Part 2: KD 918 tool 0, guides 1. Another way to get the guides out?

[Tim Ayers]

I'm in the process of tearing apart a rather crusty 99A Merc block. Can someone refresh my memory on how to properly set up the KD 918 valve guide puller for removing guides?

Does the hardened foot go underneath the bottom of the retainer "cup" or do you push it in between the spring coils so it rests on the valve stem?

On top, the "socket" part goes over the valve head. Will it miss the seat or does it rest on the seat? I don't want to mess these up.

Lastly, these guides are crusty. I've been spraying them. Can you use a hammer to turn the handle of the tool or should it only be used by hand?

If this doesn't get them out, I'm planning to cut them and then drive the guides downward into the valley.

[Brian]

Tim, I always just push the tool in between coils of the spring and wind up....I wouldn't use a hammer on the handle. The 'socket' just sits on the block around the valve head; it won't damage the valve seat

[cas3]

Like Brian, I just jam it into the coils. I once had one that was fighting me, and during the act the socket thingy moved enough to catch a valve edge, which I then bent by not paying attention ! So...watch for that

[Tim Ayers]

Thank you, gentleman. It's coming back to me now.

[Mac VP]

One additional word of advice. When the guide is stuck tight, you’ll be tempted to increase the torque by adding leverage on the small turning handle. Don’t! Get it as tight as you can twist it by hand….then leave it alone….overnight if necessary. I can assure you that in most cases, the darn valve guide will be slightly loose the next day and will come right out. Be sure to flood the guide pocket the best you can with your favorite penetrant. If it’s still stuck you can try adding something that would keep tension on the handle for the overnight action. If you use some type of pipe extension to increase the leverage, you’ll most likely bend the short handle. They made it short for a reason.

[Mart]

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Definitely around the valve stem in between the coils. As said head won't hurt valve heads or seats. 1.5" valves only of course. I'm guilty of using a extension on the handle. I also give it a knock with a hammer on the body. It sometimes shocks the valve loose. Obviously the horse shoe clip must be out of the way first.

I'm not sure if the plate that fits around the valve stem is supposed to just coil bind the spring or press directly on the guide ends. I tend to fit it as lo0w on the coils as I can and coil bind the spring. My plate cracked so I took it off and put it on backwards, I think I put cotter pins in as rivets to hold it on.

Mart.

[Tim Ayers]

Thanks all. I'll get back at it in a bit. Glad to confirm I was using it correctly. This block is crusty and greasy, but if good, a 99A Merc is a great block to have in stock. I already have two cracked ones that need to be sent out for crack repair and sleeves. Fingers crossed this one is crack free.

[Tim Ayers]

OK, gentlemen. Coming back to this Merc 99A tear down for round two. I never would have thought the stud removal would be the easy part.


I've hit the guides every day since 12/10 with Free All and tried again this AM to get them out. The KD tool is not budging them. Confirmed that all of the horseshoe keepers are removed and none have a broken pieces still in the groove of the guide.

I'm going to try Mac's suggestion in post #5.

I don't need to rush this job, but I would like to get the valves out. I do have an All Power guide remover that works like a slide hammer to force two arms outward and push the guide up and out. Thinking of trying that tool next.

Another thought: Torching the valves in half, pull out the valve and drive the guide down with a drift.

Any other thoughts as to what I can try to get these guides out?

[KiWinUS]

Tim I am a very impatient person I ziz wheel the valves and springs remove top portion of valve and drive guide down. I always take the fastest approach. I’m never going to use any of the old valve train. Good luck mate.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

Tim I am a very impatient person I ziz wheel the valves and springs remove top portion of valve and drive guide down. I always take the fastest approach. I’m never going to use any of the old valve train. Good luck mate.

Haha. Leaning that. Like you, none of the valve train is reusable, so going to go your route I think

[Mart]

If cutting the heads off the valves, make sure you do not nick the valve seats with the cutting disc. Don't ask why I say this.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Mart

If cutting the heads off the valves, make sure you do not nick the valve seats with the cutting disc. Don't ask why I say this.

Good advice. Going to cut the centers of the assemblies inside the valley. Cam is still in so the lifters can't go down.

[rotorwrench]

Loosening the guide is more than half the battle if a person can get an offset guide punch around the valve then the guide just needs to be moved a bit to get the ball rolling. My All Power valve knocker will move them from the bottom in most cases but not all. This is another reason I prefer the 8BA types over the older types. Having removable keys, valve springs, and valves helps a lot. You'd think that two piece guides would come out easier but they don't. Too much stuff in the way.

I'm a believer in changing from mushroom tip valves with two piece guides over to the modern types valves, keepers, and guides. No one will ever judge you on this.

[Bored&Stroked]

I never use the older 5/16 valves anyway, so I've resorted to BRUTE force, and I get a big set of bolt-cutters, wedge the jaws between the springs and cut the stems. You better be in good shape - takes a lot of force.

Also, wear good eye protection - have had things fly all over the place! LOL

It doesn't take that long . . .

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

I never use the older 5/16 valves anyway, so I've resorted to BRUTE force, and I get a big set of bolt-cutters, wedge the jaws between the springs and cut the stems. You better be in good shape - takes a lot of force.

Also, wear good eye protection - have had things fly all over the place! LOL

It doesn't take that long . . .

Great idea Dale. Never thought of bolt cutters.
Tim just be cautious with ziz wheel not to cut oil tube. I use a long 90* Mac. Works great.

[marko39]

Another option that I have used is the sawsall with a 6” blade. Not too messy.

[hotcoupe]

What I used to do in the past, pry all the valves open one at a time, place a wood wedge or similar object between the valve and the seat on each valve, turn the block upside down so that the lifters would fall away from the cam, remove camshaft, use a wiz wheel to cut the head of the valve off, use a punch and big flipping hammer to drive the guide and valve remnants out. Always worked for me.
Tom

[Yoyodyne]

Originally Posted by hotcoupe

What I used to do in the past, pry all the valves open one at a time, place a wood wedge or similar object between the valve and the seat on each valve, turn the block upside down so that the lifters would fall away from the cam, remove camshaft, use a wiz wheel to cut the head of the valve off, use a punch and big flipping hammer to drive the guide and valve remnants out. Always worked for me.
Tom

This has become my way. The max gap of an open valve is about 7/16, so I've used 7/16" bolts, pieces of 7/16" wood dowel would probably make observers think I was less of a neanderthal.

A ball joint pickle fork works great for forcing the entire assembly upward, you don't have to worry about bending it. Protect the deck surface with something under the pickle fork. Sometimes you can break the head of the valve off with the fork and go right to the punch.
I use a 3' bolt cutter on the valves when necessary. It's tough to get to the end valves in the valley with either a bolt cutter or a wiz wheel. I've used a cutting torch, but the valves must have nickle in the alloy, they don't cut nice, and the greasy sludge fire is a PITA.
If you can budge the guide downward a little it moves upward much easier. The curved guide driver makes that easy, but I don't find them easy to acquire. A Model A driver will work if you shorten it. I tried to make one and failed, they need to be hardened to be strong enough to work. Chopping the valve head off and using a piece of heavy wall tubing as a punch or just a big punch always works.


I'm told a KD 917 tool will remove the guide clips without lowering the guide, if you gently apply many light taps on it, rather than go brute force and pound until it rips the hole out of the clip. I bought one but haven't used it yet.

[Ken/Alabama]

For the really stubborn valves I have one of the Hydramek tools for removing flathead valves and guides. It’s a small hydraulic Jack that gets under the valve stem . Has another tool with it for removing the horseshoe keeper also.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Yoyodyne

This has become my way. The max gap of an open valve is about 7/16, so I've used 7/16" bolts, pieces of 7/16" wood dowel would probably make observers think I was less of a neanderthal.

A ball joint pickle fork works great for forcing the entire assembly upward, you don't have to worry about bending it. Protect the deck surface with something under the pickle fork. Sometimes you can break the head of the valve off with the fork and go right to the punch.
I use a 3' bolt cutter on the valves when necessary. It's tough to get to the end valves in the valley with either a bolt cutter or a wiz wheel. I've used a cutting torch, but the valves must have nickle in the alloy, they don't cut nice, and the greasy sludge fire is a PITA.
If you can budge the guide downward a little it moves upward much easier. The curved guide driver makes that easy, but I don't find them easy to acquire. A Model A driver will work if you shorten it. I tried to make one and failed, they need to be hardened to be strong enough to work. Chopping the valve head off and using a piece of heavy wall tubing as a punch or just a big punch always works.


I'm told a KD 917 tool will remove the guide clips without lowering the guide, if you gently apply many light taps on it, rather than go brute force and pound until it rips the hole out of the clip. I bought one but haven't used it yet.

I have both the KD 917 & All Power clip tools. This was the first time using the All Power tool and I like it better than the KD.

Agreed about the torch. There is so much goo & sludge in the valley, it will be quite a mess. It's too cold to degrease and rinse it properly with a hose.

Going to try the extended reach whiz wheel approach. I'm fearful that the pistons are going to give me as much of a fight as this lifters.

I'll prod and scrape the water jackets at home and then I'll need to get the block cleaned the cheapest way first (high pressure wash) before pressure testing it.

I sure hope this block turns out to be good. This one has been my toughest one to date. All the previous blocks, the biggest battle was the studs. This one it's the lifters.