DIY Windlace

[dmaxweb]

All of the available windlace I've seen is expensive, not close to the original cloth, and has a 1/2" foam core. Has anyone just made their own? Use upholstery fabric, gray in my case, that is at least compatible with the interior and 3/8"OD thin wall EDPM rubber tubing for the core. Simple enough to sew. A fraction of the cost of ready made and for a driver, would seem like the way to go.

[Hoovercw]

I did. I used Nylon rope for the core. It bends the corners much easier than rubber or foam. I used a zipper foot on my sewing machine and just took my time.

[Bob Bidonde]

The wind-lace in my kit from Classtique has a core of clear nylon tubing.

[rotorwrench]

Nylon tube is very hard and solid. It doesn't give much when pressed against. Are you sure they didn't use vinyl tubing like Tygon? Soft flexible tubing is easier to finish the ends for both a capped effect and a joining of pieces at right angles to each other like Fordors have. EPDM tubingshould work fine. A person can use a rope inside the core if they want to preserve shape when sewing then pull the rope out when done or leave it if it feels right. The welt feet in 3/8" and 1/2" are available for all walking foot type sewing machines that I'm aware of. Regular sewing machines might be made to work OK but it's a lot easier with the walking foot types.

[Bob Bidonde]

I stand corrected. The wind lace from Classtique has a core of Vinyl Tubing, not Nylon tubing.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by dmaxweb

All of the available windlace I've seen is expensive, not close to the original cloth, and has a 1/2" foam core. Has anyone just made their own? Use upholstery fabric, gray in my case, that is at least compatible with the interior and 3/8"OD thin wall EDPM rubber tubing for the core. Simple enough to sew. A fraction of the cost of ready made and for a driver, would seem like the way to go.

We do. We make our own Windlace and Coachlace. I am in talks right now with a weaver about having the correct pattern material made for Windlace and Coachlace.


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[Ruth]

That looks nice Brent. Do you sell to the public or just use 'in-house' on cars you restore?

[Gary Karr]

I made mine on my early '28 Coupe just as Brent is making his. I used 3/8" vinyl tubing and died the coacklace to match the coachlace trim on the top of the door panels.

[dmaxweb]

I just got back from my local auto upholstery shop.
He has this fabric in stock. It's more gray than in the picture but that's what I want. Not quite the correct pattern but close enough for me. Most ready made windlace I've seen is $16-$18 per yard. In my case, a half yard of fabric plus 25' 3/8" OD EDPM hollow tubing for $18 from Amazon and I'm happy.

Forgot to mention, it's not a points car.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by dmaxweb

I just got back from my local auto upholstery shop.
He has this fabric in stock. It's more gray than in the picture but that's what I want. Not quite the correct pattern but close enough for me. Most ready made windlace I've seen is $16-$18 per yard. In my case, a half yard of fabric plus 25' 3/8" OD EDPM hollow tubing for $18 from Amazon and I'm happy.

Forgot to mention, it's not a points car.

No, I'm pretty sure you have made that abundantly clear to us!!

[dmaxweb]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

No, I'm pretty sure you have made that abundantly clear to us!!

But, unlike a points car, it's abundantly clear that it's fun to actually drive it without worrying about a speck of dust on the fender or you neighbor sneezing on it! For me, I much rather drive the car than look at a made in China plastic trophy on the shelf. To each his own where to spend time and money.

[dumb person]

I used hemp rope and off-cuts of cloth from the interior.

[dmaxweb]

Originally Posted by dumb person

I used hemp rope and off-cuts of cloth from the interior.

Very resourceful! Probably not the correct pattern fabric but I bet it functions well keeping the wind noise out.
Money saved on windlace = money to spend on beer. Cheers!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by dmaxweb

But, unlike a points car, it's abundantly clear that it's fun to actually drive it without worrying about a speck of dust on the fender or you neighbor sneezing on it! For me, I much rather drive the car than look at a made in China plastic trophy on the shelf. To each his own where to spend time and money.

Actually, based on your comments, I feel pretty certain that you have no idea what Fine-Point is about, ...and my observations as someone who has restored to both levels, you are making some assumptions that are highly erroneous.


It is not my desire to engage in a debate with you about this, but I can assure you that just because you drive your car does not substantiate that you have more fun than someone who has spent the effort to restore to a standard. I will also tell you that most Fine-point car owners I know generally do not put their trophy on a shelf. Instead it is usually on display in their garage, and they often get their trophy out and drive it some.


Additionally, I think one of the biggest misconceptions that you have is the reason why someone builds/restores to a standard. Using your Windlace as an example, ...you have taken the time to find fabric and you are fabricating your own product that you believe is closer to being authentic that what is commercially available. You are to be commended. As Gary stated above, he did the same as you except he took it to the next level as he had the fabric made in the correct pattern and then dyed it to match. I'm sure you will agree that you were just looking for the challenge to see if you could make your own Windlace. The same thing with Gary, except he extended his challenge to authentically replicate something in its entirety. I know I enjoy the challenge of replicating to a standard and seeing if I can bring it to fruition. So please understand that anyone that makes a derogatory statement towards someone who has taken the time to research and execute in order to replicate an item to exacting standards really is shallow in their thinking and is being very judgmental about something they truly do not understand. After all, there will always be someone who is a better craftsman than each of us, and each of us can always find a craftsman with less talent than we have. Ridiculing someone who is better, -or worse in talent than us is not the way we get more talent.

[dmaxweb]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Actually, based on your comments, I feel pretty certain that you have no idea what Fine-Point is about, ...and my observations as someone who has restored to both levels, you are making some assumptions that are highly erroneous.


It is not my desire to engage in a debate with you about this, but I can assure you that just because you drive your car does not substantiate that you have more fun than someone who has spent the effort to restore to a standard. I will also tell you that most Fine-point car owners I know generally do not put their trophy on a shelf. Instead it is usually on display in their garage, and they often get their trophy out and drive it some.


Additionally, I think one of the biggest misconceptions that you have is the reason why someone builds/restores to a standard. Using your Windlace as an example, ...you have taken the time to find fabric and you are fabricating your own product that you believe is closer to being authentic that what is commercially available. You are to be commended. As Gary stated above, he did the same as you except he took it to the next level as he had the fabric made in the correct pattern and then dyed it to match. I'm sure you will agree that you were just looking for the challenge to see if you could make your own Windlace. The same thing with Gary, except he extended his challenge to authentically replicate something in its entirety. I know I enjoy the challenge of replicating to a standard and seeing if I can bring it to fruition. So please understand that anyone that makes a derogatory statement towards someone who has taken the time to research and execute in order to replicate an item to exacting standards really is shallow in their thinking and is being very judgmental about something they truly do not understand. After all, there will always be someone who is a better craftsman than each of us, and each of us can always find a craftsman with less talent than we have. Ridiculing someone who is better, -or worse in talent than us is not the way we get more talent.

Not looking to debate or lecture you. It should be abundantly clear to us that for me personally my time and money is much better spent elsewhere. I have an appreciation for fine-point (I also have some plastic trophys) but it's just not for me. As I said earlier, to each his own.

[mike657894]

what was in there in my original interior looked like vacuum tube, but as a diy saver I would think a roll of clothesline rope would make a good substitute.

[Benson]

save S & H Green stamps

[burner31]

I drive my car almost every day and I do not freak out when I get a bug Splat, a little dirt or some rain on it.
I take my car to car shows and let kids sit in it and play with the steering wheel and Horn and have their pictures taken and I let old people sit in it and reminisce of the old days, I even take my dog with me when I go out to the store, to me that is a fine points car.

[dmaxweb]

Originally Posted by burner31

I drive my car almost every day and I do not freak out when I get a bug Splat, a little dirt or some rain on it.
I take my car to car shows and let kids sit in it and play with the steering wheel and Horn and have their pictures taken and I let old people sit in it and reminisce of the old days, I even take my dog with me when I go out to the store, to me that is a fine points car.

I agree 100%! I do all of the same things. Wonderful experiences all around.
With the money I just saved on windlace alone, I can take the grand kids for ice cream the rest of the summer and bring beer to the next five club meetings. Hopefully that will help the guys not deduct points.

[rotorwrench]

Most of the modern cloth that is woven as windlace with the two selvage edges seems to have a fairly raised weave to it. Worsted wool cloth does have an angular pattern to the weave of it but it's a lot flatter than the windlace cloth that I see out there. It would be interesting to see the original worsted wool windlace that Ford used to see how it looks. It' really wouldn't need a selvage edge on it either since that edge is usually hidden under the other trim.

The modern stuff resembles the stuff used later in the 40s & 50s but it's not quite the same as it either. Most folks have to take what is available but it would be nice to see if it could be fabricated more accurately to the OEM stuff.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by rotorwrench

it would be interesting to see the original worsted wool windlace that ford used to see how it looks. It' really wouldn't need a selvage edge on it either since that edge is usually hidden under the other trim.

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[Gary Karr]

Here are a couple pictures of original windlace out of a '28 Tudor. It actually does have two salvage edges.

[rotorwrench]

That is kind of a unique pattern by comparison to modern. It doesn't seem to fit the definition of "Worsted" but then how many folks then or now even know the types of cloth that came out of Worsted in the UK.

Thanks for those samples guys. I've not seen much original stuff down here unless it comes from out of state. Stuff lasted a lot longer in Kansas than it does down here but even then you don't always find cars kept well enough to have original materials in them.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

That is kind of a unique pattern by comparison to modern. It doesn't seem to fit the definition of "Worsted" but then how many folks then or now even know the types of cloth that came out of Worsted in the UK.

Thanks for those samples guys. I've not seen much original stuff down here unless it comes from out of state. Stuff lasted a lot longer in Kansas than it does down here but even then you don't always find cars kept well enough to have original materials in them.

I think the term Worsted really just means thick or heavy. I don't think it has anything to do with the pattern. The weight of modern windlace materials is much lighter in comparison. Unfortunately, I don't know if I will ever pull the trigger on having the correct style material made. Earlier in the summer I found a weaver that would replicate it however it was 1,000 yard minimum at about $5 a yard. I would basically need two colors and possibly three, ...and I was not 100% certain that they can hit the pattern exactly as it was in 1928-31.


As for original interiors, I have been fortunate to see quite a few come thru the shop over the years. For the past decade or so, I have been collecting original interiors that have come out of cars being restored to use as samples for us to replicate. Until I had those to compare against reproduction kits, I never realized just how inaccurate kits from places like LeBaron Bonney actually were. I told someone the other day that out of all the facets that make up Model-A restoration process, I felt that upholstery & trim restoration were probably the least known area if someone is seeking to replicate it accurately and authentically.

[ETAModel]

I worked as a trimmer for an upholstery shop as a teen; we did the interior of several "old" cars for a car lot...mostly 50's and older trucks, GMC mostly.
IIRC the boss used a matching material and something like clothes line. My job was to tack,nail,brad, glue, and/or screw the windlace in place.

She would cut out a 4" strip of material and could run out windlace faster than you could say "Bobs your uncle", lol.

If the shop had the material you'd think they could make enough on a lunch break to do a Fordor Sedan. I know my old boss could.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by ETAModel

I worked as a trimmer for an upholstery shop as a teen; we did the interior of several "old" cars for a car lot...mostly 50's and older trucks, GMC mostly.
IIRC the boss used a matching material and something like clothes line. My job was to tack,nail,brad, glue, and/or screw the windlace in place.

She would cut out a 4" strip of material and could run out windlace faster than you could say "Bobs your uncle", lol.

If the shop had the material you'd think they could make enough on a lunch break to do a Fordor Sedan. I know my old boss could.

Therein lies the problem, ...its that no one is manufacturing the windlace fabric that is close in aesthetics to what the original lacing looked like.

[rotorwrench]

To justify expenditures like that for materials, a person would need to be in a business like LB was unless a company has a lot of business in that specific model restoration. I think LB was happy just to get something somewhat close to the original. They may have been picky about in years past but not so much in more recent years. I've seen a lot of older restorations that have LB stuff in there. A lot of folks think it's original so that how much the average person knows about it. To get restorations exact adds a lot of expenditure to the restoration process. Not as many folks want to go that route.

I still have an old clutch motor but I went to an electronic servomotor for my old Consew sewing machine. That clutch motor was fast and feathering it was a bear. It's great for production work but for small stuff and leather work I needed to slow the damn thing down. Sewing something like windlace, a person could run through a long length pretty quick with a clutch motor.

[Jim Mason]

Here's the carpet edge binding and seat piping out of a may 28 Tudor.

[Standing Elk]

Well I am going, in the next few days, to the local upholstery shop and have her make mine. She said she has some very tough and durable material that should match my interior pretty closely, not worried about points. Since reading the above thread I plan on having her use 3/8 soft nylon rope as the filler and cutting the strips 4" wide. Should be fine and definitely will be better than the worn out windlace that it will replace. I will try and remember to post some pictures after it is installed. Thanks for the good info.

[Gary Karr]

The expense as Brent mentioned above to have the coachlace woven by a weaver will cover only a certain color scheme interior. Remember that there were blue, gray, brown, tan, and green tones if various Model A interiors. It's not a one type fits all.

[dmaxweb]

Originally Posted by Standing Elk

Well I am going, in the next few days, to the local upholstery shop and have her make mine. She said she has some very tough and durable material that should match my interior pretty closely, not worried about points. Since reading the above thread I plan on having her use 3/8 soft nylon rope as the filler and cutting the strips 4" wide. Should be fine and definitely will be better than the worn out windlace that it will replace. I will try and remember to post some pictures after it is installed. Thanks for the good info.

I'm doing the same thing for the same reasons. Only difference is I'm using this for the .38" core.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NL4DI7Y...k20872-20&th=1

I don't know about soft nylon rope but I suspect the durometer rating of EDPM hollow tubing is much softer (more pliable and compressible to provide a good seal). Just my 2 cents.

Anyhow, it's $18 for a 25' roll - plenty for 2 doors. Dropped the tubing off at the auto upholstry shop yesterday and will have it Monday. I've used him in the past so only a couple bucks for 24 running inches of 54" wide fabric (yielding six 48" pieces of windlace) that he had in stock and sewing it for free.