crankshaft specifications

[George Miller]

A friend that has a engine we are building, has a new Burlington crankshaft.
We need the factory specks on the flywheel flange run out. Need to see if it is in specks.
If any one has them it would be appreciated.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by fordgarage

George,
I do not have them handy, but when I checked my Burlington, I could not really detect any runout, using accurate tools and layout. What are you finding?

Burlington counterweighted Crankshaft on Ford Garage
Vince

.002 at the timing gear,can live with that and .005 tir. at the flywheel flange. The rest of the crank looks real good. .005 is more than I like. The flywheel is turned dead on, I do not like run out.

[Tom Wesenberg]

.005" on the flywheel flange will make the flywheel quite a bit out. I seem to recall someone saying the flange should be less than .002".

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

.005" on the flywheel flange will make the flywheel quite a bit out. I seem to recall someone saying the flange should be less than .002".

.002 is what I was thinking also. To me .005 is a mile off, then to think he spent $950 for it.

[Kurt in NJ]

The Ford production spec from the print says less than .001 runout on the flywheel flange and timing gear boss, less than .0005 runout on the face of the flywheel flange

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

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Originally Posted by George Miller

.002 is what I was thinking also. To me .005 is a mile off, then to think he spent $950 for it.

I wouldn't except anything but 0 for any of it. Verns regrinds are perfect.

If it is not used, they would get it back, there is no excuse for that kind of work. .002 on the time gear area, No matter what you set your clearance to, you will be always .002 thousandths loose on one side, and .002 tight, on the 1/2 turn, on the other side.

This kind of crappy work has always been a Pet Peeve, and then who ever did it, still wants full price, and has a truck load of excuses why it should be all right. Go get them George. Thanks Herm.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

The Ford production spec from the print says less than .001 runout on the flywheel flange and timing gear boss, less than .0005 runout on the face of the flywheel flange

Thanks Guys yes it makes me mad. When I machined parts I always shot for .0000. Some guys goal was just to be in the ball park. You can see .005 on a lath if you are use to turning things.
Now I wonder if he will have to pay shipping if he sends it back, and will a different one be any better.

63 lbs bouncing up and down would not be a good thing.

[Flathead]

Could it have been dropped or damaged in shipping? I thought most people were happy with these cranks. Just wondering.

[James Rogers]

George, have you checked the FW housing for warp? I have found after 85 years the housings most often have some warp. This could be causing your runout. I clamp the housing, tranny side down to the bridgeport table and use a dial indicator in the spindle to measure runout on the housing/engine mounting face. I have used several Burlingtons and never had a problem with the crank, only the housings.

[George Miller]

Hi James I checked it on the bridgeport table with the crank shaft on V blocks. The OD of the flange is running out .005 TIR That is with the center line of the crank. I have not checked the face of the flange yet.

[James Rogers]

Nothing to do with the flywheel. Check the mating surface of the flywheel housing. If it is out you will get a false reading when you check run out if the housing is warped. I have found nice un-cracked housings with as much as .010 warp.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

James, I think you missed what George said. He has the crank out of the engine, and is checking it on a mill table, for Flange, and time gear area run out. That is a job done all by it's self.

Even if it was in the engine, it doesn't have any thing to do with the flywheel housing, when you are checking Crank Flange run out. Thanks Herm.

[James Rogers]

I did and I do apologize for the mistake. Thanks for the correction.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by James Rogers

I did and I do apologize for the mistake. Thanks for the correction.

I do the same thing all the time James, Herm.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

I do the same thing all the time James, Herm.

You got it Herm
I found a flywheel that is .002 tir on the OD when mounted and .001 on the face. Do you think it would be ok if the crank was balanced with the flywheel mounted to the crank.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by George Miller

You got it Herm
I found a flywheel that is .002 tir on the OD when mounted and .001 on the face. Do you think it would be ok if the crank was balanced with the flywheel mounted to the crank.

I was told by balancers, that an inline 4, the crank should be balanced individually, crank, Flywheel, rods, pistons ect. We have always balanced the Flywheel, and pressure plate together, as a unit. Also personal preference is also lightened flywheel, with a counter Balanced Crank, mooch--o better on the center main.

I am thinking if a flywheel is to be set off .005 thousandths, because of the off center flange, wouldn't the pilot shaft be off .005 thousandths, and being Eccentric, with the flywheel housing, going into the pilot bearing, and creating a bind?

It seams like if the First thing is off in a chain, every link after would have to be compensated for.

Maybe, J & M Machine, John the Balancer can weigh in here!! Thanks Herm.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

I was told by balancers, that an inline 4, the crank should be balanced individually, crank, Flywheel, rods, pistons ect. We have always balanced the Flywheel, and pressure plate together, as a unit. Also personal preference is also lightened flywheel, with a counter Balanced Crank, mooch--o better on the center main.

I am thinking if a flywheel is to be set off .005 thousandths, because of the off center flange, wouldn't the pilot shaft be off .005 thousandths, and being Eccentric, with the flywheel housing, going into the pilot bearing, and creating a bind?

It seams like if the First thing is off in a chain, every link after would have to be compensated for.

Maybe, J & M Machine, John the Balancer can weigh in here!! Thanks Herm.

Thanks Herm I think you are right.

[J and M Machine]

In regards to balancing the model A or T or any internal balanced engine you don't need to spin the crank and flywheel as an assembly.
Those parts should be balanced separate.
It seems this question comes up a lot as there is a misconception of the balancing of an engine.

If you can imagine in simple explanation that if you balanced the engine with the clutch and flywheel mounted; if something should happen to the flywheel or clutch/ring gear then the engine would have to come apart and be rebalanced again.

Doesn't make much sense does it??

Now when we do any engine being internally balanced like the Model A/T engines everything is balanced individually so that the crankshaft is balanced by itself and then the rods are weight matched, the pistons are weight matched and then the clutch/flywheel are bolted together and then spun and the material to make the balance comes off of the flywheel.
http://www.jandm-machine.com/balancing.html

[Chris in CT]

Hello George and others. Yes, the correct way to make these measurements on a crankshaft is indeed mounted in Vee-blocks on a flat stable surface. Z-axis runnout ("wobble") or perpendicularity of the flywheel flange should measure no more than 0.00025 inches. X/Y runnout of the flange should be measured at the four-bolt, two pin mounting pattern of the flywheel flange for centricity. This runnout should not exceed 0.001 inches. Please note that the OD of the flywheel flange does not necessarity conform to the centricity of the four-bolt, two pin mounting pattern!
If you know your flywheel to be true, then mount it on the crank flange and measure the assembly for runnout on the flywheel OD. If you have an 0.001 error on the flywheel flange, and an 0.001 error on the flywheel, it may be possible to rotate the flywheel 180 deg. on the bolt pattern and cancel out the error!
I checked this crankshaft out before it was shipped. It is possible that the crank was dropped during shipping - it really doesn't take a heck of a lot. If this crank is out of spec., please return it to me and I will supply you with a new one!

I wish you guys would hold off with your judgements and conclusions until you have contacted the producer of the product with which you have concerns, and seen whether or not these concerns can be properly and quickly addressed. This morning is the first I have heard of this problem - and, by the way, we have had three - yes, three, complaints since we introduced this crankshaft several years ago. All were instantaneously addressed and resolved to the customer's satisfaction, and frankly, guys, that ain't bad!

Chris Robinson, Burlington Crankshaft, LLC

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www.burlingtoncrankshaft.com

[George Miller]

Let me say my intention was never to make Burlington cranks look bad. In fact I wanted to get one for my home built cylinder head. I just wanted the Ford specks to see what they said about flange run out. I could not find it on the Burlington web site. This is very important because it pilots the flywheel the dowel pins are for driving, bolts keep it tight .

In fact the rest of the crank looks real good. Probably just a mistake by the grinder. But it is wrong, it is what it is.