56' 312 Oiler Tube Alignment in Shaft

[My Old Blue]

Received in some parts in to start work back up on my 56' 312 Country Sedan wagon. Ordered two new rocker shaft oiler tubes to replace the passenger side that was missing and the drivers side that was bent over.

What I found interesting is the tube I did have on drivers side looked nothing like what I ordered. I removed the original tube and and tried to place new tube into the top of the rocker and it would not press in and was obviously hung up on something down the hole.

Took a few pictures to show and it appears the shaft has turned or not installed correctly sometime in the past and not allowing the tube to press in all the way down to the flange, thus the hybrid tube I had on there?

My question: Could I simply loosen the rocker shaft clamps and re-align shaft so that the tube fits and re-torque down? Contemplating removing the rocker assembly and at least clean it up as I not ready for a complete overhaul.

Suggestions welcomed.

[streetdreams]

Yes you could. If you remove the assembly, make sure the oil feed hole from the head is feeding to the shaft through the shaft support. Check that the rocker arm oil holes in the shaft are clean . Wish I'd known you needed those spill tubes. I would've given you all you need. Don't use them on a rebuild. Prefer pressurized rocker assemblies.

[My Old Blue]

Originally Posted by streetdreams

Yes you could. If you remove the assembly, make sure the oil feed hole from the head is feeding to the shaft through the shaft support. Check that the rocker arm oil holes in the shaft are clean . Wish I'd known you needed those spill tubes. I would've given you all you need. Don't use them on a rebuild. Prefer pressurized rocker assemblies.

Awh man! Thanks, that would have been a great deal. I got hosed for like $8.00 each on the tubes and that was because I ordered for a T-Bird and if I ordered the tubes as a Passenger Car they were $14.95 each..go figure

Thank you for the advise.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by streetdreams

..... make sure the oil feed hole from the head is feeding to the shaft through the shaft support. ....

Here's a photo of where the oil feed holes are under the rocker arm stands. There's only one oil hole for each head / rocker arm.
.

[My Old Blue]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Here's a photo of where the oil feed holes are under the rocker arm stands.
.

Great reference picture. Thank you.

[miker98038]

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Streetdreams brought up a good point. A lot of us plug that hole, leaving a small orffice to bleed the air out. Those tubes basically dump oil down to the dizzy drive gear and timing chain. With modern parts and oil, it’s debatable about whether you need them. One of the guy’s over at http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/default.aspx has figured out how far to pinch the end, still flow a little oil, and pressurize the shaft. Might go over there and ask.

[My Old Blue]

Originally Posted by miker98038

Streetdreams brought up a good point. A lot of us plug that hole, leaving a small orffice to bleed the air out. Those tubes basically dump oil down to the dizzy drive gear and timing chain. With modern parts and oil, it’s debatable about whether you need them. One of the guy’s over at http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/default.aspx has figured out how far to pinch the end, still flow a little oil, and pressurize the shaft. Might go over there and ask.

Good info, I will go read up. Thank you.

[justold]

Originally Posted by streetdreams

Yes you could. If you remove the assembly, make sure the oil feed hole from the head is feeding to the shaft through the shaft support. Check that the rocker arm oil holes in the shaft are clean . Wish I'd known you needed those spill tubes. I would've given you all you need. Don't use them on a rebuild. Prefer pressurized rocker assemblies.

If you don't use the tubes what lubes the distributor gear and timing chain ?

[Ole Don]

My method oils what needs to be oiled, but takes longer than simply pinching the tube. I remove the tubes, and cut off the end with a tube cutter to get a square end. I cut them as close as possible to the end. Then I debur the inside of the tube, and the ID is the correct size to tap for 10-24. I tap them about 5/8 inch, then debur the end again. I take a 10-24 x 1/2 Philips head screw and clamp it gently in the drill press vice, then drill a hole all the way through the screw. The Philips head will center the bit for you. I used anywhere from a 1/16 to a 1/8 bit. The causes pressure to all the rockers, and puts oil where it needs to be for the timing chain and the dizzy gears. I have pictures of the rocker shafts after many thousands of miles, they look as new.

[My Old Blue]

Great solution! Pictures please.

[streetdreams]

The spillover oil from lubricating the rocker arms is plenty to lube both the dist gear and timing chain. Tim McMaster shows this in a video he has of a running engine with pressurized rockers. More than enough oil flowing along the cylinder head to lube everything.

[Crankster]

You can still find rocker assemblies for not too much money or build up your own, the problem was poor oiling, and poor oils. Heavy galling on the lower side of the rocker shafts and rocker arms is pretty much guaranteed.

[streetdreams]

Poor oiling, poor oil, agreed. The issue of pressurized , semi pressurized or original spillover has been beaten to death many times. Modified shafts with slotted lower oil holes for rocker lube and a fully pressurized rocker shaft assembly, along with numerous lube system modifications to both block and heads, are my recipe for a happy Y Block. JMHO

[My Old Blue]

Disassembled a set of rockers today and did see galling on lower side of rocker shaft. What did puzzle me was the added numbers that are stamped on rockers aside from the part# 5751066. Was seeing that every rocker had a 2 to 3 digit number stamped on adjuster flange. Does it mean something?

[My Old Blue]

Originally Posted by My Old Blue

Disassembled a set of rockers today and did see galling on lower side of rocker shaft. What did puzzle me was the added numbers that are stamped on rockers aside from the part# 5751066. Was seeing that every rocker had a 2 to 3 digit number stamped on adjuster flange. Does it mean something?

Think I answered part of my own question..maybe. Found on Mummet's site I have 58-64 Self locking 1.43:1 Rockers. Go figure and par for the course with my wagon. I learn something new everytime I dig deeper: 56'wagon, 312 57 block, 56 heads, 58-64 rockers, crossover single exhaust.

[streetdreams]

ECG's are 1.54. I once worked on a '57 TBird 312 with a 1.43 shaft on the left and a 1.54 shaft on the right.

[My Old Blue]

Originally Posted by streetdreams

ECG's are 1.54. I once worked on a '57 TBird 312 with a 1.43 shaft on the left and a 1.54 shaft on the right.

Safe to say any rocker with ECG 6564 no matter what year Ford it came out of I can use? I ask because I'm looking and found several assemblies that the sellers would say came out a 60' Truck or 272-292. I have a 312.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by My Old Blue

Safe to say any rocker with ECG 6564 no matter what year Ford it came out of I can use? I ask because I'm looking and found several assemblies that the sellers would say came out a 60' Truck or 272-292. I have a 312.

The 1.54 ratio ECG rocker arms were apparently originally available (only) in '56/'57, see the link below... Most likely to be found in Thunderbirds and 'Thunderbird Special' engines in full sized Fords.
I'd also expect to find them in the 4bbl '56/'57 Mercury 312's.
'56 & earlier rocker arms had a lock nut on the slotted adjusting screw, '57 & later are self locking.

IF rocker arms are original to an engine '58 or newer they should be 1.43's. But given the number of years since new you can't be sure of what someone may have put in.
Mis-matched sets are quite common and can turn up in almost any y-block engine.
What matters is their condition and the casting number on each rocker arm.

http://ford-y-block.com/rockerarm.htm
.

[My Old Blue]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

With as many years since new and the number of times most of these engines have been worked on... it doesn't really matter what the seller says they came out of. What matters is the casting number on each rocker arm.
Mis-matched sets are very common.
The only other difference is the earlier rocker arms had a lock nut on the adjusting screw and the later ones ('57+) are self locking.

http://ford-y-block.com/rockerarm.htm
.

I have that link bookmarked and I suspected my thought process is correct. Thank you for confirming.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by My Old Blue

.... par for the course with my wagon. I learn something new everytime I dig deeper: 56'wagon, 312 57 block, 56 heads, 58-64 rockers, crossover single exhaust.

With the number of hands that have been in these cars over the years I'd bet a paycheck that it's MUCH more likely to find mis-matched parts than original.
In my own 'digging deeper' example I went back 10 yrs and 2 owners for information that the car was claimed to have it's original '55 292.
But it doesn't matter what the seller says...
The engine was really a '54 Merc 256 with a few shiny Thunderbird parts on it.

[Crankster]

Some have experimented with different rocker arm ratios either 1.5s on the intake, or maybe the exhaust. Arguments for both I guess.

There is a firm, Rocker Arm Specialties, that will rebuild them by installing a bushing and refacing the tips. Interestingly while this is (or was) a common practice the shop manual specifically warns against the latter, cautioning instead they should be replaced. Can't see why unless the surfaces are hardened and even so it sure doesn't seem to be a problem.
The 1.43 ratio rockers seem to show up on that auction site fairly regular, if careful can get them reasonable. I opted for US made rocker shafts just because.

[paul2748]

I checked this out - 10-24 machine screw and tap are too small for the tube.

12-24 seems to be about right

Originally Posted by Ole Don

My method oils what needs to be oiled, but takes longer than simply pinching the tube. I remove the tubes, and cut off the end with a tube cutter to get a square end. I cut them as close as possible to the end. Then I debur the inside of the tube, and the ID is the correct size to tap for 10-24. I tap them about 5/8 inch, then debur the end again. I take a 10-24 x 1/2 Philips head screw and clamp it gently in the drill press vice, then drill a hole all the way through the screw. The Philips head will center the bit for you. I used anywhere from a 1/16 to a 1/8 bit. The causes pressure to all the rockers, and puts oil where it needs to be for the timing chain and the dizzy gears. I have pictures of the rocker shafts after many thousands of miles, they look as new.

[My Old Blue]

Originally Posted by paul2748

I checked this out - 10-24 machine screw and tap are too small for the tube.

12-24 seems to be about right

I ended up following the 10-24 route offered by Ole Don. I did find when I cut off ends with tube cutter the end flared some. Tapped and had trouble getting threads cut at beginning of tubes due to flare.

I rummaged tthrough shop and found some slotted 10-24 x 1/2 and drilled a 3/32" hole through them. Felt 1/8" was too large of a diameter and a 1/16" too small and went ahead and drilled all three sizes for kicks.

I found it was hard to screw the screws into the tubes and made for a snug fit. Then I reduced the screw head diameter to reduce the profile.

[Crankster]

Thanks for the illustrations, have been meaning to do this.

[KULTULZ]

I came across this post while searching for something else-

Originally Posted by My Old Blue

Received in some parts in to start work back up on my 56' 312 Country Sedan wagon. Ordered two new rocker shaft oiler tubes to replace the passenger side that was missing and the drivers side that was bent over.

What I found interesting is the tube I did have on drivers side looked nothing like what I ordered. I removed the original tube and and tried to place new tube into the top of the rocker and it would not press in and was obviously hung up on something down the hole.

The install is missing a key part (PN BASIC 6575) to properly locate and anchor the pipe-