starter rebuild question

[KMeredith87]

I've searched though the old postings on here and cannot seem to find an answer to my problem...I'm in the process of rebuilding my starter and don't seem to be able to get the field coils tight enough for the armature to fit back in properly. Any tricks or guidance for this would be helpful. I've already tried using a 3/8 bolt to tighten them down prior to installing the correct screw and I have also placed a c clamp on the pole plate while tighten and yet the armature only can go about 3/4 of the way in prior to contacting the sides. I'm at a loss at this point and sure could use some help. Thanks in advance!

[Kurt in NJ]

If any of the pole pieces are crooked they will have trouble fitting tight to the housing ---a large tailpipe expander can be used ---possibly when the armature is 3/4 in loosening the screws some and wiggling the armature could align them better

If you retaped thecoils without removing the old tape they could be too thick

[KMeredith87]

Hmm....I've tried to form the coils to the pole piece the best I can and still no avail. I am installing new coils and am putting the pole pieces back in the same place they came out of. With all of the pole screws loose I can get the armature in place however, I cannot spin it and once I tighten the screws its held fast in place. I understand the poles need to he completely straight and believe them to be as this starter was functioning recently. Ready to throw the starter through the wall! Haha

[columbiA]

What I would do get a short piece of 1/2" hard steel shaft & grind the end to be a snug fit in the pole screws.Slide a nut that will just slide on the i/2" shaft about 1/2 way downand weld the nut to the shaft.this will provide a place for the wrench.Take a foot long board & screw a 2 by 2 about 4" apart or so,so the field frame can be held from rolling around.You can clamp the holder to a drill press table Then all you need to do is put the tool in the chuck just tight enough that it will turn in the chuck. All you need the press for is downward pressure on the tool.I have never had to do this as I always had good field coils or found another one that did.Last year,I picked up a grungy Starte at a swap meet for $10 & When I took it apart,all I had to do was clean it up & a drop of oil on the bushings & it was like new.Another vendor at same SM had a ''rebuilt" starter with no drive or switch for $100! I never trust a rattle can rebuild.I also never trust a nice looking wheel if it has an old tire on it,as very often the tire has had water inside for years & the rim can be to far gone to use.

[Willie Krash]

You ain't gonna like it but when this happens I lock a 2" bar in the vice and slide the barrel over it. I then beat the snot out of the barrel. The bar on the inside up against the pole shoe, beat the outside of the barrel. Keep tightening the pole shoe screws. If you have a large anvil better yet.
Never shorted out a coil and always worked. Early Ace or IPM coils rarely caused problems, they fit well.
On the other hand I wrap FC instead of replacing them when I can. If they aren't shorted I leave them alone.
If the coil test good and the wrapping is in good shape I really don't think removing them or replacing them adds much to reliability.
It might be of interest also that Delco used a pole shoe with a leading edge. If you don't put them back in right, that is to say in the direction of rotation, the starter will lose torque.
I don't see this on Fords but worth noting. I always mark them regardless.

[tbirdtbird]

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alas i have posted this before.
Use the 1/2 inch drive bit with the large 'straight screwdriver" tip you would use to adjust the end caps on the steering linkage. Put it on your 1/2 drive breaker bar. Put the barrel in a large vise and allow extra space to insert the large bit in there at the same time (with the bit fully engaging the slot of the pole piece screw). Your breaker bar will be at right angles to the barrel. Snug up the vise onto the whole affair. You may need two people for this. Tighten the vise. Now the pressure of the vise keeps the bit from camming out of the screw head. As you tighten the screw, tighten the vise also.
You may need to grind the tip somewhat to get a good fit. So be it.

You do the reverse to remove a pole shoe screw obv.

This setup mimicks the jig that the old time starter shops had to do just this task.

The screw has to be super tight not just to get the windings to clear the armature, but because the magnetic fields are strong and want to pull the pole piece toward the armature when the starter is energized.

[Herb Concord Ca]

When I converted my starter to 12 Volts I was able to use original field coils and still had to form the pole pieces to the coils and then the coils to the ID of you the starter housing. The housing and poles pieces were cleaned, bead blasted and lightly painted. I still had to use a C-clamp on each end of the pole piece to get the field and pole piece properly seated. Hope you are using original field coils, as said above they fit better.
Good luck.

[Tom Wesenberg]

When I rewrapped the fields on my Cub Cadet Starter/generator I had to take it to the starter shop to get the last 1/2 turn on each screw. Even my impact screwdriver couldn't get them tight enough.

[KMeredith87]

Thanks for all of the advice, in the end it took some time to get the coils formed to the pole pieces but once they were not problem getting it back together and it did not take any excessive force to tighten the screws back down. Now for the fun part....put the start back togther, functions no problem but it seems to be spinning in reverse as the bendix will now engage but will draw it back if it is extended when the starter spins. Oh and this is a 12 volt starter by the way...any ideas on this one, I'm at a loss.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Do you have a picture of the drive helix? There are left hand and right hand spirals, and it's easy to mix them up.

Also, could you have installed the fields on the wrong side, or gotten the brushes in the wrong holders?

[BudP]

Here are some tools that will help you: http://www.venselenterprises.com/onl...ools/P263.html

You will need C808-2622, Field Coil Expander, 1 1/2 " to 2 1/2 ". Current price is $39
If you don't have a drill press, a decent vise and good arm strength, you could use the manual pole shoe tool ($625.50) or the manual heavy duty pole shoe tool ($1,100).

My advice, get a good vise, a 1/2" breaker bar, a 1/2 " drive bit, a neighbor with arms the size of your thighs, and a cold brew or two!

[tbirdtbird]

wow i did not know you could still buy that stuff !!
the vise always works, tho !!!

[KMeredith87]

Good info on the tools budp next time I'll keep that in mind. I don't have a picture of the drive off hand but I can get one later. However, it is the same drive that I had on it prior to the starter being rebuilt. As for the fields they are brand new 12v ones from synders so I don't think they are mixed up but can't say for sure. The brushes are in the correct holders as well, grounded brush to grounded holder and insulated to insulated unless I'm wrong on where they go.

[ctlikon0712]

I found some of this info useful. Hope it helps.

[tbirdtbird]

ctlikon, if you have access to the page before which shows fig. 462 this will help the crowd understand how a pole screwdriver works

[ctlikon0712]

Sorry, I don't. That was all that was included in the posting I saved it from......

[BudP]

ctlikon,

Here are some pictures of effective devices that address field coil removal and insertion: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1356267344.

Bud

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by KMeredith87

Good info on the tools budp next time I'll keep that in mind. I don't have a picture of the drive off hand but I can get one later. However, it is the same drive that I had on it prior to the starter being rebuilt. As for the fields they are brand new 12v ones from synders so I don't think they are mixed up but can't say for sure. The brushes are in the correct holders as well, grounded brush to grounded holder and insulated to insulated unless I'm wrong on where they go.

I don't think I have any starter brush installation pictures, but about a year ago someone had a problem, and he had installed the brushes 180* from where they should have been.

[tbirdtbird]

BudP, that link s/b extremely helpful to the group since this question comes up time and again. With the right setup this is actually a very easy task.

[BudP]

Tbird,

Glad to be of assistance. I have searched for these type of screw clamps on many auction sites and I have only found one with a starting bid too high for my tastes. I think if one could find a screw with a handle, one could fabricate a decent holding device.

FWIW there is also another model I have seen: it is like a huge c-clamp with interchangeable bits at the bottom of the clamp's screw. The way it works is that the starter or generator tube is held in a vice: the bottom leg of the clamp is set at 180 degrees from the field screw: the clamp screw has the proper bit placed on the bottom of the turning screw: the turning screw top has a 1/2 inch square head which is grabbed with a large wrench and turned into the screw.

Regardless of the approach, the principle is the same = extreme downward pressure and a twist.

It would seem practical to me for a club to buy such a device to loan to members or to bring to their "small parts fix-up weekend."

Bud

[KMeredith87]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I don't think I have any starter brush installation pictures, but about a year ago someone had a problem, and he had installed the brushes 180* from where they should have been.

As long as the grounded brushes are grounded the the insulated are on the insulated brush holder then it shouldn't matter where they are placed as long as the grounded brushes are across from each other and the powered are across from each other correct? (This way its grounded insulated grounded insulated as you go around the end plate)