The Ford Barn

jrvariel48 · 11-24-2017, 03:55 PM

I've always had a problem with the drivers door on my coupe. I have to slam it to get it to close and when it is closed, the bottom sticks out (picture 1) and it looks like it hanging low (picture 2 & 3). There was definitely some work done to the lower hinge, because one of the flat head screws is now a hex head bolt. There also looks like there's a shim in there (picture 4)
I tried to turn the screws and the bolt and everything is frozen.
Any help would be appreciated.
PS, I still can't figure this picture thing out!!
Thanks, Joe

Mart · 11-24-2017, 04:10 PM

You need to investigate this very carefully. Close the door gently with the handle held down and see what is stopping it from closing. remove the striker plate or the latches if necessary.

With the door able to hinge freely, when it is closed, why is the bottom sticking out? is it because there is something at the bottom of the door or the frame fouling? If not, you need to twist the door. Put a baulk of timber in the top and push hard on the bottom of the door. Get tough with it, you need to bend it. if you can't get it to close cleanly and in alignment, see what is stopping it.

There is no keyboard answer to this, you need to get out there and see what is going on and if necessary, show it who's boss.

If it is low, jack up the rear end (use care) and bend that mofo upwards until it comes into alignment at the beltline. I'm worried that it looks tight at the top, it may not physically be able to go any higher.

Go at it careful and try not to break anything. The hinges need to be in good shape and not loose. The pillars and the areas of the door where the hinges attach need to be strong and not flexing.

You might not get it perfect but you should be able to get it better than it is.

Mart

Ed Pitts · 11-24-2017, 04:42 PM

The door on my 36 was cracked at the bottom on the inside the door part of the hinge. Would suggest to first remove the door card so you can see what is going on with the hinge when you close the door. I had to cut the inside bottom sheet metal to repair the crack. Then you can do as Mart says. Ed

Gary Tosel · 11-24-2017, 05:50 PM

I have a 36 Ford 5W Coupe that has a different offset dovetail on each side. Driver side is low set, while passenger side is middle set. There also is a high set dovetail both left and right available.

I did not know at the time, that these different dovetails existed, so I modified a center set to be a low set. This could be the cause of your misalignment in the vertical with the body lines. I later found the correct offset dovetail.

51 MERC-CT · 11-24-2017, 05:56 PM

Any door that I have seen that sticks out on the bottom when closed was due to the door being twisted (front to back).
And all that I fixed were done using a block of wood placed between the door and the rear door jamb just below the bottom of the window opening.
Then pressure is applied to the bottom of the door to twist it back to where it belongs.
Of course there are other factors to look for and correct but without physically
looking at the door it's impossible to do on a computer.

RalphM · 11-24-2017, 06:44 PM

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My 35 has some of the same issues, only the up/down alignment is good. Top half is ok, center is too far in, and bottom too far out. Door shuts ok.
I’m also trying to find the best way to tackle the problem.

flatheadmurre · 11-25-2017, 12:32 AM

From what i can see in your pictures the gap at top is very narrow at the same time the door is hanging low looking at lineup.
If that´s how it is you need more then adjustment...top of door the needs bodywork to fit the body.
Theese old cars have sometimes got a new door during their life and fitment for a driver wasn´t an issue...so now when we want to make the as pretty as possible we have to do the bodywork for the previous owners.

David J · 11-25-2017, 04:47 AM

If someone used a 4d door the upper lip in the rear half needs trimming .

IF THE FRONT VERTICAL GAP IS RIGHT trim the upper lip and shim the cowl up .

Frank Miller · 11-25-2017, 06:40 AM

Is this a running car or something you are restoring. Im trying to picture the operation of the hinge and think the hex bolt may be binding it. You have way more problems than that but that is where I would start. Are the hinge pins tight? If you remove the latch where does the door fall. It would seem that ideally you should be able to hold the door closed and get good lines.
someone suggested a shim under the cowl and it is possible the door opening is askew.

jrvariel48 · 11-25-2017, 08:27 AM

Thanks to everyone that responded! Seems like the first thing I need to do is get the screws and bolt out of the hinge? Are these hinges adjustable once loose?

jrvariel48 · 11-25-2017, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Miller

Is this a running car or something you are restoring. Im trying to picture the operation of the hinge and think the hex bolt may be binding it. You have way more problems than that but that is where I would start. Are the hinge pins tight? If you remove the latch where does the door fall. It would seem that ideally you should be able to hold the door closed and get good lines.
someone suggested a shim under the cowl and it is possible the door opening is askew.

Frank, the car is running and not under restoration. I just went out to the car to check the hinge pins, and when I lifted up on the door from the bottom, the bottom hinge seems to be pulling away from the pillar. I held it in place to see how it closed and it lined up perfectly. I'm think the hinge is the area I should focus on.
Thanks, Joe

Dak Rat · 11-25-2017, 08:43 AM

All very good advice, but if the door doesn't fit the hole no amount of adjusting will fix the problem. I have had to grind edges on these old ford doors and re-weld the raw edge because the door was just the wrong size to get a good gap.

RalphM · 11-25-2017, 11:28 AM

I have seen something similar done, but it involves slicing the door skin at the edge, then dollying to fit and reweld/ refinish. A lot of work!

jrvariel48 · 11-25-2017, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Tosel

I have a 36 Ford 5W Coupe that has a different offset dovetail on each side. Driver side is low set, while passenger side is middle set. There also is a high set dovetail both left and right available.

I did not know at the time, that these different dovetails existed, so I modified a center set to be a low set. This could be the cause of your misalignment in the vertical with the body lines. I later found the correct offset dovetail.

Gary, not sure which one I have, but when I lift the door and it closes into the dovetail, the body lines are correct. At this point, I assuming I have the right one, but I don't know that for sure.
Thanks, Joe

jrvariel48 · 11-25-2017, 05:34 PM

I was able to get the two screws and one bolt out. Unfortunately, two of the welded nuts came off in the process. The last one where the bolt was seems ok. I'll run a tap through it to clean it out and see how it feels after that. It looks like I'll be able to install nuts on the the two where the welded nuts came off. Even when I lift up the bottom and close the door, the bottom still sticks out and there's still some resistance when I try to close the door. Other than that, the door seems to fit in the opening. I'll try what was suggested with the wood and some massaging.

jrvariel48 · 12-03-2017, 08:01 AM

I made some shims for the bottom hinge to get the door to lift and fit better.
It seems the hinge pin is loose. I see Mac's sells an oversized pin. Is this the best way to repair a loose hinge pin?

19Fordy · 12-03-2017, 10:05 AM

Joe, truth is, in the long run, you would be better of repairing the A-pillar and the surrounding rusted out metal as well as the hinge and the door if needed. Weak metal just can't support a door properly. It will only get worse.

jrvariel48 · 12-04-2017, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Joe, truth is, in the long run, you would be better of repairing the A-pillar and the surrounding rusted out metal as well as the hinge and the door if needed. Weak metal just can't support a door properly. It will only get worse.

I believe you're right! Something I need to look at.

johnboy34 · 12-04-2017, 10:28 AM

The sticking out at the bottom is sometimes caused by the inner door skin spot welds broke along the edges of the door frame edges. With the inner door card off you can hold the door and pull the corner in and see it move. Not the cause of sagging,( that is pillar) and the pillar will not fix the sticking out, (that is the door).

jrvariel48 · 12-05-2017, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnboy34

The sticking out at the bottom is sometimes caused by the inner door skin spot welds broke along the edges of the door frame edges. With the inner door card off you can hold the door and pull the corner in and see it move. Not the cause of sagging,( that is pillar) and the pillar will not fix the sticking out, (that is the door).

Skin seems to be tight. Just looks like it's bent!

11-24-2017, 04:10 PM	#2
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,775	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight You need to investigate this very carefully. Close the door gently with the handle held down and see what is stopping it from closing. remove the striker plate or the latches if necessary. With the door able to hinge freely, when it is closed, why is the bottom sticking out? is it because there is something at the bottom of the door or the frame fouling? If not, you need to twist the door. Put a baulk of timber in the top and push hard on the bottom of the door. Get tough with it, you need to bend it. if you can't get it to close cleanly and in alignment, see what is stopping it. There is no keyboard answer to this, you need to get out there and see what is going on and if necessary, show it who's boss. If it is low, jack up the rear end (use care) and bend that mofo upwards until it comes into alignment at the beltline. I'm worried that it looks tight at the top, it may not physically be able to go any higher. Go at it careful and try not to break anything. The hinges need to be in good shape and not loose. The pillars and the areas of the door where the hinges attach need to be strong and not flexing. You might not get it perfect but you should be able to get it better than it is. Mart

11-24-2017, 04:42 PM	#3
Ed Pitts Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Irving, Texas Posts: 598	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight The door on my 36 was cracked at the bottom on the inside the door part of the hinge. Would suggest to first remove the door card so you can see what is going on with the hinge when you close the door. I had to cut the inside bottom sheet metal to repair the crack. Then you can do as Mart says. Ed

11-24-2017, 05:50 PM	#4
Gary Tosel Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,148	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight I have a 36 Ford 5W Coupe that has a different offset dovetail on each side. Driver side is low set, while passenger side is middle set. There also is a high set dovetail both left and right available. I did not know at the time, that these different dovetails existed, so I modified a center set to be a low set. This could be the cause of your misalignment in the vertical with the body lines. I later found the correct offset dovetail.

11-24-2017, 05:56 PM	#5
51 MERC-CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Hartford, Ct Posts: 5,898	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight Any door that I have seen that sticks out on the bottom when closed was due to the door being twisted (front to back). And all that I fixed were done using a block of wood placed between the door and the rear door jamb just below the bottom of the window opening. Then pressure is applied to the bottom of the door to twist it back to where it belongs. Of course there are other factors to look for and correct but without physically looking at the door it's impossible to do on a computer. __________________ DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES

11-25-2017, 12:32 AM	#7
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight From what i can see in your pictures the gap at top is very narrow at the same time the door is hanging low looking at lineup. If that´s how it is you need more then adjustment...top of door the needs bodywork to fit the body. Theese old cars have sometimes got a new door during their life and fitment for a driver wasn´t an issue...so now when we want to make the as pretty as possible we have to do the bodywork for the previous owners.

11-25-2017, 04:47 AM	#8
David J Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: St Croix Falls WI Posts: 2,080	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight If someone used a 4d door the upper lip in the rear half needs trimming . IF THE FRONT VERTICAL GAP IS RIGHT trim the upper lip and shim the cowl up .

11-25-2017, 06:40 AM	#9
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight Is this a running car or something you are restoring. Im trying to picture the operation of the hinge and think the hex bolt may be binding it. You have way more problems than that but that is where I would start. Are the hinge pins tight? If you remove the latch where does the door fall. It would seem that ideally you should be able to hold the door closed and get good lines. someone suggested a shim under the cowl and it is possible the door opening is askew. __________________ “The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound

11-25-2017, 08:27 AM	#10
jrvariel48 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,427	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight Thanks to everyone that responded! Seems like the first thing I need to do is get the screws and bolt out of the hinge? Are these hinges adjustable once loose?

11-25-2017, 08:43 AM	#12
Dak Rat Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Minot, ND Posts: 218	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight All very good advice, but if the door doesn't fit the hole no amount of adjusting will fix the problem. I have had to grind edges on these old ford doors and re-weld the raw edge because the door was just the wrong size to get a good gap.

11-25-2017, 11:28 AM	#13
RalphM Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: North Pole, Alaska Posts: 2,657	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight I have seen something similar done, but it involves slicing the door skin at the edge, then dollying to fit and reweld/ refinish. A lot of work!

11-25-2017, 05:34 PM	#15
jrvariel48 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,427	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight I was able to get the two screws and one bolt out. Unfortunately, two of the welded nuts came off in the process. The last one where the bolt was seems ok. I'll run a tap through it to clean it out and see how it feels after that. It looks like I'll be able to install nuts on the the two where the welded nuts came off. Even when I lift up the bottom and close the door, the bottom still sticks out and there's still some resistance when I try to close the door. Other than that, the door seems to fit in the opening. I'll try what was suggested with the wood and some massaging.

12-03-2017, 08:01 AM	#16
jrvariel48 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,427	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight I made some shims for the bottom hinge to get the door to lift and fit better. It seems the hinge pin is loose. I see Mac's sells an oversized pin. Is this the best way to repair a loose hinge pin?

12-03-2017, 10:05 AM	#17
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,996	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight Joe, truth is, in the long run, you would be better of repairing the A-pillar and the surrounding rusted out metal as well as the hinge and the door if needed. Weak metal just can't support a door properly. It will only get worse.

12-04-2017, 10:28 AM	#19
johnboy34 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Seattle Posts: 179	Re: How to fix a door that doesn't close tight The sticking out at the bottom is sometimes caused by the inner door skin spot welds broke along the edges of the door frame edges. With the inner door card off you can hold the door and pull the corner in and see it move. Not the cause of sagging,( that is pillar) and the pillar will not fix the sticking out, (that is the door).