Dead

[vern hodgson]

Ok, so I push on the starter, engine starts to turn over, then I hear a crackle and the battery is dead. So would you look to the starter or starter switch? Is it possible the starter can work dozens of times then suddenly short out? When I charge the battery. It works for a while then does the same thing again. I notice the starter rod, which is the Canadian offset type is rubbing against the gas control arm, could that be a problem? Using hand crank the car starts with one or two tugs.

[gustafson]

age of battery? sounds like it has an internal short and cannot hold a charge, yank it and have it tested

[Marshall V. Daut]

It might be a weak grounding problem. The Model A's 6 volt electrical system is very dependent upon good grounds. Remove the ground strap from the crossmember attachment and scrape, sand, or grind the area until it is bright clean. Also do the same to the strap's end that meets the metal. Remove the battery cables from the terminals and clean both the terminals and inside the cable ends. Reassemble and try the starter again. If no luck, there may be a problem inside the starter itself or the battery is dying. But check the simple things first, like good grounds.
Marshall

[vern hodgson]

Originally Posted by gustafson

age of battery? sounds like it has an internal short and cannot hold a charge, yank it and have it tested

Battery is two years old

[vern hodgson]

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

It might be a weak grounding problem. The Model A's 6 volt electrical system is very dependent upon good grounds. Remove the ground strap from the crossmember attachment and scrape, sand, or grind the area until it is bright clean. Also do the same to the strap's end that meets the metal. Remove the battery cables from the terminals and clean both the terminals and inside the cable ends. Reassemble and try the starter again. If no luck, there may be a problem inside the starter itself or the battery is dying. But check the simple things first, like good grounds.
Marshall

Would a weak ground cause an immediat loss of charge?

[Dick Steinkamp]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by vern hodgson

Would a weak ground cause an immediat loss of charge?

Are you sure there is an "immediate loss of charge"? That would be highly unlikely. Does the battery actually test DEAD with a multimeter or does the battery just stop turning the engine over? The engine would not start with the hand crank if the battery was actually DEAD.

The "crackle" you hear is usually a system with a poor connection trying to make a connection (cables at battery posts, battery to ground, battery to starter, starter switch itself)

[WHN]

The good thing is you know your car will run.

I would look for some type of battery/electrical issue. Turn on your headlights. Do they stay bright for a good period of time or quickly go dim and than out? If they stay bright, check all your battery connections and clean terminals. If they dim quickly, check all connections after you buy new battery. Enjoy.

[DHZIEMAN]

Originally Posted by vern hodgson

Ok, so I push on the starter, engine starts to turn over, then I hear a crackle and the battery is dead. So would you look to the starter or starter switch? Is it possible the starter can work dozens of times then suddenly short out? When I charge the battery. It works for a while then does the same thing again. I notice the starter rod, which is the Canadian offset type is rubbing against the gas control arm, could that be a problem? Using hand crank the car starts with one or two tugs.

Starting with the hand crank easily, kind of moves the problem to a poor connection someplace or a bad starter, or starter switch. The starter switch can be removed and kind of bypassed, a bad ground would affect high current needed for the starter but not just for the coil ignition. Not being there, I am leaning at a bad connection someplace. Let us know what you uncover!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

A QUICK test for a BAD ground: Put your test light on the + post, to a metal spot on the ENGINE/FRAME. If it lights while cranking, then you have a POOR GROUND connection!
Bill Slowcranking

[Marshall V. Daut]

Along with what "WHN" has suggested, turn the headlights on and then go around to the front of the car. Have someone sit in the car and depress the starter rod. The lights should dim a little, but not go out or suddenly get very faint. If they do, then you can bet the battery or grounds need attention. If the lights don't significantly dim, then the battery and grounds might be all right. Because you can hand crank the engine to start it, there is definitely a problem between the starter and battery, with the battery itself or from the battery to the ground.
Keep at it: you'll find the problem. It will be something as simple and cheap as cleaning the cable ends and the ground, or as expensive as a new battery or a starter rebuild. By the way, my two last NAPA six volt batteries were both defective right out of the box, so don't rule out a battery with a weak cell or two just because it's only two years old.
Marshall

[gustafson]

"I would look for some type of battery/electrical issue."
good idea

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by vern hodgson

Battery is two years old

Battery in my modern ride failed and left me stranded after two years...just past the warranty period.

Like others have posted, I'd bet on a battery or connection issue.

[frank55a]

Last year I purchased a Model A that had been sitting for a couple years and the battery went dead. So the owner purchased a new battery from a reputable battery dealer. He hooked it up correctly and it worked fine when I initially looked at the A. He had a battery disconnect which we used to disconnect the battery after I ran the A. When I went back 2 weeks later the battery was dead, so we put it on charge overnight and I went back the next day to pick up the A. It started fine and I drove it home. The following day I went to start it and the battery once again was dead. Therefore I pulled the battery and took it back to the dealer, they checked it out and found a bad cell. They replaced the battery with a new one at no cost to me. They told me that it is not common but does occasionally happen that they get a defective battery from the manufacture - hence that is why the warranty. I have had NO battery problems since.

If you did not have any problems before with your electrical system, I would start with having the battery checked out.

[vern hodgson]

Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp

Are you sure there is an "immediate loss of charge"? That would be highly unlikely. Does the battery actually test DEAD with a multimeter or does the battery just stop turning the engine over? The engine would not start with the hand crank if the battery was actually DEAD.

The "crackle" you hear is usually a system with a poor connection trying to make a connection (cables at battery posts, battery to ground, battery to starter, starter switch itself)

True, probably not totaly dead, but not cranking, just a bump, multimeter shows 5 volts on a 6v batt.

[Badpuppy]

5V could be dead cell, or might be bad cutout discharging the battery between runs. Check ammeter with engine stopped, should read zero. Any discharge means a bad cutout. With engine running, battery charge should eventually settle down to 1-2 amps with a good battery.

[Corley]

I'd clean the battery posts and cable ends really well, as those do tend to corrode and loose electrical contact, even though they seem nice and tight. Of course, your meter is your friend if you want to trouble shoot it instead of SWAGging it.

[Marshall V. Daut]

"Badpuppy" is right about the cutout sticking. It can drain a battery in an hour or so, as has happened to me in the past more than once. The first time it happened, I got stranded in 1974 while attending the MAFCA convention on the Queen Mary. I had parked the car in a restaurant's parking lot and ate lunch with some Model A people I encountered on the road. After a leisurely lunch of more than hour (!), my Model A's battery was dead, even though I had just driven in from Phoenix, so the battery charge was full. One of the more experienced Model A guys in the lunch bunch suggested it might be my cutout that had drained the battery in such a short time, as my lights had not been left on. He tapped the top of the cutout with a small hammer and "Ting!" went the points inside the cutout as the points opened up. That's how I learned about stuck cutouts and drained batteries! It is amazing how fast the battery will go down with the cutout points stuck!
If you should see the ammeter needle on the discharge side when you shut off the engine, tap the top of the cutout with a small hammer or large wrench. This will unstick the points and set the ammeter needle back to zero. If the cutout is the culprit, a new one with a diode installed is the solution, unless you can find a good original cutout. Most of the off-shore cutouts made in the last 30 years are not very good and are prone to draining the battery. If you go the new cutout route with a diode inside, be sure to order the one meant for positive ground cars if the 6 volt system is still in place. The negative ground cutout is for 12 volt battery conversions and for Model T's.
Marshall

[Bill G]

One of your questions was whether the starter rod rubbing on the gas control arm could be a reason for your starting and dead battery issue. The answer to that is no.

[Gary WA]

Originally Posted by vern hodgson

Ok, so I push on the starter, engine starts to turn over, then I hear a crackle and the battery is dead. So would you look to the starter or starter switch? Is it possible the starter can work dozens of times then suddenly short out? When I charge the battery. It works for a while then does the same thing again. I notice the starter rod, which is the Canadian offset type is rubbing against the gas control arm, could that be a problem? Using hand crank the car starts with one or two tugs.

Still Dead

[Gary WA]

Battery,not rod!