket. I wonder that since the engine was completely rebuilt and where the block was bored out to 30 over, maybe the engine has too much friction. I only have about 250 miles on this engine since it was rebuilt.

[Gene F]

So did I miss test drive with the A/C off?

A few more miles on a fresh engine will be nice.

[miker98038]

My bird has an aftermarket EFI. When the a/c goes on, the computer increases the idle speed to compensate for the load. Old days, a lot of a/c cars had a solenoid that raised the idle speed (on the linkage at the carb). Is there a big difference in the idle speed with the a/c off as opposed to on? I was surprised on my car just how much load went on the electrical system, and that I needed a bigger alternator than I had.

I’ve got another car with a vintage air, and several friends with them. First rate systems, I’d probably never buy anything else again. Certainly better than the one in my bird. Live and learn.

So, if I’ve got this right. Idle on the road at 105 ambient, temp ok. Road speed at 55mph, overheated, still 105 ambient. Now, idle in driveway, 20” fan in front of car (or radiator), overheated. Ambient temp? When they run cars under load on a chassis dyno, they’ve typically got a 48” fan in front of the car.

I’m not trying to be a PITA just trying to get a clear picture of what goes on. Too small a radiator, too little airflow (fans), airflow blocked (main fan on radiator, missing splash pan), ported vacuum or manifold to distributor vacuum advance, low idle speed? Small items each, but adding up? Good news is it isn’t boiling over, and I don’t think the head gaskets are a problem at 235. The sbf guys should know that.

[KULTULZ]

When the a/c goes on, the computer increases the idle speed to compensate for the load. Old days, a lot of a/c cars had a solenoid that raised the idle speed (on the linkage at the carb). Is there a big difference in the idle speed with the a/c off as opposed to on? I was surprised on my car just how much load went on the electrical system, and that I needed a bigger alternator than I had.

That's a good point. Does it overheat in traffic, at road speed or both? I assume you you used the FEAD (Front End Accessory Drive) (also incl WP pulley) from the donor incl ALT?

What type of WP did you use, a rebuilt (quality)? Drive belt adjusted correctly?

You say you have a coolant temp mechanical gauge, quality?

Adding a photo of the install would help greatly.